Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Low loading 17 hornet.

Thought I was posting here. Turns out I've posted in the image gallery. Down to 7.6 of LilGun and apparently a long way off where I want to be.

You're hoping for a very reduced load in the 17 Hornet? Li'l Gun isn't the powder for that. Do you have any fast flake powders, as in Unique or faster? How about Titegroup? I use Titegroup in reduced loads in 17 Mach 4 to get to HMR speed and stellar accuracy with 20gr bullets. Have quite a bit of experience with working up reduced loads. Certain powders certainly work better than others. Reducing a full-power powder in an attempt to produce decent reduced loads seldom works. The burn rate is too slow.

Check the other 17 Hornet thread in this forum ...

I agree. I have some Trail Boss put aside for me but it's an hour away. I finally got the chance to go last Saturday and they were early closed. I know the heavier weight bullet, the easier my aim will be but cost wise I won't give up on the little 17gr until I reach it's limit. It's five times cheaper than anything else and the smaller footprint alone makes the crack quieter. Not sure about the wind factor but I just need 150yds. The bullet is the same as used in the HMR and I've put it through the software (forget which) and it's supposed to still be stable at 1000fps. Don't necessarily need subsonic but quieter and even with the 7.6 gr loads that made those holes it's getting there.
Can anyone tell me the Trail Boss equivalent of 7grains of LilGun?

Sig: I read everything I can get my eyes on regarding 17 Hornet.

Here are 2 Powders I've worked with so far:






And this one

Now that's what I call data! Thanks Lane.

Some useful stuff there.Was there any particular reason for choosing the middle of the road Blue Dot (50) and the Steel (59) on the burn rate table when most advise faster powders for low loading such as Titewad (6) Red Dot (8) Titegroup (14) and Trail Boss (19)? I wish someone would come up with low data for these powders, especially for the 17grain Vmax bullet. There's absolutely no info for this little bullet. Whether it can be low loaded or not I will find out eventually.

I would have thought the Vmax would be more BC efficient than the hollow point but you're showing the opposite. We don't get Dogtown bullets over here.

How do you find the noise on the low loads? I know you can't take out the crack. Do you use a surpressor

There was plenty of data from Seafire on Bluedot with .223, but I couldn't get any at the time--Thanks Obama--
So I tryed STEEL first, and it worked fine in .223, and .243. Then I tryed it in 17Hornet.
I like these middle powders cause they are "Fluffy" and take up alot of the case space/high volume.

Finally got some Bluedot and ran it in 17hornet above. Was a little surprised at the lack of velocity with equal weight loads compared to slower burning STEEL. But it worked well. And I had run out of Rem 7.5 primers, so that could have also influenced the performance.

I like to think that the fluffy powder is safer to load, because of the fill ratio. With out my notes in front of me, I do remember that a full case of STEEL is about 8.5 grains to the very top of the mouth 17hornet. Blue Dot was more.

I plan on testing more Bluedot with these same componets, cause there is a little more room past 6.5grains that looks doable.
Also will run tests with Bluedot at 20grain Vmax's too

No suppressor yet! But 4.5 -5.5 grains of powder is same sound as 17HMR.

Trail Boss is supposed to be a very bulky powder. Apparently it's donut shaped and fills the case well. When I do get my hands on some of course i'll let you guys know how it goes.

I started off with Fiochi primers and they were ok but once they were gone I've only been able to get CCI 400s and they seem ok also. Of course I don't know if something else will make a difference.

I had a great day on Saturday. I was amazed at the holes in that plate when I was wondering if the bullet was going to exit the barrel. It was also my first go at fire forming after I'd necked down and annealed some 22 Hornet brass and everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. Big smiles all round.

I've just got a second farm permission to shoot and on Saturday using the Hornet and 22lr my buddy and I shot about 25 rabbits including three we couldn't retrieve. Then on the way home we went to a cricket pitch I look after. Not that big but the guys are well pissed off with the rabbits digging it up. We didn't even have to open the gate. There were five of em chewing on the short tasty turf and the Hornet took em all in about ten minutes. By that time it was around 400am so we went home tired but happy and I didn't have to make up an excuse to the five dogs as to why there were no rabbits this time.

Of course my project is going in the opposite direction to most folk. I'll always carry full loads for the distance shots and the foxes but I'm trying for the quietest load I can find for the night time bunnies where you can take out 3/4 at a time if you don't scare em off. I don't believe in killing for no reason. I only headshoot to avoid spoiling the meat. This means I restrict the 22lr subsonic to around 70 yds and I do ok but if I can get an extra 80 quiet yds I'll be like a dog with two tails.

