Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Sleeping pad question for the older guys

Young bucks who can sleep on granite and wake up feeling sporty.............. GFY!

At 50+ years old my trusty 80's thermarest just isn't getting it done. I get a poor night's sleep due to hip and shoulder pressure points. Digging depressions for them helps but isn't always practical.

Cost no object and it doesn't need to be the lightest- if it really works.

Wife has a NeoAir and it might work... seems awefully fragile though.

1 1/2" thermarest on an extra large heavy duty cot (shoulders wont touch the bars) covered with an old blanket and then what ever you desire to sleep under....and a good pillow.

Sorry- should've specified. I mean a backpacking pad.

My setup for hunting camp is as you describe.

My solution was a Therma-rest backpacking cot. They work.

There are some very good solutions but all involve more weight. An ultralight cot with a pad is best, probably followed with an air mattress of 3" or more.

Jeff -

I faced that when I returned to backpacking in 2011 after not having done much for 25 years or so. The old school standard 1" thick, half length Thermarest selfinflater turned from the coolest thing on the trail into some sort of medieval torture device in those years. I hurt like hell that first trip. Folks here gave me some good advice: I bought a Thermarest NeoAir, 2-1/2" thick, full length, 20" wide. It was not a self-inflater. After one night hyperventilating I ordered the little electric pump .. best 2 ounces in my pack. It folds to about the same size as my Jetboil Ti. If I'm using my old external frame pack, then I'll often also take a Z-pad ... full length, 20" wide, 3/4ths inch closed cell foam. The two pads together are awsome and the foam pad protects the air paid from any sticks i might have missed. The only negative to the NeoAir is it is crinkly ... noisy when you move.

Somewhere in the past year I bought an Exped downmat 7 XL. I think it fills the same niche though it is a little heavier.

I'm eyeing one of the Klymat skeletonized pads because they pack smaller and lighter. The idea is that a sleeping bag crushes flat and doesn't insulate well underneath, but the gaps between the tubes allow the bag to expand and fill in between them so you replace pad insulation with bag insulation you're already carrying. Looks like it should work.

Tom

Was just looking at that cot (online)- that could work! 3+ pounds for the L version.

Expeds are nice but on the heavy side. I like a Neoair paired with a z-rest. Best combination of light and comfortable IMO.

That's two votes for the NeoAir/ Zpad combo. I like the redundancy, and that the Zpad can do other duties as well, such as a soft dry seat to glass from or something.

My wife has expressed regrets about her NeoAir; she popped it on its first big trip, the Trinity's in NoCal. Pine cone debris. But with a Zpad under it........ I like that.

I saw a display of one of those skeletonized pads at Cabelas a few years ago. I'm simultaneously skeptical and intrigued. The theory sounds good. They are pretty dang minimalist in person- or at least the model I saw was.

NeoAir XTherm and Zpad or Ridgerest combo. If not hiking too far, the Exped Downmat 9 with Ridgerest is awesome.

The expel down mats are a little heavier but seem sturdier. I've been very happy with the downmat 5 when I get to use it. We bought it as an extra but it has become a favorite. If I have the wife or kids along someone always seems to nab it over the other choices. Also, it doesn't make a bunch of noise. Before that, I'd put a ridge rest under an ultralight thermarest. The little expel is better.

Thanks guys. Now I have some specifics to try out at the (somewhat bewildering) wall of pads at REI.

My wife dislikes how noisy her NeoAir is. That an issue for you users? Also, she says she feels like she's always gonna roll off it, while the similar Big Agnes has the air compartments running lengthwise which, it is said, helps with that. Thoughts?

Jeff,

Like you, my old orange 1" Thermarest did me well for a couple decades. Apparently the insulation inside began to deteriorate and would it plug up the valve when I tried to deflate it.

So I bought a Big Agnes insulated Air Core. Insulated my left eye, that pad is a cold sumbee...... I've borrowed the insulated Q-Core, X-Therm, and a REI insulated pad, and have come to the conclusion I don't like being balanced on a Swimming Pool Air Pad. I keep thinking in the middle of the night I'm gonna fall off and drown in the pool. I kind've feel like I''m balanced on them.

I tried a Big Agnes Two Track self inflating pad and really liked it. It's twice as thick as my old Thermarest and is rated something well below zero. Self inflating foam pads are inherently warmer than the air pads. I found that out myself when I put my old Thermarest Ultra Light 5/8" pad under the Insulated Air Core and it made a world of difference.

Of the guys I talked to who are old enough to have used self inflating pads, they all say the air pads have a greater risk of springing leaks.

