Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 338 Federal range limit on elk?

My little 22" bbl 338 Federal shoots the 160TTSX, 180NAB, 185TSX and 200 Fusion ( last two are factory loads) average 3/4" (if I hold my mouth right"). My personal limit on any game animal is 375yds or so. Where I hunt elk, I've killed three cows, average range 195yds. I like a zero of +2" at 100, and I use my Duplex for range/zero adjustment out to 500. I like to see where any of my rifles hit out to 500 so I can (theoretically) try and anchor a cripple. I would only take as" close to broadside" shot on an elk at 350. I've read where some say don't try the 338 Fed past 200 to "I'm good to 500". I only care about it shooting all the way through or at least to far ribcage at my range limit. What do you elk killers say? Thanks.

The range limit is that range the bullet will still open up to at least 1-1/4 original diameter which is about 2000 FPS with Barnes X or Hornady GMX bullet. If you use a Nosler Partition you can get the same expansion down to about 1500 FPS.

"Range" is not a function or trajectory. It's a function of usefulness for the intended purpose.

If you can judge the range correctly and if you are a good enough shot, a Sharps rifle in 45-70 or 45-90 is still in range of an elk at 800 yards.

What elevation are you hunting? Most places where elk are hunted I would think you can shoot to 500 and the bullet will do what it needs to do. Where I am elk hunting my 180 Accubonds will be doing 2060 at 500 yds according to JBM ballistics. My 160 TTSXs should be at 2160. I certainly don't consider it a long range cartridge, but the 338 Fed does just fine to normal hunting ranges. The 160 TTSX is a pretty forgiving load when it comes to trajectory. 2" high at a 100 will only be 16" low at 400. You're still holding on fur. That's at 10k' where I hunt. Also, if you compare that to many other cartridges it's certainly in the ballpark with cartridges where effective range is not in question.

Ive used the 338 Federal pretty extensively since it came out in factory rifles. My favourite bullet is the 215 grain Game King. Longest shot Ive taken at big tough animals was a tad over 300 yards at a big bison. Bullet exited. Killed a dall ram a bit further out with the same load but they aren't that big or tough. Im not much for shooting at live animals much past 300 so can't comment on performance past that.

Haven't bloodied it yet, but the 160ttsx sure shoots well in my Savage 99 338. I have high hopes.

Steve,

I'm curious about your experience (or experiences) of having Partitions expand down to 1500 fps, partly because Nosler's minimum "optimum performance velocity" is 1800 fps.

I once shot a very big-bodied mule deer with a Nosler Partition that, according to the range and the numbers from a ballistic program, was going about 1700 fps on impact. The bullet angled through both lungs, and the buck stumbled off a few yards, landing in some low brush. But when I approached he jumped up and started running off. I shot again and put him down, finding the first bullet under the hide on the far side. It had hit a rib going in but no heavy bone, and barely expanded, with almost all the front core still intact. The wound channel was very narrow. It wasn't optimum performance, and Nosler's numbers correlate with the result.

The minimum velocity for expansion of the TSX and TTSX are not the same for every bullet the 160 and 185 TSX is 1800 FPS and the 225 expands at 1600 FPS.

As Muledeer posted the Noseler Partition minimum velocity is 1800 FPS.

I have read that some have had the 160TTSX break up pretty bad on heavy game, out of the 338 Federal. I don't know if its common or was just a thing that happened. My load of 52gr TAC gets me 3010 fps and under an inch easily. I know it would be dandy for mule deer, but was just wondering if (a) it would open alright around the 300yd mark or (b) blow up at 50yd on a jump shot with a hard angling shot or shoulders? Are my concerns valid or would the 180 NAB be better? I also see where Woodleigh makes a 180/200 just for the 338 Federal speeds. Assuming I could get the 200 to reach, say, 2700fps, think it would be a better choice for elk?

