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For those who have experience with this bullet, what is the minimum impact velocity it will still expand reliably at?
Ive got a good load worked up in an H&H that is spitting them out at 2300 and some change. Accuracy is good, recoil very, very mild, but not sure they will expand reliably on black bear and deer size animals out to 100-150 yds.
Speer states its built to withstand impact velocities up to 2900 fps at the muzzle, but also lists it in the 375 win rifle and contender load data???
So thinking I'll be alright but would love to hear some concrete evidence.
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Tom,
I've been shooting a reduced charge of H4895 in my Win. M70 375 H&H for quite some time with this bullet @ 2450 fps avg. and it opens up just fine on whitetails, pigs and the occasional coyote. My longest shot has been 180 yards and no bullets have been recovered.
I've tried the 220gr Hornady (which I now hoard for my 375 WCF) and they made a mess at 2500 fps, the Barnes Original 255gr FN shot tight groups and I recovered no bullets. I have yet to try the Sierra 200gr in a reduced load in the 375 H&H.
I'm using 64.0 - 65.0 gr. of H4895 (depending on lot), in a neck sized WW case with a Fed. 215.
It's a great way to use my 375 H&H and it's fun at the bench as well.
Regards
StarchedCover
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Yeah Im using 62 gr of H4895 in a Hornady case. Just cant decide if I should stay where Im at or bump it up to 2500ish for better expansion.
Have your longer shots shown good expansion judging by the size of the exit?
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Tom,
This is not a very scientific method but the exit holes where a little bit smaller than a quarter, a pig shoulder exit wound at a bit over 100 yards was a little larger.
So far nothing has run more than 30 yards and it was a broadside behind the shoulder shot on a SC whitetail less that 100 yards from my stand.
I haven't had any issues with "bloodshot" meat or bone fragments blown all through a shoulders using this load, so more meat ends up in the freezer.
Good luck with your experiment.
Be safe in the woods this fall.
Regards
StarchedCover
Last edited by StarchedCover; 08/20/17. Reason: typo
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Thanks Starch. I'll either bump it up a bit or set some newspaper out at 150 as Fotis suggested.
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Used them at 3/4 load rate around 2500 fps and they worked well on rabbits, deer, javelina and hogs. This velocity allowed me to keep the same sight setting as my 250 grain loads is the reason why I stopped there. I feel like Elmer Fudd and his bazooka when hunting rabbits with it. Head shots only if you want to eat them.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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200 grain Sierra FN is no slouch.
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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I used them reduced in a 376 Steyr @ 2500 .
Never recovered a one and never had a deer take a step.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Anyone use them on game from a .375 Winchester?
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No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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if you are talking about the 235 then they are too hard for the 375 win. The 200 grain Sierra FN is great!
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if you are talking about the 235 then they are too hard for the 375 win. The 200 grain Sierra FN is great! Speer didn't think so when I talked to them last week and suggested 1,000 ft-lbs (1,375fps) for deer and 1,500 ft-lbs (1,517fps) for elk. In any case, I now have two boxes to play with. Will try them in water jugs at different velocities. My rifle loved the discontinued Hornady 220g. I like the velocity I get with the Sierra 200g but the accuracy is not as good.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Have now had a chance to build a dummy load and section a Speer 235g bullet.
Perhaps I'll get a chance tomorrow to show the sectioned bullet, along with a sectioned Sierra 200g. The interesting thing to me is the jacket on the Speer is actually thinner than that of the Sierra - at least in the front half of the Speer. An imprecise and informal test did not show any difference in the lead hardness between the two. This leads me to believe the Speer bullet will work in the .375 Win as far as upset and expansion is concerned. Time will tell.
There is a problem with loading the 235g Speer, however. That problem is related to the length of the ogive. With the bullet seated to max COL in brass trimmed to minimum length, the case mouth is on the ogive and the bullet is easily pushed back into the case itself. This, of course, would be bad if it happened under recoil and such a cartridge was then fired. Bad kaboom. I though perhaps a Lee crimp tool might fix the problem but after some study I don't think this would be an acceptable solution. A better solution would be to cut back the case by some amount. I'm guessing about .100" would be a good minimum and .125" might be better. This should not affect load data as the cartridge has to be loaded to 2.560" max COL and trimming the case does not change this.
