Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Anyone choosing unleaded bullets for meat safety?

I guess all us old farts should be dead by now then.."opinion" being the operative word there.

So you're saying graphite is bad for you too?

I'm using mostly monometals now due to fear of exposing my kids to lead. And that's the only reason as they don't kill as well as traditional lead and copper bullets.

Given some thought to the alleged risks of lead, but it might be a moot point. The USFWS has been charged with keeping a data base on lead toxicity of federally protected wildlife, and at some states request they've also been keeping track of other wildlife species. Apparently in a short time the USFWS has compiled a fair list of critters who have died from lead toxicity. The USFWS has announced plans on prohibiting lead core bullets on the lands they manage. Colorado Parks & Wildlife has been running a little blurb in their Big Game Brochure for the last few years about recommending the use of mono bullets.

Pure speculation on my part, but it seems the handwriting is on the wall and sometime in the near/mid-term future I wouldn't be surprised to see some states (like Colorado) prohibit lead core bullets for hunting. Just like lead shot.

I have something approaching a lifetime supply of NBT's and NPt's seconds in some calibers and weights sitting in my reloading cabinet. With no small effort of willpower, I'm trying my darnedest to stay away from SPS until I have reduced my lead bullet inventory...........

Casey

A lead ban will happen. It's only a matter of time.

I agree the lead ban will happen, sometime, but I figure is will be from the greenies flexing their muscle instead of a real danger to Humans. From what I know about the matter it seems the birds have to ingest a lot of pellets for there to be a real danger. That is why ducks and birds that feed on them is the main danger. Condors are too limited in range for them to be considered by most people. miles

I remember Obama had signed an EO banning lead bullets on some federal lands. Trump signed an order canceling that.

The main reason I don't use Barnes and other monos is that in the future,the antis is will use the excuse that many are already are using them and it won't be a problem to ban them. Those that do use them now are just helping their cause

I use Barnes because they are the best bullet for the job period.

The antis will never go away, barnes or not...

And, IMHO, if we were limited to monos for game, it would not be a negative like steel for waterfowl is.

To have to use mono for target etc... would be a huge negative.

So the antis won't go away then you will help them out

I probably have killed more elk than most on this forum and have never used a mono without any problems. "best bullet for the job period" Your opinion only,no fact.

If and when the national ban comes , the std C&C bullet will not be available for long.Then it will hit you in the pocket book. Like any other thing that gets baneed, a little chip here and there until it is all gone.

No!!!! We've been using them since the early'90's, simply because they work so well! memtb

Flat statements are ridiculous, period.

Use what you want and let us who like monos use them without the holier than thou sermon. I prefer technological advances over trying to redo old ways of doing something.

Yep.

That single statement says probably more than you ever intended and certainly more than you could imagine.

Considering the loss of meat that occurs with lead bullets and which is due to the lead of and by itself, just looking at the value of the meat lost at grocery store meat cost, the cost of the monos well more than offset unless you only head shoot or you ignore the lead. I have killed close to fifty deer myself with monos. The people I have loaded them for have killed a few more. That's a sample of right on 100 that while not random, it is as close to random as the intentional act of shooting an animal is going to get. Out of that sample there have been no lost animal. There have been no animals that required a second shot. That's over about fifteen years using monos. Over fifty years using cup and core bullets I have personally killed a like number. I lost none, but there were a number that did need a second dose and that was a result of bullets either being deflected by bone or coming undone, something that's never happened with a mono that I have loaded.

I don't agree with a lot that rost has to say, and in fact I am skeptical of Texas people in general, but he may well be right. When it comes to killing critters monos might well be the best available for the job in competent hands. I have never seen anything less than perfect performance out of them.

Ask him how many elk he's killed, this is the elk forum right? Then compare that answer to saddlesore's tally and get back with us on who's "right."

I sometimes wonder about the effect lead fragments in my game meat might have on my family. If there is a significant risk I would consider moving to Barnes, but if the risk it's mostly politically contrived I'd prefer to stay with my known performers like Accubonds. There are plenty of lead=bad articles out there supplied by less than impartial groups, but the problem I have is finding good unbiased studies on the subject relating lead hunting ammunition to negative effects on Humans.

Here's one that shows a 0.3 microgram/deciliter increase in blood lead levels for folks who eat game meat (presumably shot with lead) vs those who do not:

Lead level in Hunters

That increase seems really small, about 1/5th of the average blood lead level in the US (according to Google anyway)

I'd be really interested in seeing other studies that actually look at the effect of big game hunting with lead ammunition on the health of the hunters and their families. Everything else is just noise.

Interesting study but it goes into no detail on the species of game consumed. Seeing as how it's Dakota, I'd guess a lot of pheasant and waterfowl, not really germane to big game consumption.

There is also the issue of designated "Critical Habitat" for species listed under the ESA. For example, it looks like large swaths of USFS lands in the Rockies and parts of the PNW will be designated as critical habitat for lynx. If the USFWS determines enough evidence exists that lead toxicity poses a risk to lynx, the USFWS could impose lead core bullet ban on the federal lands designated as critical for lynx. Or the USFS--who is also responsible for administrating the ESA--could impose the ban themselves. And it could be extended to private lands also.

Miles,

I've have seen evidence of monos not tracking straight as it traverses through a critter. I can only speculate what caused it. I have also seen them fail to open, probably because of lower velocity. Don't get me wrong, I think monos do well, I have used them myself and witnessed their performance on critters quite a bit. If or when I use them in the future it'll be with confidence.


Casey

Well, out of right on 100 deer killed with monos, the majority of which were Barnes and maybe 10 were with both E-Tips and GMXs, I have observed, the worst deflection I have seen is maybe 20 degrees or so on a fawn double lung shot with a Barrnes 130 out of a 30-06. During that period I did see one Hornady Flex tip 160 grain out of a 30-30 deflect off a rib rid up under the hide, pass through part of the chops and exit directly above the spine. I have seen the same pre-mono days with cup and core bullets on several occasions, but in those same days a number of internal deflections, some of which were quite startling.

What gives me so much more confidence in the monos is along with the noticeable absence of deflection, the extraordinary penetration of bone without deflection. One particular doe I high shouldered at closer to 300 yards with a 110 gran .270 TTSX: Fist size hole in the onside shoulder blade, four ribs near the spine edgewise, a fist size chunk of spine removed from the bottom of the spine, two more ribs edgewise and a quarter size hole in the off side blade and then out. Spine and shoulder blade are not particularly hard, but they're still bone. Ribs are very hard and springy. For that bullet to traverse that much bone in a straight line is remarkable. The particular deer also had caliber size in and out holes in the hide which contrasted quite surprisingly with the massive internal damage.

The link is to the abstract of the study. What I have seen of the study itself however is lacking in some important detail.