Mule Deer- I didn't get to read your article on the 338 Federal, so which bullet/load would "you" think is a good load on elk, out to 350? thanks

I would like the Nosler 200 grain B/T.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, that's what I'd pick too. The 200 .338 Ballistic Tip is a great bullet, though these days only available as the Ballistic Silvertip--which is exactly the same bullet except for the black oxide coating. It expands easily but penetrates deeply, and in most rifles is very accurate as well. In the .338 Federal it can easily be pushed to 2600-2700 fps, exactly how much depending on barrel length.

How do the Game Kings compare to the nosler BTs or silver tips?

Ive used the 180 NAB on a couple of moose and it performed very well. Accuracy in my rifle wasn't the best so I switched to the GK. The Woodleigh 200 looks like an interesting bullet for the Federal, and might very well make a do-it-all kind of load.

Hi Mule deer.
My experience with Partitions at long range (over 600 and a bit under 1000) personally has all be with 150 grain 270s, but I have been with other hunters using them in 30 cal, 7MM and one in 338 at 1000+, and I cannot say precisely what they do at the 1500 FPS impact speed because as a rule, we didn't recover the bullets. I surmise this because by tracking the impact velocities at the ranges I have seen the game shot (as a guide and as a friend of several hunting buddies of mine from my USMC days ) I know that the impacts have been as low as 1500.

When I see the size of the exits I am guessing (and I believe I am correct,) that the bullets are expanding. Wound channels were excellent considering the ranges the game was killed.

My longest shots have all been with 270s and I have not recovered the bullets, but if a bullet was to rivet out it's nose enough to tumble it, the penetration would probably be better than if it peals all the way back to the mid section. Anyway, my experience in dealing with dead game had me convinced that they do well down to about 1500 FPS.

So because of that experience I loaded some Partitions to about 1500-1600 FPS using Pistol Powders when I was CEO of Cast Performance back in 1999, and we shot them into our ballistic test trough. I found that same thing with them, and then I was able to recover them. I used 257 cal 115 grain. 308 cal 150 and 180 grain, 7MM 160 grain and the 338 cal 210 grain. At 1500 FPS the do expand enough to do a good job and make good wounds. Not as good as they do at 2000 of course, but they did a lot better than most other bullets we tested and WAY better than the Barnes. The Barnes I found to open very little under 2000, and not at all under 1800

I didn't test every weight or every diameter, but the results I got were enough to convince me that my theory about them working down to 1500 was valid.

Thanks, Steve, that's what I wanted to know.

What material did you use in your Cast Performance test trough?

We used water saturated news paper and real bones from cattle, sheep as well as deer antelope and elk.
Bones used were ribs, shoulder blades upper legs and some vertebra.

Szihn: Thank you for your detailed report. Very useful.

Yukon, can you comment on the performance of the sierra on game? I shot two of them into some dry media and they did not open at all. Crazy.

To be honest I haven't recovered one. The bison was hit through the lungs and if memory serves me correct the bullet clipped one rib going out. The bison didn't go 30 yards so to me thats good performance. Pretty much the same thing with the other animals Ive used that bullet on.

Thanks. As long as the wound channels were good that's all you can ask.

I settled my apprehension....I' having this rifle rechambered/converted to take the 338 RCM round. Now I feel better, ha. Great discussion though, thanks guys!

How much alteration will it take to the action make the RCM work?

Not apple to apples and a sample of one, but we had a 225 Sierra not expand out of a .358 Win at close range on deer. Deer was shot out of a tree stand at about 10-15 yards. The bullet went through and down into the soft ground. We dug it up and it hadn't opened at all. They worked great out of a Whelen though. The .358 was switched to 200 grn Hornady's and never had a glitch.

prwlr- pretty straightforward. Open the bolt face/adjust, tweak extractor, set barrel back and rechamber, replace magazine box/follower with one for an RCM. (In my case, reindex my muzzlebrake. I had the brake put on back in 2007 because I had a wrist bone replacement and made my wife feel better about me shooting, ha) I could have killed everything with it in the original 338 Federal and any bullet, I know, I just like "more power" if I can get it in an existing rifle. I had even thought of just buying another 338 win Mag, but I'm already committed to paying off bills/taxes, etc. I can't leave a rifle alone, I like them set up a certain way (looney) ....and the kinds of rifles I like, even used are around $700, then throw in a bedding job, new trigger maybe, new dies ( traded them off years ago for 338WM) and you're way up over $1000 easily. No way. I'll be out around $350 for this project, I can swallow that.

