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#12204066 - 08/12/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk

I realize being new, I can't count.


You don't count for lots of reasons, but being new here isn't one of them.

CMG 300 BP
#12204069 - 08/12/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk

I realize being new, I can't count.


I knew you couldn't spell but, honestly, I just assumed you could count.

#12204311 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk
Agreed. I said you could use both.


But as for my time here, just because I just joined doesn't mean I picked up a gun a yesterday. Just as you guys more likely picked up a rifle before you joined.

I do points and a magnifying glass. The points are lined up with the rifle's axis, and come to a point. To be extra careful you could do both. But I assume they come with points for a reason. I am not convinved you guys have re-invented the wheel. Flame away all you want. No one has provided an article.

What we have is you saying articles are just dummies writing stuff. Which can be turned around, if you are able to debate. But I will put weight on what the industry does. For my needs point and magnifying glass I suspect is good. I would suggest magnification either way. But since I just got here, I can't possible know anything.

Could you place the two bars in a position where the they are perpendicular to one another and still have the points meet exactly?

Yes, you could.


"...the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.." - Thomas Jefferson, 11/13/1787



#12204520 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Magnumdood]  
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Originally Posted by Magnumdood
[qu


Could you place the two bars in a position where the they are perpendicular to one another and still have the points meet exactly?

Yes, you could.



No you couldn't. They wouldn't touch. One would just be touching one sie of the other. Being point they don't have sides, just trying to dumb it down.


No one is going to tell you, yuo are a moron for even trying use this argument?

Using the flats, and being extra careful, probably works. I don't believe there is a case where that coud be off, and points line up. Points come the tip of the axis,which is what some one tried saying is the point of flats.


Either way will tell you if off alot. I am going to use what the pros use. Next time I will look both ways for amuzement.


Either way, if you really want to know you have to shoot, and than see what happens when you try walking it. Put your target up using a level.


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12204563 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Zerk,

Here's a quote from a chapter of a book called MODERN HUNTING OPTICS, and the chapter is an extended version of an article published in a major American shooting magazine: "Just because two dogs touch noses doesn’t mean their bodies line up. A pair of cone-type alignment rods can work, but only if a straight-edge is placed alongside both rods--or the rods are turned around so their flat ends butt against each other."

If you can't imagine two dogs touching noses, take two sharp pencils and place them on a table. Note that they do NOT have be perfectly in line for their tips to touch. In fact they can be at 90-degree angles to each other.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12204583 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Jeff,

An aluminum scope tube has PLENTY of flex, one reason ring-screws shouldn't be over-tightened, because beyond a certain point the tube will bend and not flex.

I once bought a new rifle that came with a new 3-10x Swarovski Z3. This was a package deal in a major firearms/gunsmithing store in a big Texas city. When I took the rifle to my range for the first time, the scope wouldn't adjust correctly, so I decided to replace it. It took so much effort to back off the ring-screws that they made an audible CRACK when they finally broke free, and when removed the scope has two visible "waists" where the rings had been. However, it did work correctly after the ring-screws were backed off to 20 inch-pounds.

I have run into this several times with scopes installed by supposedly professional gunsmiths, as well as many amateurs. Have even seen variables turned into fixed-powers by over-tightening ring screws. Usually the tube will spring back all right once the rings are loose, but not always. It depends on the thickness of the scope tube, and how hard the installer tightened the screws.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12204661 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Zerk,

Here's a quote from a chapter of a book called MODERN HUNTING OPTICS, and the chapter is an extended version of an article published in a major American shooting magazine: "Just because two dogs touch noses doesn’t mean their bodies line up. A pair of cone-type alignment rods can work, but only if a straight-edge is placed alongside both rods--or the rods are turned around so their flat ends butt against each other."

If you can't imagine two dogs touching noses, take two sharp pencils and place them on a table. Note that they do NOT have be perfectly in line for their tips to touch. In fact they can be at 90-degree angles to each other.

I get the point. But if you look at them closely, I say they will be lined up. Otherwise the tips will not be fully touching. Just a portion of each. Tips can only touch when they are aligned, otherwise you are off to the side of one of them. They are a fine point, lined with the center of the rod. Not big fat dog nose.

But it is probably good to flip it around and look at it both ways. Like I said I use a magnfying glass.


No, they are not fully touching when perpendicular. Stick your fingers together.


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12204668 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk
Stick your fingers together.


