Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Anyone choosing unleaded bullets for meat safety?

Quite some time ago, Muledeer posted a study done in Sweden that was very well done.I don't have it any more but perhaps he will chime in.I think I finally trashed it because I got tired of arguing with stupid people. More political than science. Sort of like global warming

Understood. Like someone else said, shotgun pellets in a bird's breast meat are different than a bullet (even with fragments) in a rib cage of a big game animal. You would think that if they differentiated between those they would have at least mentioned that in the abstract.

That's graphite not lead in them there pencils!

Yep,I will be working on number 51 in three weeks. At least 20 of them have been with pure lead or copper coated lead, muzzle loader bullets. Others were with Sierra Game Kings, Sierra 220 gr RN, a few Rem bronze points and a few Nosler partitions . Double lung shots ruin very little meat if any. I don't shoulder shoot or butt shoot elk. I have lost one elk in all those years. A long tracking job on another elk was due to my inadequate shooting, but it was recovered. I can't remember many that required a second shot. Again those that did was because of poor bullet placement,not the bullet.

Three scenarios of bullet failure occur.One is the elk was never recovered , so no proof of bullet failure. Another is elk recovered ,but poor bullet placement was the reason the elk did not die immediately.The third is selecting a bullet not designed for the job. This usually occurs when a hunter pushes bullet at magnum speeds that is designed for less than 2800-290o fps max or they take questionable angled shots .The hunters that experience these then goes out looking for the holy grail of bullet design rather than fix his/her own inadequacies.

Hmmm... How do you account for people using factory ammo that comes undone at normal ranges without entering the chest? How do you account for factory ammo used at very short range that comes undone? How do you account for factory ammo cup and core bullets that deflect off a rib and just slide around under the hide? How do you account for factory ammo that deflects off bone, penetrates the chest and fails to hit the internal target because of the deflection? I've seen examples of all of the above.

[quote=MILES58
Hmmm... How do you account for people using factory ammo that comes undone at normal ranges without entering the chest? Too light a bullet for the job.How do you account for factory ammo used at very short range that comes undone? Ditto How do you account for factory ammo cup and core bullets that deflect off a rib and just slide around under the hide? Too much of an angle on the shot placement A rib squarely hit will most likely shatter. How do you account for factory ammo that deflects off bone, penetrates the chest and fails to hit the internal target because of the deflection? Ditto I've seen examples of all of the above.

[/quote]

As I mentioned,poor bullet placement, too great an angle in the shot, or improper selection of the bullet to begin with. I bet most of those instances were with magnum loads of of bullets designed for slower velocity.Myself, I have never experienced any of those.However,I am not a shoulder shooter.

Actually, no. I think all of those instances were 170/180 grain 30 caliber bullets. 30-06, 308 and 30-30. One 30-30 was a 160 grain FTX Hornady LeverEvolution, so it may have been a little fast at 15 yards

Dang, you are unique in the annals of the internet. Most lost animals or long tracking jobs are due to bullet failure.

didjoo mean 'anals' of the innernet?

For those in denial, I will ask a favor.

Here is how it will go down.The antis will begin a process to ban all lead bullets.Their argument will be that there are many mono copper bullets on the market,and no need to shoot those dirty lead ones. ( remember the lead shot ban on waterfowl where the lead shot shells were $6-$8 a box and now the lead free are what $25). Ignorant legislatures who know nothing about the shooting sports will pass the ban because it will not affect them ( remember the Obamacare that they are not required to carry)..Lead bullets will not be available shortly thereafter and the mfgr's will slowly increase the cost of the monos. Those now saying the cost of a bullet is a small cost of the over all hunt will be saying "Holy Crap, I can't afford to go hunting now".

Just as a lot of our rights are being chipped away a little at a time, hunters will try to figure out how it all happened.
So my favor is :Print his out,stick it in an envelope and put it in your gun safe, in 10 -15 years when I am under the sod, (and it won't be from lead ingestion) take it out and read it.

If I am wrong you can come and pi$$ on my grave, but I bet you will be saying "That old cantankerous fart was right"

I'd never say that. You left out "cantankerous."

OK, you two, I'm gonna split the difference say it's pretty equal between bullet failure and poor bullet placement.

My family owns/owned property in the high country, adjacent to public lands long before I was on this planet. Specifically in GMU's 66, 65, 62, and 61. My parents live from May-November in unit 61 adjacent to NF at 9200 ft. The cabin is all off-grid. From the time I was cognizant I've found dead deer and elk on or near our property(s). Among the dead, unrecovered elk I've found in unit 61 over the past 20 years, and of the carcasses that were still fresh enough to tell, about half of them were shot in the front half (the deadly end of an elk) and about half had bullet holes in the back half.

Over the years, I've found three elk that were fresh enough, and I had the time and inclination, that I did a "bullet necropsy". All three times it was a conventional jacketed bullet, (the most recent still had remnants of a red plastic tip and looked suspiciously like a Hornady) and it failed to penetrate very far. Giving the elk enough time to live and run a fair distance in dry weather in moderately thick timber, and obviously never found. All three of those elk were shot in the front half.

I'll take this opportunity to stick my neck out and say bullet construction trumps everything when it comes to elk hunting--as opposed to BC and such..........

I've already told myself the next time I run across a fresh, unrecovered elk carcass I'm gonna do another bullet necropsy, take pics and post them here on the 'fire and get rightous about some of the "preferred" elk bullets recommended here on the 'fire.

And I'll probably get my azz flamed.......but, oh well.......

Casey

Sorry.Fixed it.

I like that, a man's got to know himself.

No, in fact I like to grind a little lead in my steak using a pepper grinder filled with lead shot.

MIles, the man's killed 50 elk. You're starting to sound like Zerk, arguing for arguments sake.

By your own admission you get your jollies off trailing game that runs. Given that your "best" comment makes sense.

I'm a fan of Barnes for elk, we had elk burger for dinner last night and I'm down to my last package so it is time to fill the freezer. My great grandkids are eating the burgers now and they are really the group at risk for exposure under 3 years old and less than 35 lbs doesn't take much lead to be toxic.

They won't know much about lead bullets by the time they are elk hunting they will think monometal bullets were always what was used. The idea that they will likely have to register to buy ammo turns my stomach but at least they won't be blaming old papa for lead poisoning and all that goes with it.


My decision didn't have anything to do with possible toxicity but it is one less thing to worry about.

No.

Perhaps the point I have been making that I have yet to see any such failures out of monos s just too subtle for some people and they have to resort to personal attack?

Something in the neighborhood of 99% of hunters use the ammo I described. I have personally experienced those kinds of failures, and on more than one occasion.

One of the effects of lead toxicity is CNS degradation.