Thanks for the info.

Well....after thinking about it "a lot", I decided to keep this particular rifle as is, 338 Federal. I know my grand daughter can use it when she is older as, with its brake, it recoils like a 243. So, I'm just going to be on the lookout for a 338 RCM or even another 338 Winmag later on. Not going to sweat it now. Thanks for the info guys, I enjoy it very much. I'm just going to work up some more 200gr loads ( my SIL has a load for the 180AB he used) use it, and see how I like it. I sure don't have $1000 to buy and have tricked out a used 338WM at present, though I can keep an eye out on a deal ( which I do all the time anyhow, lol)

Maybe I am missing something, or just have too many........ahem......a choice of rifles.
If I was hunting elk, and was thinking of shooting any distance, a 338 Fed would not
be my first choice.

I hear you, but I have access ( my wonderful Son in Law) to his 300 RUM with one of those big Husquemaw (sp?) scopes and Tikka T3 Lite in 7mm Mag, and a nice 35 Whelen Ackley Improved ( not to mention 30-06/.270 .444 ha) so its not a big thingy for me, ha. I've given him some nice rifles that "I" had tricked out, hunted with or were just gifts to him. Some of them would be heirlooms I just gave him before I'm gone...so he can enjoy them now and "I" can use them whenever I want, ha. This 338 Federal is one of them. The way I like to hunt and where I hunt, turns out I've never got a shot past 250, I actually average about 200yds out here...on everything! So I tend to agonize. I have a very accurate .270 and a 7x57 handy too.

Agonize, ponder, daydream. It's what we do.

First it's guns and hunting.

Later, guns, hunting and girls.

Then (mid teens to thirtys) girls, ladies, skanks, guns , girls and hunting.

At almost 50, females are getting back to where they belong.




Except, the 14 and 10 year old daughters,
they have me worrying about what mid teens to thirties are pondering

Jim, CDNN has Ruger Hawkeyes in 338 RCM for under $500.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html#category_2=FIREARMS%2FHUNTING%20RIFLES&manufacturer=RUGER%C2%AE&caliber=338%20RCM

I saw that one Pard, thanks.

I'm late to this show...but for my 2 cents, I plan on using my 338F this year at 8,000 to 8,700 ft shooting the Fusion, most accurate factory load in my rifle, for elk. I will limit my range to 300 yards or so, my personal comfort level again for accuracy. At that elevation, with 2690 fps at the muzzle, zeroed at 200, I should be about 8 inches low (easy to account for on an elk), and be delivering 2200 ft/lbs at 2200 fps. Should punch pretty deep if not pass through. Me personally, in general, I want to deliver at least 1800 ft/lb and 2000-1800 fps to be comfortable on an elk hunt, just me.

Found a nice 338wm Ruger MKII wood stocked with Limbsaver for just a tad over $500...and on Layaway no less, ha. Back when I had my first 338wm, '93, it was also in this model and it was a nice handling rifle, but the trigger was crapolla. I took it to a local Gart Bros gunsmith who messed with it some, got it better, but he failed to tighten the guard screws. I was working two jobs, tired and neglected to check them myself...you guessed it, it split its bedding. since this was about a week before my second elk season with this rifle, I hastily put it in a B&C "club of a stock" and went hunting. It added a lot of weight to the rifle and ruined its handiness. I traded it off for a Mod 700 280 Mtn rifle which I used for years. I always liked how easy that MKII was to shoot and handle. My first season with it I packed it all week long out here in the Uintas, lots of climbing and walking, and it was a joy. In its B&C club it was torture! It shot the then available Remington 250 factory load which used the 250 Grand slam very accurately.

I need to add that the 338 RCM conversion would have worked just fine, but I felt like the barrel shank wasn't wide enough for the rechamber job. The barrel on this little Ruger 338F is pretty slim to start off. That was the biggest thing for me. Anyhow, its a fine round as it is and I thought I may as well jump back into the winmag game again at that price!