If it expands at 1400fps, which is yet to be determined, the 235g Speer might be a better choice than either the 200g Sierra, the 220g Hornady or the 220g Les Volmer bullets. Comparing the loads below shows the slower, heavier Speer bullet would have higher retained velocity and energy at 300 yards: The first two loads use AA1680, WW brass and Rem 9-1/2 primers and were chrono'd using my Marlin 375 while the Speer load is from Speer #14 using Reloder 7. Drops are based a a 6" MPBR zero (max 3" rise or drop). Drifts are for a 10mph crosswind.
200g Sierra, 2396fps, 185 yd zero, 215 yd MPBR @ 300 yards = -18.8", 1347fps, 806fpe22.8" drift
220g Hornady, 2230fps, 175 yd zero, 205 yd MPBR @ 300 yards = -22.0", 1321fps, 853fpe, 22.0" drift
235g Speer, 2097fps, 172 yd zero, 202 yd MPBR @ 300 yards = -21.5", 1432fps, 1070fpe, 16.1" drift
Unfortunately, I won't be able to test any .375 Win loads for at least a couple weeks.
Speer does caution that if used in a rifle with a tube magazine, only one should be loaded in the magazine. There are probably multiple reasons for this. One might be Speer does not think the nose of the 235g bullet is sufficiently round (or flat, whatever) to prevent mag tube detonations. Another is probably the problem I mentioned above re the crimp on the ogive not being sufficient to prevent bullet setback. Compressed (e.g. max Reloder 7) loads would help with this issue. I think a Lee crimp on shortened brass would take care of this particular issue as well.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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The ones I have seen at "reduced" velocities did not fair too well expansion wise. That said I am sure Speer knows better that I .
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Either way FYI Cartridge : .375 Win.
Bullet : .375, 235, Speer SemiSP 2471
Useable Case Capaci: 34.026 grain H2O = 2.209 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.560 inch = 65.02 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 50000 psi, or 344 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 107 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
97 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 107.0 34.4 2.23 2173 97.3 49439 4796 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 107.0 31.4 2.03 2132 99.9 49259 4314 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 105.3 32.0 2.07 2097 98.0 50000 4298 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 107.0 34.7 2.25 2093 92.5 47388 4615 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 103.3 30.1 1.95 2093 100.0 50000 3958 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 36 99.7 30.4 1.97 2091 99.2 50000 4139 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223) 107.0 35.9 2.33 2090 91.0 46612 4656 1.145
SNPE Vectan SP 10 107.0 35.9 2.32 2090 91.0 46498 4660 1.146
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39 107.0 34.3 2.22 2089 98.5 41417 4594 1.181
Norma 200 107.0 32.8 2.13 2086 97.5 44956 4498 1.179
Hodgdon H335 107.0 36.6 2.37 2081 90.6 46550 4661 1.147
Hodgdon H4227 100.0 28.7 1.86 2073 99.7 50000 3957 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 92.2 27.0 1.75 2069 98.3 50000 4183 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 90.1 27.0 1.75 2069 98.3 50000 4183 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 96.0 31.4 2.04 2069 95.1 50000 4243 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 104.9 33.4 2.16 2068 91.1 50000 4349 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 90.6 28.4 1.84 2067 99.9 50000 3899 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 105.6 35.3 2.29 2064 89.4 50000 4378 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 107.0 30.6 1.99 2055 100.0 45692 3942 1.161
