Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Base/Rings Advice

I have sevaral model 70s on which I am upgrading or moving scopes. In taking off the old scopes, I was surprised at the amount of ring marks. All of them use Leupold standard mounts. I noticed the windage screws were loose on one as well. I will be replacing the front base on one long action with an extension base and want to switch out the extension bases on a short action as well. The new scopes will likely stay on the rifles for a long time, but resale is definitely better if you can avoid ring marks.

Recently I mounted a scope on a Marlin 336 using Warne detachable rings and an EGW base. I like the setup and felt it was easy to do a good job with the mounting. Also have used Burris Z rings on a Weaver base on a 10/22 and like that setup as well. It seems to me that the Leupold bases are harder to work with and to get a good result.

I actually kind like the old school look of the Leupold Standard bases, but the Warnes are nice and the Zee rings are fine too. I would use 2 piece bases on the M70s, non-detachable ring

I suspect it will cost about $50/rifle to switch x 4 = $200. What do you think - keep using the Leupolds or switch them out, and with what?

I never cared for the Leupold type standard bases. Sure, I used them on several guns for a while, but eventually did away with all of them. Just another weak link in the system, and the drifting windage can really torque a scope tube, especially if the front dovetail is very tight, which it should be. The screws are difficult to tighten fully without buggering (Brownells does sell special screwdriver tips just for these). There is really no need for the rough windage adjustment (although I did need it on a Win. 70 that had crooked screw holes, but that was the only exception.)

Warne is a good, solid system, in both permanent and detachable. Talley's are excellent, but certainly more pricey.

A lot of people seem to like the Talleys. I have no experience with them - are they much improved from the Warnes?

For windage adjustable and dual dovetail Redfield type mounts:
1. Make sure rings are aligned and coplaner
2. Lap the rings with a lapping bar
3. Touch up lapped surfaces with cold blue
4. Lightly dust the rings with powdered rosin,
5. Torque ring screws gradually alternating as you step up torque to 15-18lb/in.

I started using the Weaver bases/Burris Zee rings about 15 years ago and and use them exclusively since. They have been very straight with none or very little lapping of the rings needed with the exception of the nickel plated rings that were a mile off..........


Casey

Kingston, do you like the Leupold system?

One advantage that Warne / Weaver systems seem to have is that it is pretty easy to take the scope off and then remount it, even if they aren't the QD rings

Vertical split rings systems are my least preferred. That said, IMHO, on traditional styled rifles Talleys are a more attractive option than than Warnes. Functionally, in the quick release variety, Warne is the superior ring. I can't get over the fact that Talley QR rings are made such that they sit off center on the bases and thus will never sit directly over the bore. I've asked Talley numerous times why they chose to do this and have never gotten an answer.

Leupold windage adjustable mounts are a Redfield type system made by Leupold.

That depends.
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alpinecrick's suggestion of Burris Zee Rings with inserts eliminates most of the variables that the steps I outlined above address.

Any particular reason for your dislike of vertical split rings?

Which horizontal split system do you prefer?

Regarding vertical split rings, my preferences are outlined in the passage you cited.


I dislike them in general because they're a PIA to install, especially if you want to get everything right. In this context 'getting it right' means ensuring against ring marks on spendy scope tubes. I prefer TPS weaver compatible Al rings on weaver style bases. Warne recently came out with a weaver compatible horizontal split ring (Mountain Tech). I haven't tried them but SamO on here had positive reports. Leupold PRW and QRW rings suck.

Please educate me - what are "TPS" and "AI"?

I know what PIA is - I'm being one. 😁

TPS is a manufacturer of optics mounts.

Al is atomic number 13 on the periodic table.

An acquaintance recently mentioned he likes his Mountain Tech rings. They sound interesting. Might have to try some........


Casey

Ah, ok, I thought your message meant ai not al. Thank you very much. That should be enough info to keep me busy for a while. Thanks.

Thanks, you guys gave me some good input.

Any issues with durability on the see ring inserts?

As long as you have the legacy windage adjustable mounts on a few rifles, you should go through them, give them a thorough inspection, and see if you can perfect their installation. It would greatly inform your perspective.

Get a quality set of alignment rods and a lapping bar.

I may try that and it would be a worthwhile exercise, but the last time I messed with them is kind of what got me started on the path of changing them out. It is always good to learn, but the Weaver-based system seems easier to get a good result without specialized tools. As I recall, I had some trouble tightening the windage screws without torquing the rings, putting them out of square with the action - perfect way to set up ring marks

Where is powdered rosin available?

Fine powdered rosin: Midway, Brownells, Amazon, Walmart.com. I apply it with an little artist paint brush.

Should you choose the adventurous route, the lapping bar and alignment bars will be useful down the road.

If you want easy, Burris Signature Zee rings or Burris Signature rings, both have polymer inserts.

Never had a problem with the Talley vertically split rings, they are my favorite set up. Have them on several rifles, and have never had them mark up a scope tube.

