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#12209036 08/15/17
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...about calling it quits with the Campfire. What started out as a venue for discussing guns, shooting, hunting, fishing has turned into an alt-right platform for a lot of venomous attacks on people for no reason other than that they're different. The Hunter's Campfire forum has devolved into a nest of vipers, bigots, and narrow minded-ness. That doesn't define the folks here on our Savage forum, don't get me wrong- I love you guys! I just can't identify with a web site that is so mean spirited. That isn't me. Any of you who know me will agree that I'm a pretty laid back and open minded kind of guy, willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, sees humor in the foibles of mankind, and willing to admit when I am wrong.

There are those who frequent this web site who feel the need to politicize everything, who hate the majority of U.S. citizens (who don't fit their narrow definition of "correctness"), and who simply hate because, well, that's what haters do.

The internet has revolutionized communication, and all too often has become a substitute for personal analysis. Vile ideas can take root and grow at the speed of light, literally.

Right to free speech you say? Absolutely, but that right doesn't extend to yelling fire in a crowded theater, or using that right to abrogate other's rights. The Supreme Court has ruled thusly.

So, I'm thinking of packing up my bed roll and finding other more sunnier climes before the mast head sports an image of a white-hooded "patriot".


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
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I really am thinking the same thing. We need to find away to keep in touch though. Has any one tried the ignore mode here to lower the troll density?


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In essence, I agree with all you say Gary. I used to look at other forums on the 'Fire but gave it up altogether. I see no reason to toss the baby out with the bath though. I restrict my viewing to the Savage forum and let it go at that. I have no desire to expose myself to yet another internet venue where such behavior will occur sooner or later.

Keep it simple and ignore that which offends you is my solution.

With that, and 5 bucks, you can get a coffee...


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No doubt plenty of right and left stupid on the campfire. Can't fix stupid, but we have an ignore button to make it go away. Need a way to boot those that have an over abundance of ignores against them, myself included. Appreciate your contribution's to the threads and hope you will remain. GW


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There's no question that the vitriol has worsened and accelerated, not only here, but in every public forum, and it is largely built on the built-in anonymity of internet chat-sites..., but leave the 'fire? Ya can't! We need You!

How about just not viewing or contributing to those threads? How about being the voice of reason and responsibility that calls out those that hide behind their internet masks. We could boycott those threads and draw attention to a more balanced response..., or maybe start a new gun and knife forum for ourselves.

I suspect the campfire is ultimately a victim of it's own success, having reached it's own tower-of-Babel critical mass, it must fall.


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I fully understand your feelings. The main Hunter's forum has become a joke with the amount of over the top racism on display, a good chunk of those guys would be kicked off of any other site. Probably have a couple dozen on ignore and there's probably 50 more that should be. Other forums aren't so bad, this one is definitely one of the best.

I suppose there will come a time to divorce myself from a website if it starts picking up a reputation as a home for white supremacists. I don't know if we're at that point or not, definitely not in respect to this forum.


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I'm outta here too gnohaaa,Good Luck

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I agree with Lightfoot, ...baby/bath water.

Small man big type syndrome is lame.
The number of sites I participate in is a very low single digit number for that reason.
The Savage Collector forum is self patrolled fairly well with an occasional show of "passion".

I've tried to persuade folks to clean it up on some other sites. In person you have a chance, typing is futile unless you possess the "user delete" button.


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I have never used the "ignore" button, for I always felt every man is entitled to his say. Perhaps I really should re-think that.


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Everybody needs to do what they feel is best.

Just because somebody in my town isn't on par with my viewpoints doesn't mean I am going to move out of my town. If you avoid the areas that posts this stuff, you will almost never see it. My gut tells me that you went looking for it, found it and now telling us what you are going to possibly do. My suggestion is to keep out of the Hunters Campfire section and you will almost never see what bothers you. Ever.

For me, I am staying because I like it. Met some fantastic people here. When that changes, I am history.