Lovex S053 100.8 28.4 1.84 2054 100.0 50000 3734 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 98.4 28.3 1.83 2048 99.3 50000 3892 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation 104.8 31.9 2.07 2047 92.9 50000 4145 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 107.0 34.7 2.25 2046 88.8 47779 4370 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 105.3 31.0 2.01 2037 93.3 50000 4065 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 107.0 30.1 1.95 2035 97.4 45159 4123 1.166
Kazan Sunar 308W 107.0 32.8 2.13 2030 95.8 46006 4170 1.173
Alliant Reloder-10x 107.0 31.7 2.05 2019 95.3 40084 4405 1.219
ReloadSwiss RS 30 93.6 25.8 1.67 2018 100.0 50000 3448 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 94.6 25.1 1.63 2004 100.0 50000 3310 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S265 95.7 27.6 1.79 1997 100.0 50000 3513 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 107.0 36.0 2.33 1992 86.7 41874 4319 1.209
ReloadSwiss RS 40 107.0 34.2 2.22 1991 87.5 41507 4350 1.209
ADI AR 2205 91.7 27.4 1.77 1980 100.0 50000 3448 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 107.0 36.3 2.35 1960 83.4 41255 4206 1.221
Hodgdon H322 107.0 32.6 2.11 1959 89.4 38550 4305 1.241
Accurate 2460 107.0 36.1 2.34 1958 85.5 38353 4324 1.251
Winchester 748 107.0 36.1 2.34 1955 83.5 38935 4417 1.240
Somchem S321 107.0 36.1 2.34 1954 83.9 38526 4385 1.246
Alliant Reloder-12 107.0 34.2 2.22 1952 89.7 39256 4219 1.238
Lovex D073.5 107.0 36.0 2.33 1951 85.3 37921 4308 1.257
SNPE Vectan BA6½ 104.1 26.8 1.74 1947 100.0 50000 3010 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 107.0 35.8 2.32 1940 81.9 41127 4140 1.232
Vihtavuori N130 107.0 31.4 2.03 1940 94.3 38756 4021 1.252
Vihtavuori N530 107.0 33.7 2.19 1937 83.7 38547 4243 1.250
Accurate 2015 107.0 32.1 2.08 1933 92.5 35634 4190 1.284
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 107.0 32.7 2.12 1923 93.3 33911 4395 1.294
PB Clermont PCL 507 107.0 35.0 2.27 1918 82.5 37220 4232 1.268
Hodgdon Benchmark 107.0 33.1 2.14 1916 85.5 39623 4023 1.255
Alliant AR-Comp 107.0 32.5 2.10 1912 92.9 33306 4366 1.304
Hodgdon CFE223 107.0 37.4 2.42 1897 77.8 37128 4274 1.275
IMR 8208 XBR 107.0 33.6 2.17 1891 82.4 36381 4073 1.285
Ramshot Wild Boar 107.0 35.9 2.32 1883 78.5 36165 4142 1.288
Hodgdon BL-C2 107.0 36.6 2.37 1881 79.6 34393 4291 1.304
Ramshot TAC 107.0 36.2 2.34 1875 75.5 37995 3971 1.278
Rottweil R901 107.0 31.9 2.07 1865 85.9 33168 4124 1.353
ADI AR 2206 107.0 33.2 2.15 1860 81.8 37862 3815 1.286
Hodgdon H4895 107.0 33.6 2.17 1859 79.4 33176 4120 1.326
Accurate 2520 107.0 35.4 2.29 1856 82.2 31680 4218 1.339
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation 107.0 33.3 2.16 1851 80.6 36293 3851 1.298
ADI AR 2206H 107.0 33.6 2.17 1849 78.4 33187 4060 1.330
Norma 202 107.0 33.0 2.14 1846 84.4 31785 4092 1.344
Lovex S060 107.0 32.7 2.12 1844 80.5 36722 3791 1.303
Somchem S335 107.0 32.8 2.13 1839 87.4 33050 3897 1.341
Somchem S341 107.0 36.1 2.34 1838 77.2 35308 3909 1.310
SNPE Vectan SP 9 107.0 34.7 2.25 1828 77.3 33363 3958 1.333
Vihtavuori N133 107.0 30.7 1.99 1818 89.5 32478 3738 1.347
SNPE Vectan SP 7 107.0 36.0 2.33 1817 73.9 33806 3856 1.332
Accurate 2495 107.0 32.8 2.13 1811 86.3 25569 4337 1.438
Norma 201 107.0 32.8 2.13 1810 80.2 30915 3959 1.375
Lovex D073.6 107.0 34.6 2.24 1805 80.6 29302 4079 1.383
PB Clermont PCL 516 107.0 35.8 2.32 1801 72.9 33427 3831 1.341
Vihtavuori N540 107.0 33.9 2.20 1800 82.4 30153 4002 1.378
IMR 3031 107.0 31.4 2.03 1799 84.0 28669 4086 1.394
Vihtavuori N140 107.0 32.9 2.13 1791 83.6 30551 3842 1.376