Of the young studs I've talked to who do a lot of backcountry extreme skiing they mostly seem to be using the Exped air pads.

Even though the Two Track is rather heavy at something approaching 30 ozs I think that 's going to be the one I buy.


Casey

A couple of tboughts. First, she's probably got it over-inflated if she feels like she's gonna roll off. The right way to inflate is, blow it up all the way, lay down on it, and slowly release air until your hips sink in comfortably but don't rest on the ground. That's how they are most comfortable. Second, the noise doesn't bother me.

Third, why is she still hanging out with a goofball like you?

Youre gonna need to try harder than that if you want those guys to truly forgive & accept you. Be nastier. This wussy-ass passive aggression won't cut it.

Just trying to help a bro find his way back to his safe space. Booo! Ha. Gotcha.

Thanks Casey! Obviously this is very much up to personal preference... I've never liked air mattresses, though it's possible SP's suggest to inflate it less might help. Dunno. I just know that as Tom said, the old orange thermarest ain't cutting it anymore. It's everything it ever was; but I'm not.

WTF are you talking about? You posted a question and I gave you an honest answer, trying to help out. If someone is feeling like they are constantly rolling off an inflatable, they have it inflated too much. Nothing more, nothing less.

That last sentence was just a joke, if it wasn't a joke I would have used something stronger than "goofball."

I'm willing to leave the BS from that other thread on the other thread and give you useful information on the backpacking forum without dragging the dog sh** stuck to my shoes over here.

Try not to be such a fricking drama queen.

The Neoairs are different from most both in terms of durability and insulating value. Much better insulation that my BA insulated air core pad. I have a pile of older self-inflaters in my basement, they're still serviceable but the Neoair is the one I reach for. I already had one but it was recommended to me by the outfitter I used for my AK sheep hunt, and it's what he uses. I used it for 12 days, camped on rocks every night. Never had an issue with it before, during, or after.

You're the one that needs not to drag the crap over here. Although I doubt if you can do so. Then you can throw a smiley out and think that makes up for it.

It's habitual, we've seen it many times. Don't play with Smoke, he will rip you a new azz-hole while at the same time responding to another.

I know of none that has looked for an argument on this forum. All here have let their feelings about you and what goes on in the other forums slide. I think it would be best if you made an effort to keep it that way.

The biggest advantage to the air mattresses are their ability to smooth out the rocks, roots, bumps and dead pine squirrels under the tent floors. But....another thing I don't like about them is when I put my hand, or elbow and sometimes my hip it goes clear to the ground. Inflate the pad really tight in an attempt to address that and it makes it feel more like your're going to roll off.

I've never had a pad spring a leak on me in the field, and I know some people are just hard on that kind of stuff, but I've seen a lot more leaks from the air mattresses than the old self inflators.

I slept on a X-Therm, and as air mattresses go it was the best of the ones I have slept on, but the extra thick Two Track impressed me a lot. Plus the Two Track has a higher R-Value ( If we can trust manufacturers ratings), but it is heavier.


Casey

Two Track is now on my list to try. Thanks!

In my limited experience with air mattresses- which is limited to just Cyn's NeoLite, as far as backpacking stuff- if it's got enough pressure to relieve my hips and shoulders then it's as you say (and she says)- feels like a guy will roll off. For that reason I'm liking what others have suggested, with the Zpad AND an air pad. Just gonna have to go into REI at a slow time on a weekday and hopefully try some stuff out. Their stock was low last time I was in there.

The cot notion holds a lot of appeal too; I read into that last night and guys were raving about them. Guys who'd had to give up backpacking due to injury or age were saying it got them back in the woods. But I'd really need to try one first and REI doesn't have the new model yet, and the old ones are disco'd.

I slept so badly the night before the eclipse (we did the guerrilla quickie overnighter) that I had some of the weirdest dreams I've had in YEARS. Woke up all frazzled. I'll spare you the details <g> but it sucked and drove home that I need to fix this.

WTF are YOU talking about? You posted a joke and I posted a joke back! I'm still chuckling at yours; that was some good stuff. Did you not get mine? Don't make me explain it; they're never as funny then.

My wife popped hers on its first big trip; two holes in fact. Jeffrey Pine cone frags. She was quite worried about that and says she cleaned up the area really well but they still got through... So, it can happen.

With that said I've only punctured my old thermarest twice in 30 years. But every time I let my kids use them (we have several) they find a way to pop them. So I'd guess a little care goes a long ways.

My biggest concern about using ONLY an air mattress is that it just sucks to have to find a leak out in the mountains, and something like a NeoAir seems pretty useless popped. At least you still have SOMETHING there with an old thermarest.