I use the Ignore Button often. A man has a right to write and say what he wants. You have my vote on that one. But he doesn't have a right for me to listen or read what he has to say. They know who they are.


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Also...

Losing you Gary would be a big loss for the Savage Collectors forum. And I am sure the other areas of the site that you participate in. You have a wealth of knowledge that a lot of people have used to their benefit.


"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.

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I really haven't much of an idea of what is currently going on in other sub-forums, for years I have seldom looked beyond this one because of what I saw in them years ago that I didn't like. I had participated in several forums on different sites years ago but found them all lacking in knowledgeable people and in content, it is unfortunate that what is going on outside this group may cause some to leave, I know some have already left or seldom participate anymore, but when doing a search for Savage information a high percentage of the information found links back to this site, and many of the other links are not worth reading.

Through here is where much of the new research has came from and where much of the old has been compiled, corrected and added to.

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This is the only forum on the 'Fire that I read. I look at forums like listening to the radio, if I don't like it, I change the channel or turn it off. The only reason that other stuff survives is because there are enough idiots to feed it. Cut that off, and it withers and dies.

I enjoy reading here and don't post often, but you leaving will leave a hole that will be hard to fill.

Hope you change your mind.

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Gary you would be a Great loss here! , but I have to say Iv also been thinking of leaveing. going to stick it out awhile longer, but getting tired of the internet, and this site is hell on Computers. Take care friend!


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Gary, you and I have never had a conversation, but I must tell you that I'm eternally amazed at your knowledge and insight about all things gunny ... and especially Savages.

No matter what you decide about your continued presence on this forum, please know that you have my utmost respect.

And, yeah, I agree with you about the 24HCF. It has devolved into slime pit and most of the wonderful camaraderie that we had many years ago is now gone. The Savage Collectors forum is civil, but only because you guys are the best!!!!

I seldom post these days. And when I do, I'm usually verbally attacked in short order. Personally, I wonder about the motivation there ... maybe hated of gun writers, successful folks or whatever.

Anyway, Gary, I simply had to tell you that you have my respect and I totally admire your knowledge and many wonderful skills. I consider you a friend that I've never met.

All the best,

Steve Timm


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I just tend to ignore the the one that blather the most. Still a trove of knowledge on her so I try to absorb some of the good stuff.


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Don't let people run you off, it just gives them a win.

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I for one would be hugely lonely and lost if the good people with knowledge packed up and moved to another mountain

Yes there is a lot of tripe on any forum these days, people have lost the art of face to face communicating but still need to feel important
like being on a committee some people love the sound of their own voice

The ones talking about packing up their bed rolls are the ones that I listen to and being half a world away where else do I go for the knowledge
that you good people are willing to share

Sometime one just has to roll the eyes up uderstanding that hopefully the children will one day mature

Cheers from down under
Graham


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I'm also one who limits my participation on this website, with the majority of my attention paid to the Savage Collectors forum. It's crazy, but it seems like those who need it the most never learn to hit the kill switch in their skulls for voicing their inner monologues. Best of luck in your decision but know that your contributions will be missed if you decide to follow the path out of here.


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
...about calling it quits with the Campfire. What started out as a venue for discussing guns, shooting, hunting, fishing has turned into an alt-right platform for a lot of venomous attacks on people for no reason other than that they're different. The Hunter's Campfire forum has devolved into a nest of vipers, bigots, and narrow minded-ness. That doesn't define the folks here on our Savage forum, don't get me wrong- I love you guys! I just can't identify with a web site that is so mean spirited. That isn't me. Any of you who know me will agree that I'm a pretty laid back and open minded kind of guy, willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, sees humor in the foibles of mankind, and willing to admit when I am wrong.

There are those who frequent this web site who feel the need to politicize everything, who hate the majority of U.S. citizens (who don't fit their narrow definition of "correctness"), and who simply hate because, well, that's what haters do.

The internet has revolutionized communication, and all too often has become a substitute for personal analysis. Vile ideas can take root and grow at the speed of light, literally.