Sounds like you are having lots of fun! Hodgdon lists the rule for loading Trail Boss in any cartridge right here:
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

Thanks for that but I'm sceptical about hodgdon data. For LilGun especially, I've read many times that reloaders can't get near Hodgdons data for the 17 Hornet without pressure signs.
I've just measured my case capacity with LilGun and and it came out at 12.8grains. 70% of that is 8.96grains (someone correct me if I'm wrong math is one of those dark places in my head). Maybe the 70% rule doesn't apply to LilGun.
When I started I used 9 grains with the 20gr Vmax and that was good enough for me. Since then I mainly use the 17 grain Vmax at the same 9 grains and it's good. The one round I chronoed came out at 3623 with the 17 gr bullet.
Iirc "Point of impact", one of the guys on YouTube that like longer range rabbit shooting is using 8.9gr behind a 20gr Vmax to good effect.
Hodgdon doesn't list 17grain bullets but their starting load for the 20gr Vmax is 9.7 and max is 10gr. The load that put those holes in that plate was 7.6gr with the little 17gr bullet.
I've come to the conclusion that the only way to find out how low I can go is to do go down steadily and hope that I have enough common sense to not get a bullet stuck in the barrel :-(

toxo,

It does sound like you're having fun!

I tried Trail Boss in my CZ with 20-grain V-Maxes, and results were not nearly as good as with 5744--though admittedly I was looking for a .17 Mach 2 equivalent load.

First, Trail Boss is indeed doughnut shaped, but flat doughnuts that are pretty wide. It's VERY light for the volume. Filling a fired case to the base of a seated bullet would be, per Hornady's directions, resulted in 3.5 grains for a maximum load, and 2.5 for a starting load. the .25 grai charge got around 1200 fps, but accuracy was poor, so I tried the maximum. It put 5 rounds into about an inch at 50 yards, but velocity spread was around 200 fps, while averaging about 1700. Oh, and Trail Boss is a pain to get inside the .17 neck. I had to pinch some between thumb and finger and dribble it slowly into the funnel.

7.0 grains of 5744 got right around 2100 fps, and grouped into about an inch at 100 yards. Velocity spread was still fairly large, at 68 fps, but I only intended to shoot to around 125-150 yards with the load, as that's the most effective range of the .17 Mach 2. Beyond that the .17 HMR works more consistently, especially in any sort of wind.

I shoot 22 rimfire level 55 grain cast loads in the 22 Hornet with Lil'Gun. 5.5-6.0 grains seems to be a sweet spot level. (The Little Dandy #5 rotor just happens to throw a decent load.) The very important detail is the primer. CCI 450s give very decent, consistent groups. Others simply scatter the shots.

I've not tried reduced Lil Gun in any cases. My brother uses it in full power cast loads in 22 K-Hornet and 221 Fireball, with bullets 45-60gr. He's not had great luck finding reduced load powders that produce good results. I'll tell him to try 450's.

In all small cases, my reduced load powder is Tîtegroup with jacketed bullets. Cast bullets have sometimes been more finicky, but Titewad, Unique, and BlueDot have worked well for 22lr to 22 mag loads. The reduced loads mimicking rimfires are far more accurate than any rimfire I've ever owned.

Mule: sigh. Just when I thought I'd found THE powder. What was the noise like with those loads? and was that moderated or not?

Klik: Have read about people using this or that primer but no-one has put it like that. Will certainly look into it. Just thinking about it how much does the primer contribute to the noise?

Hunt: Can you elaborate on that last? Which reduced loads are we talking?

One thing I forgot to mention is the moderator. I know a lot of you guys can't use em but everyone uses em over here. I think part of my problem is the fact that my Moderator, a GenV Hardy is not caliber specific being rated from 17 to 30 cal. It does a reasonable job but I'm thinking a caliber specfic mod will do a better job.

The noise level with Trail Boss is usually very low, even without a moderator, because of the small weight of powder used.

Update.
Went to play with the bunnies again last night. The usual 9grains of LilGun behind the 17gr Vmax accounted for about half of the twenty bunnies including four that we couldn't find. The rest fell to the .22lr injected by either my 1417 Annie or my buddys Ruger semi.

I took the LilGun down a couple of steps lower. 7.2grains and 7grains behind the little 17gr bullet. Both sailed right through the aluminium plate so I know I can go further. getting quieter all the time.

Apart from the six low loads all were fire forming loads with 9grains of LilGun. I was amazed again at the accuracy of the fire forming loads with the best shot going to my buddy at 170yds using my 17 Hornet. Not easy at night. He's like a dog with two tails at the moment cos he's got his variation accepted and will take possession of his own 17 hornet in three weeks time.

Got some Trail Boss today so unsure whether to continue with low loading with LilGun. I guess I will carry on even if to find out which is the more accurate.

After a couple of goes with the Trail Boss recently I went out last night With 10 Rounds of 17 grain boat tailed bullets and 10 rounds of 20 grain flat based Vmax both loaded with 1.8 Grains of Trail Boss.
Didn't have much time and lost the light which meant shooting into a woodshed with a torch lighting up the target. No Chrony either. The results were a bit mixed with slight rain and a wind that was up and down. From around 50yds the 17 grs were very impressive with a five shot string but the 20 gr not so much. I then went back to around 100yds. thr results were pretty inconclusive. Needed a few more rounds. I also had a couple of strange results from a couple of the 20s, almost like squibs with very low noise and a long lock time.
There was enough in the little 17gr to keep me excited because at the price, this is the round that I'd like to work. The noise level was very low. Much lower that HMR. So much so that with just a little more powder I'll have the 100yd quiet round that I've been looking for.
Can't wait for the next time when I'll have enough rounds, enough time and the Chrony F1.

Will be very interested in your chronograph results!