IMR 4895 107.0 33.6 2.17 1789 75.3 29647 3989 1.386
Rottweil R902 107.0 32.4 2.10 1765 78.8 29047 3799 1.412
Alliant Reloder-15 107.0 33.6 2.17 1763 73.7 29169 3852 1.401
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 107.0 33.6 2.17 1763 73.7 29169 3852 1.401
Raufoss RA11 107.0 33.6 2.17 1763 73.7 29169 3852 1.401
Ramshot Big Game 107.0 35.8 2.32 1756 72.0 30681 3802 1.386
Norma 203B 107.0 33.6 2.17 1754 74.2 28515 3851 1.412
ReloadSwiss RS 52 107.0 34.7 2.25 1742 74.3 28364 3915 1.419
Lovex S062 107.0 32.7 2.12 1741 77.3 27613 3772 1.431
ADI AR 2208 107.0 32.6 2.11 1737 73.9 30193 3604 1.400
IMR 4320 107.0 33.0 2.14 1731 73.0 30291 3586 1.399
Hodgdon VARGET 107.0 32.5 2.10 1731 73.7 29891 3585 1.406
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 107.0 34.7 2.25 1719 70.6 29181 3592 1.417
ReloadSwiss RS 50 107.0 34.9 2.26 1707 68.0 29518 3498 1.419
IMR 4064 107.0 31.7 2.05 1704 73.4 28309 3500 1.435
Hodgdon H380 107.0 34.3 2.22 1700 69.4 27421 3630 1.445
SNPE Vectan SP 11 107.0 34.7 2.25 1697 69.9 27681 3645 1.444
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 107.0 33.9 2.19 1692 66.2 31054 3278 1.404
IMR 4166 Enduron 107.0 32.1 2.08 1680 68.3 30006 3288 1.433
Accurate 4064 107.0 32.8 2.13 1677 78.0 21951 3894 1.547
Norma 203 old 107.0 33.9 2.20 1676 72.2 24683 3727 1.492
Bofors RP3 107.0 33.9 2.20 1676 72.2 24683 3727 1.492
Somchem S355 107.0 32.8 2.13 1663 72.1 24705 3586 1.500
IMR 4451 Enduron 107.0 33.2 2.15 1662 66.1 28538 3285 1.449
IMR 4007 SSC 107.0 34.0 2.21 1658 65.1 27821 3328 1.461
Vihtavuori N135 107.0 30.4 1.97 1653 81.1 23546 3552 1.523
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 107.0 33.3 2.16 1642 66.8 27897 3227 1.463
Accurate 2700 107.0 35.0 2.27 1633 64.8 28536 3118 1.464
Rottweil R903 107.0 33.2 2.15 1624 70.0 23105 3522 1.538
Alliant Reloder-17 107.0 35.2 2.28 1623 62.6 25677 3392 1.503
Elcho 17 107.0 35.2 2.28 1623 62.6 25677 3392 1.503
Hodgdon H414 107.0 35.5 2.30 1619 60.2 26205 3307 1.494
Winchester 760 107.0 35.5 2.30 1619 60.2 26205 3307 1.494
ReloadSwiss RS 60 107.0 35.2 2.28 1601 60.4 25303 3255 1.517
Bofors RP7 107.0 32.9 2.13 1598 63.2 25156 3160 1.523
Rottweil R907 107.0 32.9 2.13 1598 63.2 25156 3160 1.523
Vihtavuori N550 107.0 34.3 2.22 1594 63.5 23393 3379 1.548
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Campfire Outfitter
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Here is a photo of the 235g Speer loaded into a .375 Winchester cartridge. The case was trimmed back .136" from the minimum 2.010". Also shown is a loaded 200g Sierra. The Speer is loaded to 2.560" per spec, although it cycles and chambers at a somewhat longer length. The photo clearly shows the 235g Speer has a much thinner jacket at the nose than does the 200g Sierra. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/375_Winchester_-_235g_Speer.jpg) Ordered a Lee .375 Win crimp die. Without it the Speer is easy to push back into the case.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 08/30/17.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Hmm... makes me wonder about a .375-08. I'm sure someone has done that before.
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Hmm... makes me wonder about a .375-08. I'm sure someone has done that before. The .375 Scovill uses a 30-06 case.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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I'm thinking short action though.
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I remember reading about a .375-284 years ago in a Handloader's Digest. I believe a .284 Savage 99 was modified.
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