Right to free speech you say? Absolutely, but that right doesn't extend to yelling fire in a crowded theater, or using that right to abrogate other's rights. The Supreme Court has ruled thusly.

So, I'm thinking of packing up my bed roll and finding other more sunnier climes before the mast head sports an image of a white-hooded "patriot".



GARY, you're one of the last reasons I'm still here! You're an absolute hoot to read, seem to be a hell of an individual, and I enjoy your posts VERY MUCH. Guys like you make the forum interesting and informative. I also complimented Calhoun the other day for tirelessly welcoming new posters and answering questions so reliably. He's one of the first that welcomed me back in the day and he's still doing it. Mr Reliable. While we all have our little disagreements, not many take it too far, and most are eager to make amends. The one's that can't make amends I say good riddance. Miserable SOB's anyway. You know who you are.


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It would be a shame to loose any of the folks that frequent this savage forum . have you ever watch star trek.. the borg ? Well we are a collective and if anyone leaves us , knowledge will leave to .. I' m sorry see anyone leave . there's still new people coming along now and again. I've been coming here for years now I've gotten to know some of you and others I know of . I'll keep checking out this forum... in hopes of learning more new stuff .

Good day Gentlemen
Paul


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Gentlemen, I thank you from the bottom of my .22HP barrel! I despise inequity, and though it pains me to be a member of a site that revels in that more and more (NOT this forum), I see that I was erroneous in my decision. I had no idea that my words carried such weight. I feel humbled in y'alls presence.

Let's strive to keep this little jewel of a forum alive. We have a good thing going, and I apologize if I threw a damp towel on things.

If you guys were here right now I would open the fridge and offer beers all around. (As long as the three bottles of Shiner Bock in there lasted. grin )


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Few, you had me worried. If you moved on to another mountain, who would I sit next to at Barley and Hops? I was showing signs of with drawl, hope you don't mind, I snuck a Shiners out of your trunk before you left :D, Joe.


I'm not greedy, I just want one of each.

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Gentlemen, I thank you from the bottom of my .22HP barrel! I despise inequity, and though it pains me to be a member of a site that revels in that more and more (NOT this forum), I see that I was erroneous in my decision. I had no idea that my words carried such weight. I feel humbled in y'alls presence.

Let's strive to keep this little jewel of a forum alive. We have a good thing going, and I apologize if I threw a damp towel on things.

If you guys were here right now I would open the fridge and offer beers all around. (As long as the three bottles of Shiner Bock in there lasted. grin )


Now you're talking sense.

Gary, WELCOME BACK!


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Gary, Since I never look at any of the other forums, I wondered what in the heck you were talking about in your first post. I didn't know these other forums were like this. I don't think what the others are saying is any reason to leave this forum. David


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I don't read any of the other Forums but have been hearing of what's posted on some of them. We have been pretty lucky so far in having few problems on the Savage Collectors Forum. We do have one thing that the other Forums don't. As a moderator (I think I'm the only Forum moderator) I have the ability to edit or delete what is posted on the Savage site. I use the option sparingly but I have used it.

I think we have a great group here and should be able to keep it that way. If you see something posted on the Savage Collectors Forum that is out of line let me know. I don't want to see any of you leave. You are all like family. And, we still have things to learn!


Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Gentlemen, I thank you from the bottom of my .22HP barrel! I despise inequity, and though it pains me to be a member of a site that revels in that more and more (NOT this forum), I see that I was erroneous in my decision. I had no idea that my words carried such weight. I feel humbled in y'alls presence.

Let's strive to keep this little jewel of a forum alive. We have a good thing going, and I apologize if I threw a damp towel on things.

If you guys were here right now I would open the fridge and offer beers all around. (As long as the three bottles of Shiner Bock in there lasted. grin )



Glad you're sticking around Gary. It wouldn't be the same without ya.