Also, the Talley "quick release" vertically split rings ARE centered directly over the bore. You need to go to the Talley website and take a closer look at their pics. Not hard to see that they are centered(the lever sits out slightly further but the ring itself is centered on the base and sits directly over the center line of the action.).

Talley vertically split are "hell for stout", classy looking, and less bulky than the Warne maxima rings.

Yes, they do take a little extra effort to get a scope reticle lined up straight the first time you use them, but as with anything new and unfamiliar, once you've done it a time or two it's not that difficult.

Leftybolt

Talley QR rings are made off center. Consult the following images and then call Talley for confirmation should you require. At one time Talley disclosed such on their website. I'm not sure if this is the case anymore. Pictured are multiple ring and base combinations. In several pictures a feeler gauge is shown clamped between the lower ring mating half surfaces for illustrative purposes. The feeler gauge extends the centerline out over the base mounting holes, which are centered on the bases.

The level of knowledge on this site is amazing.

A couple other options - how do you guys feel about Talley Lightweights and Leupold Dual Dovetails?

On a classic blued M70 in a wood stock. DD or Leupold QR would look good

Pretty sure I am going either QR or S&K on my 700 CDL . I will not buy Talley rings ever again ,

I love the Talley two piece. I have st least a dozen sets. They aren't hard to install in my opinion.

Slope77,

I stand corrected. Kingston has proven me wrong(thanks for the clarification). The Talley quick-release are slightly off-center(though you'd never know it from the pics on their webpage). Wonder why they did that when they clearly could make them centered?

Having said that, the Talley fixed, vertically split rings are centered and will serve you well on your Model 70s. I have them on 3 Model 70s, 1 Rem. 700, and 2 CZs and they are excellent!

Leupold Dual Dovetails would be a good setup also as mentioned above. They too can be used without marking up a scope tube if you are patient and take the time necessary to get them turned into the dovetail perfectly straight(which is doable without having to lap, but does take a sharp eye and a steady hand). Of course, this all requires that your scope mount holes on your rifle's action are drilled straight and inline with the center of your rifle's bore(which doesn't always happen in the manufacturing process).

Good luck,

Leftybolt

Any thoughts on Leupold DD base in combination with Burris Signature rings?

Should work great, but why not just do Burris bases too if doing Burris signature DD rings?

Leftybolt

In overthinking/researching this whole thing, I have read of people using the Burris rings with Leupold bases, but never the the reverse. It seems that people think the Leupold bases are better looking than the Burris ones. I have had a bit of a difficult time finding pictures of the Burris bases - didn't see them in their online catalog and I'm not sure the few pictures I see online are of the correct bases. If so, I would tend to agree that the Leupold bases are better looking.

Another issue has popped up - three of the rifles are stainless and it doesn't look like the Signature rings come in silver, and no lower than medium. I think I may be able to use low bases on these setups.

I played around with the guns and bases I have, and I think that 3.5-10 Leupolds will work on two of the long actions using DD bases with no extension base, and the 3-9 vari-x II will fit on the short action with non-extended DD as well.

The 2.5-8 fits perfectly on a long action with standard extended bases, no room for adjustment, but it fits. I think I will buy a DD set for that as well and then use the front extension base from the std set with the dovetail rear.

I'll probably use Leupold DD rings - they come in silver and low, I believe. All the rifles have walnut stocks and I don't care for matte or black scopes with walnut/stainless rifles. They would be fine if the stocks were synthetic. Using the Leupold rings will take more effort, but should be a good learning experience. Hopefully I end up liking them more than I do now

By the way, thank you everyone for your thoughts, and any additional input is appreciated

I love the DD's. That's what I generally use now. I'd toss those windage adjustable rings in the trash can where they belong....

I'm pretty sure Leupold bases are still made in the USA, while Burris are made overseas.

Sounds like great thinking to me. Good luck with it. I think you'll really like those DD's... They are great looking and strong.. Just a warning, some of the newer manufactured ones are extremely tight, be sure to use a little grease where they turn into the slot. I'd also buy the leupold tool for rotating the ring as well. I've used a wrench in the past, but you run the risk of marring the ring or base.

Thanks for the tip - I'll pick up one of this Leupold tools. Anything else I should be picking up - lap bar? Alignment bars? Do you really need torque wrench/drivers for this?

I'd get a set of alignment and lapping bars.

You don't need a torque wrench. Just go easy and even.

I totally agree with kingston, if you've installed your fair share of rings and bases. if not, a torque wrench might be a good thing.

While I don't use them anymore, dual dovetails are inexpensive, rock solid and look good.

Edum

Please bless us with your new found secret!!

New product from Harbor Freight??

Hey 338rcm, Where u been?

I think he uses S&K now or Conetrols...

I am a Leupold scope fan but I do not use their bases. I prefer Weaver/ Picatinny bases because down the road you will have the benefit of more ring choices, options and price options. I then buy separate screws that are hex socket type. I believe the screws are the heart of the system. I invest the extra time to degrease all the holes. Use small bolt Locktight and use a torque wrench to tighten to specs which are usually 15-18 lbs. Ring inserts are another good investment. I learned a lot about taming recoil from the spring gun guys. Believe it or not pellet rifles are harder to tame than magnums.