As far as thermal insulation from the ground that's been a non-issue for me since my 70's closed-cell Pad From Hell. So I'm not ranking that high on my list.

It does. If you want luxury, you need to find an Exped Downmat 9. But the XThern isn't too far behind. A little noisier, but that doesn't bother me after a long day of hiking. Never notice it when I'm that tired, and I roll around in the night a fair bit.

Jordan, have you directly compared the Xtherm to the Lite?

Funny... I say cost doesn't matter and I'll eat a little extra weight but those Exped's are heavy! And they are proud of them. But, eyes on the prize here. Comfort is the goal.

FWIW, I did not do well with the ultralight cot. At the time it had a Cabela's store label but I believe it was the Thermarest rebranded. I wound up selling it here after 1-2 uses. I'm a stomach sleeper so maybe for a back or side sleeper it'd be ok.

Tom

Interesting. Makes sense. Side sleeper myself; I can get about one "portion" of stomach sleeping in in a night, but beyond that it messes with my lower back. Too bad-.it would solve the hip/shoulder pressure point issues. Cyn won't let me sleep on my back. Supposedly I snore. I call BS; I've never heard me snore! But she holds certain trump cards in bedly matters.

Beats me how the hell any one here can stoop low enough to reply to this liberal troll.

Jeffo acts like an immature ass in the campfire and then try's to act 'normal' on other threads.

One day he's the worlds political analyst, the next day he needs advice on which side to sleep on.

[bleep] off.

Kenneth needs a pad.



A Maxi-Pad.

Be sure to figure in the weight of a pad because it's necessary. Cots by themselves are like sleeping on a glacier. Also, a tight cot is hard. It has no give. It's not much softer than the ground although it's not lumpy. A cot along with an insulated 2 or 3" air mattress is the best of both worlds.

I use an Alps "lightweight" cot while llama packing but it's way too heavy for backpacking. It's still a cot, though. I tried it one night without a pad just too see and it was terrible, cold and hard. Adding an insulated air mattress makes it very comfortable.

Try a Tampax... it's the perfect pad for a, well, you know.

I use a Big Agnes Air Core pad. Super comfy. Just got to get the right amount of air. Mines uninsulated and I'm comfortable to the upper 20s. I've slept through nights colder than that, but not comfortably.

An uninsulated air mattress along with an ensolite pad of some kind will keep you warm when it gets way down there. The ensolite weighs very little but its bulky. An insulated air mattress along with the ensolite is really warm.

Did you say perfect pad ... period! ???

Tom

<mic drop>

I've played with the lite in the store, but I have not spent any time sleeping on it. For me, the major jump in R value makes the few extra ounces of the XTherm well worth it.

I'm a warm sleeper (a "furnace", as my wife puts it) and don't ever remember feeling like lack of insulation in my sleeping pad was a consideration in any way. So that's not high on the list, but the Xtherm certainly looks more comfortable in general, and that is high on the list.

Just had some work rescheduled into next week instead of being a crises this week. Yay. Might run in to REI and/or the Backcountry store today.

Jeff,
I just got the new Nemo Cosmo 30xl, it's super comfortable, integrated foot pump, insulated, built in pillow, don't slide around on grippy surface, 80"x30"....nice.

Went to REI and tried a bunch. The combo of the Thermarest Zpad and the Xtherm was indeed very nice, and I like the versatility of the Zpad as well as the redundancy the pair would have. On the downside, the XTherm was quite crinkly and noisy and it did have the feeling like a guy could roll off. Didn't have any Exped to try. My favorite, hands down, was the Big Agnes Q-Core; probably the SLX version, which is lighter but not as much R-value as the other Q-core models. They make a dinosized version (25x78 if memory serves) that I think would be awesome, but even the 20x72 version felt more secure in terms of rolling off and was much quieter than the Xtherm. Didn't buy anything yet, I'd like to get into Backcountry and see what they have to try out if I'm spending over $200.

Backcountry is a cool store.

If you're feeling like falling off, you're probably using too much air still in the inflatable. One plus to double pads is you can run the top one with even less air. If you bottom out, you're still on foam pad, not rocks.

Tom

Yeah- who knew?! They are tucked into that grungy industrial area; it's actually really close to Coyote Steel, where I buy a lot of materials. A guy I met up at Steens has a kid who works there and supposedly set me up for a discount... if I can just remember her NAME...

I totally see the appeal of two pads. And also, of NOT needing two pads.

Neoair. If more insulation is needed, a 1/4" Evazote pad on top, or Z-Rest.