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Originally Posted by JoeMartin
Few, you had me worried. If you moved on to another mountain, who would I sit next to at Barley and Hops? I was showing signs of with drawl, hope you don't mind, I snuck a Shiners out of your trunk before you left :D, Joe.


Geez, Joe. I woulda given them all to ya!! I haven't touched a one since I've been home. (I simply don't drink when home alone.)

As an aside, Joe is a great traveling companion. He never once commented on my farts during the four hours each way.


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+1

"GARY, you're one of the last reasons I'm still here! You're an absolute hoot to read, seem to be a hell of an individual, and I enjoy your posts VERY MUCH. Guys like you make the forum interesting and informative."

Some days it feels like the world is getting smaller and there are less places to find refuge from the insanity. This Savage forum has been and still is one of those relatively safe places in the storm. Lately, I have been going downstairs to visit the gun-safes more often to check out the Savages arms that remain. These guns are still great handmade hunting artifacts from another age. I hold a great many memories of meeting some of you folk at the first two Savagefests, and learning how ignorant I am in the world of guns and collecting.

Whenever a new jewel falls into my hands I know this is a great place to post and learn more about said firearm, whatever the maker.

Thanks to all of you who contribute to making this a special place on the web.

Cheers.

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Had the opportunity and privilege to meet Gary for the first time last Saturday. It would be a terrible loss to all of us...

I'm sure Gary will rethink his position and think of all the great people he has met as a result of his participation here and all the great people he will not have the opportunity to meet in the future if he just gives up and throws in the towel.

You are not a loser until you give up hope.

Right Gary?


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I Just Wish we could reverse ignore as in prevent the trolls from viewing.


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I still lurk here. Prety Much the only place that I do. For the reasons that others have stated. Thank you Gary. +1 to you and every other post/poster on this thead thus far.

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Yay Gary is staying!! I have had the pleasure of meeting Gary twice now. He is one hell of a guy. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and stories with us. Looking forward to our next meet. Hang in there buddy.

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Gary,

This is a quote from a conversation you and I had some years ago:


"I don't go around trying to be funny, it's just that as I get older I see the absurdity of taking life too seriously. I guess a little humor dropped here and there greases the skids of everyone's life."

Remember?

Doug


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Don't go guys. I've never posted here before but I often lurk here to get away from the insanity being posted on the other forums. Won't you please stay.

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Without knowledable collectors like gnoahhh and Calhoun, how are new collectors like me going to learn anything? Posts from those two members and others are what makes these boards great.

No reason to be down. Idiot have been and always will be....around. Technology has just made it easier to identify them.

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan
Gary,

This is a quote from a conversation you and I had some years ago:


"I don't go around trying to be funny, it's just that as I get older I see the absurdity of taking life too seriously. I guess a little humor dropped here and there greases the skids of everyone's life."

Remember?

Doug


I do remember that, Doug. Thank you for reminding me. Sometimes the black dog of despair nips a little too close at my heels, and I need to be reminded of who I am. So I turn and kick that dark beast right the hell in the chops and get on with being who I am.


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gnohhh,

So many great people have left the campfire, you should not be one of them.

Doc

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My pleasure Gary. Thanks for sticking around a little longer.

Doug


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We have never met. You have, however added answers to some of my questions here, the only site at this campfire that even look at, and you are certainly one of the many 'EXPERTS" that look to in any topic I peruse. I came to this site strictly for information regarding Savage 99 rifles. I get it here, nowhere else because you guys have the answers and I respect that. I don't post much because I don't know much about these fine rifles, but I do enjoy the talks here and I learn a lot. This is a great bunch of people and I enjoy coming here and relaxing while reading about my favorite long guns.


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Any man who quotes Pogo in his signature line is ok in my book! Don't be making yourself scarce!

As far as my expertise goes, I'm a rank amateur compared to about a dozen other guys here. Furthermore,none of us is infallible, and we all continue to learn- quite often from newbies.