M70 and Leupold DD's are like peas and carrots. I also run warne quick detach in a certain applications but they are heavy.

Well, last week I ordered Leupold low DD rings in matte and silver - one set of each. Also ordered one set of gloss DD bases and had to backorder a set of silver DD bases - apparently they are sold out everywhere. Last week I removed existing bases and rings.

I think that 3.5-10x40 vx-3 is going to work perfectly on low DD rings - M70 LA/25-06. So it will work just as well on 7mm too.

First problem. Front base went on perfectly. Rear screw, rear base went on perfectly. Front screw rear base spins. I did not strip this. I am a farm boy - I know righty tighty, lefty loosey. I just took out the old base screws last week. Remove base, turn in screw. Barely starts, then spins. What the heck?? Try other screw. Same thing. Try old screws from old bases - same thing.

Unfortunately, my eyes aren't what they once were and my bench is dark. Only thing I can think of is original store (I bought this new) screwed up threads when they mounted scope originally and loctite kept screw in the base. 😡 I see threads, but there is some obstruction. I will try to inspect threads better, but probably headed to 'smith tomorrow.

FWIW & IMHO,
Dual Dovetails are a very hard system to fault. I prefer unitized one piece mounts similar to the ones made for Chandler, however, they have gone out of business and I dunno if anyone is stepping up to the plate to carry the mount. I'm fairly certain they are made by Badger Ordnance. Richard Near, who can be a mental furball, also makes a very nice version of this mount called the Alphamount. Here are a few photos from a forum member some four years ago...











This is a DD Ross Unitized Mount that is no longer available. The benefit is using all four screws, versus three on factory one piece dual dovetail mounts. Granted I don't know what it really offers over Dual Dovetails on two piece bases.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/nw8ZMH4.jpg[/img]

I greatly prefer Talley TNT rings and bases over Warnes. That is if you want to go with a vertical split ring. I started with them when they were Kimber Rings & Bases and went on to use them on my 82C after they formed the second company on Kimber of America, Made in Oregon. If I had a reason to dislikes Warnes it stems from their powdered metal construction and tendency to attract rust. Especially in the matte finish which is overly rough and gives moisture a place to hold. Talleys are made of bar-stock and I think they are the better-looking ring without question. If you can stay with a 1" or 30mm tube you can get both in Stainless. Not plated chrome moly. 34mm TNTs are only available in Chrome Moly/Blue. That being said the metal grain pattern is tight and the finish can be somewhat muted though they are smooth and are not as rust prone the Warne Product. IME.. That said vertical split rings can be difficult to get the reticle level due to their tendency to turn the tube on tightening. Not to mention turning the scope in the rings is an almost guaranteed practice for ring marks...

If going to a Picatinny rail and rings Badger Ordnance has yet to be excelled(IMHO). I've installed a couple hundred sets as a Schmidt & Bender dealer. The finish is not up to NEAR, however, the tolerances are superb and I have never had to lap the first set. Nor have I left a ring mark on a tube to my knowledge.

I've had pretty miserable luck with Nightforce Alloy Rings and worst of all their unimounts. Not bad once installed and heavily lapped, however, they are a nightmare on being off spec for the scope tube and unimounts are often bent and bowed heavily. Installation on a rail and proper lapping is about the only say to keep that product from pinching the tube and imparted a great deal of unnecessary stress to the scope. Their steel rings are good quality, however, I would take Badger every time...

All in all Dual Dovetails properly mounted(lapped in place) are hard to beat. They were my first centerfire ring & base configuration and I still thing they are superb. Be sure NOT to wipe off the copper anti-seize from the tenon. Doing so will lead to galling.

The ultimate ring and base system, again IMHO, is D'arcy Echols custom mounts he installs on this Legend AND some Classics. They add a third screw to each one piece lower ring & base and are quite attractive to the eye. Not to mention as stout as anything ever made...

Best of luck...

Regards, Matt.

The Talley fixed rings just look right to me on a model 70. The Burris rings make it almost impossible to get ring rash on the scope. But I would lap what you have add a piece of electrical tape or use the rubbery form-a-gaskit on them and rock on.

Don't care for the Leopold mounts as I have had many with big gaps under the back ring and have sheared screws trying to eliminate the gap.


Sorry just read the post where you had already made the purchase. On the mount hole issue I run a thread tap through new ones or suspected gunked up old ones. Or even better re-drill to 8x40 threads. Sometimes the different bases take different length screws and it is not uncommon to get the wrong ones sometimes.

I much prefer the Talley lightweights to other rings/bases out there. I have 7 rifles with them and they are rock solid and very light as well. Also great bang for the buck.

Sounds like most people like Talley's. I ordered another set of the split type today. I still have a few of the windage adjustable Leupold's, but I'm working on them a little at a time or should I say 108.00 at a time.

The Talley light weight are horizontally split rings with integral bases and made out of aluminium.

The Talley light weight are horizontally split rings with integral bases and made out of aluminium.