For better insulation, put the ensolite on top. For better protection for the air mattress, put it on the bottom. I've done it both ways as needed.

I'm kinda liking the NeoAir Xtherm Max (5" wider).... just due to the vagaries of my body I do sprawl a bit when circumstances allow and the extra width would alleviate any issues of feeling like I was falling off the thing that lower inflation did not. I'll have to google the Evazote pad.

Jeff, I use the older size "Large" for hunting. I use the 5oz lighter size "Regular" for summer backpacking (I don't carry either the evazote or z-rest summer backpacking).

Jeff,

Did you happen to try the REI Air Rail when you were there?

I have tried all the pads, but I have used two models from Klymit, as well as the Xtherm.

The REI pad is my favorite, although it doesn't go on every trip because they are fairly heavy.

But for the best sleep, its my favorite.

Is that the one with the two, I dunno, tubular rails on the outside edges? I saw that but didn't try it. Guess I should've.

It's maybe a little silly to desire such aids, but at my advancing age it's easy for getting woken up a few extra times to just turn into a bad night's sleep. I seem to be sleeping less in general, and more lightly, and if I wake up "enough" the various concerns of my life kick in and it's game over. I'm sure you guys know the drill, my dad warned me about this <g>.

I'll try that one. Thanks for the heads-up bdeep.

Melatonin

Melatonin? Is that a single malt?

Yeah thats the one.

I thought it was skin cancer..........



Casey

Nah, I'm pretty sure it's a Speyside single malt.

Battue knows his stuff, it always works for me.

Only JeffO can make a sleeping pad thread last for 6 pages........who would've thunk it........

This is what I thought I knew about sleeping pads:

--the backpacking world invented air mattresses because they were light weight, and the yuppies all figured they couldn't sleep outside unless they were on a pad that was as thick as their Beauty Rest back in the suburbs. But air mattresses were cold.

--So the backpacking world began installing Primaloft, down, crinkly potato chip bags to reflect the heat, and safety rails so a guy wouldn't roll off the pad and sprain his shoulder in the middle of the night (just think, if a bear wanders by and hears the crinkling he'll think "oh goody, a hotdog wrapped in potato chips).

This is what I have learned:

--Take TWO pads, thereby negating any weight savings, not to mention the extra bulk..............


Casey

Well let me say this about that. A Z-rest and a Neoair together probably weigh about the same as an exped, and are just as comfortable (IMO, that's subjective).

And I don't worry about the bulk of my z-rest because it's carried under the compression straps on the outside of my pack taking up zero pack space. And if I'm just walking on trails I put it on the bottom of the pack which is a good thing because it protects the bottom of the pack when I sit down and lean back to take a break.

Let me see what a z-rest weighs......

Smoke,

An X-Therm and the Ridgerest combined weigh 30-35 ozs. And regardless where you're carrying it, it's still bulk on the pack.

When I backpack hunt I already have my daypack and my bow/rifle that sticks out and makes things awkward,, I don't want more "swing weight" adding to the inertia!

Sounding like a veritable curmudgeon here, but with tents, sleeping bags, packs, and stoves, over the past 25-30 years so much of this stuff is as much a sideways move with the tradeoffs involved.


Casey

You carry a backpack and a daypack? At least my z-rest serves a purpose.

I ain't about to go hunting carrying my Astraplane!


Casey

Casey, totally get what you're saying. But a decent night's sleep is a pretty big deal to me, and it's been an issue lately. I started in the 70's with a thin foam pad; I paid my dues <g>. I'll find ways to offset the weight/bulk, or just eat it and know that "I'm sleeping ok tonight". Or that's the hope here.

I don't blame you but there are alternatives that would allow you to leave the daypack (and all that extra weight and bulk you seem to be concerned about) at home.

It's interesting to see all the differences in individual preferences as far as what someone is either willing or unwilling to carry. For me, a z-rest for better sleep and a few extra "real food" items usually make the cut. Sometimes even a sling-light camp chair.

An extra pack doesn't. To each his own.

The top of my Dana ArcFlex converts to a fanny pack. Have not ever done so. Can't imagine packing in a day pack-- though there are some amazingly light packs these days. My wife's Osprey 48 is crazy light; so I'm guessing there's some crazy-light day packs. My Badlands SD isn't one of them.

If I end up going the two-pads route it'll be a bit of a luxury for sure, but at this point I'm ready to go there. It's the convergence of me sleeping lighter as I get older, and my body being much less tolerant of sleeping on hard surfaces.