Pull my finger. Then "bask in my glow."



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12204829 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Mounted a set of Leupold QR this morning. Alternated holes to 15 inch/lbs. Then took one out at time and put some blue loctite on. Back to 15. Than did all 4 20, and 28. In the past I wasn't putting locker on rings, but decided to here. In the past I probably should have been tqing more often. I think I was actually way under tighening. I thought I was doing the opposite.


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12204872 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Modern Hunting Optics... I wonder who wrote that?
wink

You're a good man, John. We're lucky to have you.

#12204949 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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If a member wrote it, than it's tainted. Plus some joe blow wants to write about technical stuff. A good hunter may not be the most technically minded person. Conical points can only meet in one place. Myself, I make my living off things being technical and correct. People talking about points being able to meet at 90 degrees, proves my point.


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12204962 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Zerk,

I'd already concluded that you're a troll, but it took longer to fully confirm you're a nitwit.


John

"Gunwriters, as you know, aren't as informed as their readers are and if it wasn't for the readers, there would be no need for writers..."--Shrapnel, May 2015
#12204969 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk
Mounted a set of Leupold QR this morning. Alternated holes to 15 inch/lbs. Then took one out at time and put some blue loctite on. Back to 15. Than did all 4 20, and 28. In the past I wasn't putting locker on rings, but decided to here. In the past I probably should have been tqing more often. I think I was actually way under tighening. I thought I was doing the opposite.


Ring screw torque specs are typically given for dry assembly. Wet (lubricated) assembly, whether lubricated with oil, grease, powdered rosin, teflon, silicone, uncured thread locker, etc., results in greater strain on the fastener at any given dry torque setting. Your torque wrench measures the amount of energy used to install the fastener. Threaded fasteners are designed to stretch during assembly like a spring. If over tightened, the fastener will permanently deform, like a sprung spring that no longer returns to its original shape. Lubticating a threaded fastener reduces the amount of energy required to stretch the fastener during assembly. To this end, if fastener torque specs are given for dry assembly, reducing torque wrench settings during lubricated assembly will achieve adequate fastener stretch without exceeding the material's elastic threshold. The degree to which lubricated settings should be reduced depends on the quality of the lubricant.

#12204976 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Zerk,

I'd already concluded that you're a troll, but it took longer to fully confirm you're a nitwit.


I already concluded that he acts the fool on purpose because no one acts that stupid except on purpose.

In that respect, he's brilliant.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12204980 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: kingston]  
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Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by Zerk
Mounted a set of Leupold QR this morning. Alternated holes to 15 inch/lbs. Then took one out at time and put some blue loctite on. Back to 15. Than did all 4 20, and 28. In the past I wasn't putting locker on rings, but decided to here. In the past I probably should have been tqing more often. I think I was actually way under tighening. I thought I was doing the opposite.


Ring screw torque specs are typically given for dry assembly. Wet (lubricated) assembly, whether lubricated with oil, grease, powdered rosin, teflon, silicone, uncured thread locker, etc., results in greater strain on the fastener at any given dry torque setting. Your torque wrench measures the amount of energy used to install the fastener. Threaded fasteners are designed to stretch during assembly like a spring. If over tightened, the fastener will permanently deform, like a sprung spring that no longer returns to its original shape. Lubticating a threaded fastener reduces the amount of energy required to stretch the fastener during assembly. To this end, if fastener torque specs are given for dry assembly, reducing torque wrench settings during lubricated assembly will achieve adequate fastener stretch without exceeding the material's elastic threshold. The degree to which lubricated settings should be reduced depends on the quality of the lubricant.

Damn that is correct, and I forgot. The lube allows them to tighen further.

I am using it short range, so hopefully ok. But will have to keep track of this scope, and pay attention next time I use it. Hopefully didn't do damage.


I knew this from working on engines, but forgot to carry it over.

Last edited by Zerk; 08/13/17.

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#12204989 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: smokepole]  
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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Zerk,

I'd already concluded that you're a troll, but it took longer to fully confirm you're a nitwit.


I already concluded that he acts the fool on purpose because no one acts that stupid except on purpose.

In that respect, he's brilliant.

Please explain to me, how a point can touch in any more then one spot?


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12204998 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk

Please explain to me........