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I too only read this forum and feel like I have known some of you all my life. I look forward to Garys observations and besides who else has played with Krags, Springfields, Mauser, Hi-Walls and many more + Savages? I have only met Joe and Roy {Fireball 2} and I enjoyed their company. There is so much help and knowledge on here that is irreplaceable and its FREE.

Mike


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I will never forget you explaining what a Troll was 2 me. I am honestly amazed they beat u down, but my wife introduced me the psychological profiling of narcissism, which I believe a lot of the I call them " hover trolls" I.e. Trying to be .in every thread. Perhaps I am narcissistic my self but some times I have a hard time letting an debate go. It takes away time I do not need to waste. So I gotta get better at dealing with it. I am beginning to believe it may be best to leave ones mouth shut and let them wonder if you are an idiot.....than open it and remove all doubt.

BTW the ignore is a pretty cool option you can still see what the troll said if you want.

But a reverse troll would be better IMO.

However it is so bad out on the other sights I doubt this place is going to expand and maintain sponsors. I am personally going to quit poking around the other sights big time.


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After reading the responses to gnoahhh's thread I went over to look at the hunting forum. Do those guys actually ever talk about hunting? I'll stick to this forum and the good company it keeps.


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Wow.

Last edited by Angus1895; 08/18/17.

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
...about calling it quits with the Campfire. What started out as a venue for discussing guns, shooting, hunting, fishing has turned into an alt-right platform for a lot of venomous attacks on people for no reason other than that they're different. The Hunter's Campfire forum has devolved into a nest of vipers, bigots, and narrow minded-ness. That doesn't define the folks here on our Savage forum, don't get me wrong- I love you guys! I just can't identify with a web site that is so mean spirited. That isn't me. Any of you who know me will agree that I'm a pretty laid back and open minded kind of guy, willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, sees humor in the foibles of mankind, and willing to admit when I am wrong.

There are those who frequent this web site who feel the need to politicize everything, who hate the majority of U.S. citizens (who don't fit their narrow definition of "correctness"), and who simply hate because, well, that's what haters do.

The internet has revolutionized communication, and all too often has become a substitute for personal analysis. Vile ideas can take root and grow at the speed of light, literally.

Right to free speech you say? Absolutely, but that right doesn't extend to yelling fire in a crowded theater, or using that right to abrogate other's rights. The Supreme Court has ruled thusly.

So, I'm thinking of packing up my bed roll and finding other more sunnier climes before the mast head sports an image of a white-hooded "patriot".

Thought the very same thing. There are a LOT of good people here though. No sense letting the jerks take charge....

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Originally Posted by S99VG
After reading the responses to gnoahhh's thread I went over to look at the hunting forum. Do those guys actually ever talk about hunting? I'll stick to this forum and the good company it keeps.

I just realized I've only checked out that forum once or twice. Just hopped over there. Don't plan to go back. At least if someone calls me a Jerk over here, I know they mean it in a good way, ;), Joe.

Last edited by JoeMartin; 08/18/17.

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Been busy catching fish last couple days so just got on and "what the heck is going on?"
Glad its settling down and Gary, you are still with us!
This is the only forum I look at. Time wise and quality wise. Just don't have the time to waste looking at garbage.
And I wish a few of those who left will come back! Maybe you are peeking and come back?


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Gary, just want to say that if I have ever contributed in any way to the feeling that you wanted to leave i am truly sorry. i have been caught up in some of the bs on the hunters forum at times. i generally go there in hopes of actual hunting talk but find it hijacked by politics mostly.
i hope you never leave this forum as it would leave a gaping hole in the good guy's here. i have learned and avoided disasters of my making by listening to you guys. which proves that one is never to old to learn and one can learn something from everyone.
tom.


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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I hope you change your mind and stay. We haven't ever had a conversation and I'm not particularly fond of Savages but I enjoy the experiencs you wright about. I would lose a lot of insight you give in your posts.


Molɔ̀ːn Labé
Grandpa:the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Dad:son you have 2 choices for supper eat or don't eat.
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