I could probably take enough weight off my ArcFlex via just the zipper pulls and some round mystery rings it has, to offset an extra pad. Those things are steel and HUGE. Ditto the nylon webbing in places. It's like a tow strap for a car. Bet I could pull 24 oz off that pack easily.

Jeff,,,just saw this post,
I have the exact same issue sleeping, just started maybe 2-3 years ago. Even at home the same thing, not uncomfortable or insomnia,,,I can fall asleep in less than 1 minute, but wake up repeatably for no reason. A solid night drinking slows it a bit, but that F's up the rem cycles...work hard, healthy, fairly stress free life...I'm bewildered.

Have you been tested for sleep apnea?

Smoke,

I've looked at all the different ways people are hunting out of a backpack. I just can't quite bring myself to carry a "daypack" big enough to camp out of. Crimps my style, ya' know? My daypack is a double fanny pack with shoulder harness and I added a zippered pocket in the middle of my back. It started out as my archery daypack to allow to me shoot instinctively. I liked it so much it's been my everything hunting pack for close to 30 years. Can't believe how well it's held up. From the now defunct Packs Plus out of Utah. My backpack carries my camp stuff, my daypack carries my hunt stuff

I won't go backpacking without my Thermarest or Big Agnes lightweight chairs that use the sleeping pads!

All of my backpack hunts I set up camp and operate from there. There has been a couple times (like sheep hunting) when I took a bivvy and my sleeping bag tied onto my daypack and spent the night to ambush rams on the far side of the drainage. Of course, one of those times I woke up, started glassing at daylight, and the friggin rams had moved during the night and were grazing 200 yds below my camp on the other side of the drainage. Go figure........

People carry too much crap in their daypacks anyway. When I was guiding I couldn't believe how much stuff clients were trying to carry based on what they were told they were going to need. Plus the extra weight for the flatlanders just made it that much harder to get around.

Casey

Casey, I can't bring myself to carry a daypack big enough to camp out of either. I use an internal frame backpack that's for built for hauling loads but also cinches down enough to use as a daypack. It's not as svelte as a good daypack but it's svelte enough to get around with. Last year my hunting partner and I both carried full-sized packs and it was nice to have a full-sized pack for the first trip out with meat.

No I haven't,
Last time I checked the sleep diagnosis was like 3k, my wife has sleep apnea and uses a CPAP...I don't snore or wake up with headaches, nor am I over weight(not that you need to be, my wife weighs 105 lb).

Smoke, now you got me wondering how much my empty daypack weighs. I'm guessing 3 lbs max. It's just not that much. Every pack that I have looked at that has enough frame to backpack out of is too restrictive for my tastes. But you're right it's interesting to herethe different approaches to hunting with a pack.

This year I'm not backpack hunting but if I kill an elk I will be packing her out on my back because it's designated wilderness. So I'll carry my backpack with my daypack stuffed in it and my rifle in my backpack scabbard 'till I get to the bottom of the avalanche chute, ditch my Astraplane and crawl (crawl I say) up the 70 degree slope to my ambush spot. It's been successful for me in the past. I realize an Astraplane is a huge pack, but it carries weight better than anything else I've ever tried--and it's got room for my daypack...

Casey

Now you're talking. Sounds like a great spot, good luck!

Not what you were asking about but I am really liking hammocks for camping. If they are big enough to lay in diagonally then they are really comfortable. Get one that is supposed to be rated for two people if not too heavy. I like the old fashioned Yucatan for hot weather and for winter the type that has insulation below the hammock is good until really cold weather.

I have a touch of sleep apnea and can't sleep on my back. I'm fine on my side or belly but hammocks and belly sleepers aren't compatible. There are hammocks out that supposedly can be used by stomach sleepers but the price turns my stomach worse than the position.

I use a BA insulated Air Core 25x 78 4 inches thick and it gives my 6'4" 250 lbs frame enough support to sleep through the night. I am a side sleeper so I would get sore when using thinner pads. In 2007, I used a 1 inch thermarest to backpack at Philmont. By the time my 2011 trip came around I switched to a 2.5" BA. Now that doesn't cut it but the 4" works great.

I spent a week on this in Idaho last year. I'm 6'4" and 235 and I loved it. Light weight and plenty long.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B007...Pl=1&dpID=41f4HzmZL0L&ref=plSrch

MM

If I'm leaving camp to head out and hunt, I've got a pack on that can carry the first load of meat out.

As for sleeping pads, I have an older Exped and now a Therm-a-Rest. I think the Exped's more comfy, but the therm is lighter. I'll know after this season whether it was worth it. Each season I try to get a little lighter and less bulky. That's one of my changes this year. I'll be in the woods CO 1st and 2nd rifle, so I'll find out out.