Sorry, no matter what the subject that's an impossible task.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12205000 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: wareagle700]  
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Lubing the bases makes more sense, since you cannot check them with scope on. Rings can be checked. My mistake. First time putting lube on rings. I don't think it is awful, but tq value should be backed down.



http://warnescopemounts.com/do-i-need-threadlocker/
We recommend all bases being mounted to a firearms receiver use a non-permanent threadlocker, which is typically a blue or purple color. A firearm barreled action is under immense stress when it is fired. This creates shock and vibration which can loosen the small screws that are commonly used to mount bases to the receiver. A small application of threadlocker, and the proper torque of no more than 25 in/lb (steel receivers only) will ensure that the base screws stay tight, even on the harshest recoiling rifles.

threadlocker

Warne does not recommend the use of threadlocker on our rings. When a threadlocking compound is applied to screw threads, it can act as a lubricant. When you torque lubricated threads vs. torquing dry threads, when using the same amount of torque, more pressure will be put on the scope tube due to the lubricated screw being easier to tighten. We recommend 25 in/lb of torque for all Warne rings, and that torque spec is intended for dry threads. If threadlocker was applied to the threads, and the ring was torqued to 25 in/lb, there is potential for scope tube damage. An easy way to make sure you are tightening mounts to the proper torque is to use the Warne TW1 torque wrench. It is preset at 25 in/lb with a T-15 Torx bit for easy installation.


Judge a man not by his friends, but his enemies.
#12205009 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Jeff,

An aluminum scope tube has PLENTY of flex, one reason ring-screws shouldn't be over-tightened, because beyond a certain point the tube will bend and not flex.

I once bought a new rifle that came with a new 3-10x Swarovski Z3. This was a package deal in a major firearms/gunsmithing store in a big Texas city. When I took the rifle to my range for the first time, the scope wouldn't adjust correctly, so I decided to replace it. It took so much effort to back off the ring-screws that they made an audible CRACK when they finally broke free, and when removed the scope has two visible "waists" where the rings had been. However, it did work correctly after the ring-screws were backed off to 20 inch-pounds.

I have run into this several times with scopes installed by supposedly professional gunsmiths, as well as many amateurs. Have even seen variables turned into fixed-powers by over-tightening ring screws. Usually the tube will spring back all right once the rings are loose, but not always. It depends on the thickness of the scope tube, and how hard the installer tightened the screws.


I lap most of my 1" rings, never original Weavers, before I use them and I've put a dent or two in alloy scope tubes, but I've never had a Warne ring come loose on the base when the top screw(s) were tightened, with or without a scope installed.

I have one of the 25 inch pound T-15 torque wrenches that Warne sells, but if more torque is needed, I could put a cheater bar on the "L" shaped Torx wrench that typically comes with newer bases and go "farmer tight".

#12205061 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk
If a member wrote it, than it's tainted. Plus some joe blow wants to write about technical stuff. A good hunter may not be the most technically minded person. Conical points can only meet in one place. Myself, I make my living off things being technical and correct. People talking about points being able to meet at 90 degrees, proves my point.



Further proof that you do not know as much as you think you know.

#12205071 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: GeorgiaBoy]  
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Originally Posted by GeorgiaBoy
Originally Posted by Zerk
If a member wrote it, than it's tainted. Plus some joe blow wants to write about technical stuff. A good hunter may not be the most technically minded person. Conical points can only meet in one place. Myself, I make my living off things being technical and correct. People talking about points being able to meet at 90 degrees, proves my point.



Further proof that you do not know as much as you think you know.

Again, explain to me how two points can meet when not aligned?

I think the flats, should tell you too. But that the points won't work, is silly. That points can line up 90 degrees is simple minded. The points are on the same bar as the flats


They sell them with points for a reason. Would be cheaper to make them without the points.


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#12205081 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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Originally Posted by Zerk
That points can line up 90 degrees is simple minded.


Points don't line up, they touch. What's behind them (the bars) can be oriented in many different configurations with the points touching.

You're simple minded. Or at least work very hard to appear to be.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#12205085 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Mule Deer]  
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Zerk,

I'd already concluded that you're a troll, but it took longer to fully confirm you're a nitwit.


I think he is Llama Bob reincarnated.


There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man.
#12205089 - 08/13/17 Re: Warne Maxima Ring Issue [Re: Zerk]  
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The proof that you do not know as much as you think you know is in the following statement:


Quote
If a member wrote it, than it's tainted. Plus some joe blow wants to write about technical stuff.

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