I spent 4 nights on a Nemo Astro lite, I'm a side sleeper. Nemo Astro lite Pad is lightweight, hiked in 10 miles to a set of lakes. temperatures were in the low 40's, didn't get cold from the ground. Pad is a blow up, inflated the pad then lay on it and let out enough air that I was comfortable but not touching the ground. Nemo does make an insulated version.

I'd suggest the Neoair Dream 30 inch wide pad. It's my go to.

Z Lite, BA Air Core, EE quilt. Use 1/8" shock cord around the Zlite for packing around then you can unfold it in 1/2 and it makes a good seat for a tired ass.

Exped downmat 7 or 9 with EE down quilts.

A good night's sleep is the best thing I can carry on my back. YMMV

I ended up suffering on my old thermarest another season when I posted this. However, a couple weeks ago I bought a Big Agnes SLX in the 25x78" size and just used it for 4 nights on the Lost Coast in NoCal. Awesome! Love it! Hips and shoulders were a non issue. I slept like an innocent man......... and I ain't.

The Lost Coast was pretty bitchin' too.

Also joined the modern world of canister fuels and bought a Pocket Rocket 2. Guess I'll finally retire my trusty Whisperlite Intl. which, may I add, still works great 30 years in.

Recommend the ThermaRest "All Season" wide and rectangular. More durable thickness than their NeoAir expensive "light" models. Get the optional Synergy fitted sheet...excellent to prevent wear and tear and keep you from sliding off. Inflating to a little less than maximum gives most comfortable way to side sleep and fit contours of those with rumpzillas.

Additional Ridgerest pad is not a bad idea if expecting zero-ish camp conditions, but getting the X ThermMax is another feasible option.

The little motorized pump works pretty well, but now models are offered with a pumping "sleeve". I modified a pop bottle neck and cap drilled out with a garden hose washer and a garbage bag to use as an inflater pump.

well at my age of 65 years and a few major surgeries too, I had a tuff job all my life shovel work ,pole climber for 35 years at the electric company ,us old lineman climbed everything cold,hot,rain,snow, sun or dark,wind what ever. yes I still back pack I still like a full size back pack even just for the day with a folding chair " folding chair so my butt don`t get wet anymore and getting off the ground is tougher now days too ". I plan on going on a Alaska hunt 2019 next year and yes its with friends who live in Alaska and yes another backpack hunt rain,sun ,snow whatever again ,I luv the hunts but living with my back pack and camping is getting tougher each year,but still look forward to it every year. this year 2018 elk will be hunt`n with bows in the mountains and yes Backpacks too ! good luck to all with a safe hunt,Pete53

Bumping this to share some experiences since then.

Just got back from a big trip. Wife and I backpacked most of the New Mexico CDT this spring, starting at Crazy Cook Monument at the border south of Lordsburg and finishing 600+ miles and 6-1/2 weeks later at Ghost Ranch in northern NM. We did not make it to the CO border due to the massive snowpack in the southern Rockies, so we missed the last ~100 trail miles or so. We intend to head back down and re-start from there at some point, maybe even this fall.

Anyway, I had quite the sleeping pad adventure(s) on this trip. I did learn a lot.

I started out with a Big Agnes AXL pad, at that time their lightest thick inflatable. I had used this on the Tahoe-to-Yosemite trail, about 160 miles if memory serves, in 2021 and loved it. With the inflation just right, the hip and shoulder hotspots we all experience were eliminated. It did great for the first few night of this trip, then went flat. The problem was a manufacturing defect at a dimple, not a puncture, and while I was able to get it to hold air for one more night, that repair failed and that was it. Toast. I then spent two very unpleasant nights on the hard cold ground in the desert south of Lordsburg.

Gear failures on a remote trail like this are a nightmare. You usually don’t have cell, so that’s out, the tiny trail towns don’t usually have outdoor gear stores, and the shipping lead times to where you are gonna BE at some future date can be wishy-washy because companies don’t typically do fast shipping to general-delivery addresses. Please remember this as I try to explain how the ensuing fiasco unfolded.

So… two grim nights in the desert later, we roll into Lordsburg for our first resupply. This is, I dunno, 90 miles from the border; we are still in the boot heel of NM. Lordsburg is a blighted town and certainly has no outdoor gear, but, the EconoLodge is hiker-friendly as has a hiker box (the major trails have these, people ditch extra gear and food, others take it) and my fantasy was there’d be SOMETHING useable there. My fallback was going to be- don’t laugh- bubble wrap from the post office… maybe? This had to get me to Silver City, our next resupply, 4-5 days (nights) ahead.

Lo and behold, the hiker box, a table actually, had a pad! It was a huge, heavy AF, old Sea to Summit self-inflator, like the old-school Thermarests. And it had a rip, which was circled in sharpie as you can see. I figured even if it wouldn’t hold air, it was far better than nothing, so I grabbed it. Somewhat miraculously, Tenacious Tape fixed the rip and it held air! And the dang thing was actually quite comfortable. But it was big and ungainly and made look like (even more of) a dork.



I did get a trail name out of the deal. Can you guess it? It turned out to be prescient as there were several more “rips” in my future on this trip.



While in Lordsburg I got on the horn and got a warranty replacement from Big Agnes headed to Doc Campbells- two resupplies ahead- and a NEMO Switchback dimpled foam pad from REI headed to our next stop, Silver City. I had decided to never be without a backup foam pad, after my two nights on the cold hard ground. The best-laid plans…..

To be continued…..

So, I used that green STS pad from Lordsburg to Silver City and it was quite comfy. In hindsight, I probably should’ve just carried that thing the rest of the way, but keep in mind at that point we had roughly 5 weeks of trip still ahead; it seemed worth it to fix the issue properly….

…. and YET, I didn’t want to just throw money at it without even tryiny stuff first. The high-end ultralight inflatables are not cheap… some are noisy, some you feel like you’re gonna fall off them, and so on. Plus, in theory I had a warranty BA pad two stops in the future, and a NEMO Switchback foam at the next stop. Problem solved! Ha…

Got to Silver City and headed to the post office for our resupply box and my NEMO foam pad from REI. Resupply box is there, pad is not. I had paid for the fastest shipping they’d do, to general delivery, and it should have had plenty of buffer to get there… fawk. Call REI. They do their voodoo and determine it has vanished into a shipping vortex. They offer to fast-ship one to our next stop, Doc Campbells Trading Post, which occurs just prior to entering the Gila for our longest segment between resupplies @ 10 days. I take them up on this. However… Silver City does have a “Hike & Bike” shop that has (1) Thermarest Z-line (or something like that- the equivalent to the dimpled foam NEMO). I’m tired of carrying the STS. The foam Thermarest is cheap. So I bought it, and ditched the STS in their hiker box for some other unfortunate person in dire straights to use.

So I then gained a week’s experience sleeping on a single dimpled pad, specifically the blue/silver Thermarest Z- line. I do not recommend doing this. It kept the wheels on the cart, but by 4 am I was usually out of positions I could tolerate sleeping in and would just lay there on my back waiting for dawn. On a positive note, this pad (and the NEMO Switchback) are awesome during the day; you can deploy them easily and flop down anywhere, for a break or whatever. Can’t hurt ‘em.



Anyway, we get to Doc Campbells, which is remote, and my BA warranty replacement inflatable is not there. To BA’s credit, they tried to FedEx it to me on their dime, but it turns out FedEx won’t usually deliver up there, or at least not in a timely fashion. It’s Sunday, can’t get hold of BA customer service, and once we leave Doc’s we leave the wifi and dive into a canyon for a week with no signal… so I sent an email to BA asking that they re-route it to my home address. Fuggit, not going to keep trying to leapfrog it ahead…. But what IS there, at Doc’s, is the replacement NEMO Switchback from REI for the one that got lost in shipping. These are the orange/silver ones you see strapped to the outside of the packs of half the serious (young) hikers in America. It appears they work fine with younger bodies, not sure. So I now have in my possession, both a Thermarest and a NEMO version of a dimpled foam pad. I could still refuse the shipment and send the REI one back… but do I WANT to?! Ugh. Finally decided to hang onto it. And so that’s how I ended up doing the next month on TWO dimpled foam pads. Luckily, the dimple patterns are different, so they don’t “lock” together, which is one reason I decided to try using both… the other being a lack of other alternatives.

So here’s the report on THAT. It’s… tolerable. The R values add up to about 4; I never felt the cold coming through the two pads (I did feel it with just the Thermarest; I use a Katabatic quilt FWIW). My hips would get uncomfortable but if I dug a slight depression, when possible, that helped. There was enough padding that it wasn’t miserable by any stretch. But it also kinda sucked compared to the original, thick BA inflatable, and, worst of all, STILL wasn’t even what I wanted. And on top of that the BA warranty replacement they sent me, now waiting at home, was much heavier than the AXL version that had failed, so after all this pad chaos, it wasn’t even the right overall solution once I got home. D’oh!

(The dimpled pads are really bulky and carrying two of them was ungainly. I can get a pic off my wife’s phone if folks want to laugh at me and my two huge pads. )

In conclusion, for now anyway, I just tested out, then bought, what I *think* is my replacement for all this- a NEMO Tensor long/wide 3” thick inflatable. Seems really nice. Quiet, stable, about as light as these things get. My intention, I think, is for trips of any real length to carry both it and a single, foam, Switchback. I think I’m done with having just an inflatable; when (not if) they deflate, you got nuthin’, and that really sucks.

In terms of performance/weight I *think* the ultimate would be a thinner (2”?) lighter inflatable on top of the Switchback. But I’m a big guy and those all seem to be in narrow, “mummy” shapes. I want rectangular.

i have came to the same conclusion as you--always have a foam pad along

but i do add an inflatable.

I've had a Thermarest Performance Series 1-1/4" for about 25 years.
Sometimes I combine it with a 1/2" foam pad.
It's awesome.

Weight and bulk are, as always, where it gets weird. For shorter trips it’s less relevant. If I’m going to keep tagging along with my wife’s obsession to do these huge ones, I gotta mind my P’s and Q’s. With that being said- and to the original point of this thread- sleeping ok out there is really crucial as far as recovery for the next day and the next and so on.

I typically carry a ccf sitpad (usually a cut down Z-Rest) and purposely make it longer (40") than really needed for sitting as my just in case my inflatable is unrepairable. Adds weight obviously, but gives me a good seat and adds to the warmth of my main pad.

I've been using a TR Xtherm for about 10 years (lots and lots of nights), it's a little heavier fabric (more durable) than the lighter Neoairs and substantially warmer. I see they now have a new Xtherm out now that is 1/2" thicker, a little higher R value and still weighs the same as the original.

I also have a newer TR Uberlite that I use occasionally in the summer- it's really light, but less durable and less warm. It's reserved for shorter and really trimmed down trips with warmer weather (brought it to my Arizona trip last month)

Good plan. I’m fairly obsessed with my “sleep system” so I’m going next-level and just eating the weight. I think it’s a combo of age, being stupid tall, and maybe just being a wuss but if I’m not on a pretty good pad, I’m not sleeping well at all, and if I’m not sleeping well it cascades into my overall physical well-being to an alarming extent, in the context of an ongoing hike.

Beware the TR Uberlight; Cyn’s started blowing internal baffles on our trip and by the end was unusable. Then she was back to her short NEMO Switchback. She’s currently dealing with TR customer service and we expect they’ll send her a new one…

Another consideration is getting you/your bag or quilt off the tent bathtub; this won’t matter if the tent is properly set up and working right. Our Duplex reached a tipping point this trip, after roughly 5 years/3000 miles, and developed numerous pinholes, mainly at stress points. It was quite stormy the last week of our trip and we got to experience some puddling in the bathtub. I was “above it all” on my TWO full-length foam pads, but since I’m so tall, I still had to be very careful. Cyn had just her short NEMO SB at that point and it was a problem keeping her quilt dry.

We’ve repaired the Duplex, hopefully, back here at home and hope to get this season out of it (Cyn is likely headed back to the CDT). The repair tape is pretty miraculous.

Here’s a product I wish existed. A thin, light foam pad with a thorn-proof layer of something (Tyvek?) bonded to one side. It would serve as both a backup and as protection for an inflatable from thorns coming through the ground cloth or bathtub, and as a daytime flop-down pad.

The dimpled foam pads do this, mostly, but as you might have seen in AZ it’s possible to get a thorn right through them or, worse (for an inflatable) a thorn can break off in the foam, and be hidden, and only poke out under body weight. Saw that happen.

Klymit Static V Luxe insulated air mattress.

https://klymit.gathroutdoors.com/products/static-v-luxe-sleeping-pad?color=gray

Acclimation.

Found that the trouble - was the really nice bed at home.

Therm-a-Rest Z Lite Sol Sleeping Pad, and a USGI Foam Sleeping Pad under that when the ground is really cold, works pretty well - once you get used to it.

So try sleeping on the floor at home for two weeks before your Season starts.

Also, playing handball, and the associate stretching along with it, keeps the joints and ligaments stretched out and swept out, so they don't gripe as much.

Ju-Jutsu is also good.




GR

Interesting. Heavy! But interesting.

This is what I got. It’s about 6 oz lighter…


https://www.nemoequipment.com/products/tensor


I’m going to be putting a brand new, never inflated Big Agnes Rapidé (the warranty replacement I just got from them) in the Classifieds if anyone is interested.