Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Length Of pull. Advice, please

Just bought a Tikka T3 Lite stock for my daughter,thanks HeavyBarrel.

We need to shorten it, but how much?

I watched the Boyd's stocks video, Mr. Boyd says that when you are looking through the
scope,the tip of your nose should be 5.75" behind the scope, measured by a mark on the
comb. The video shows it better than I can explain it.

We have some good smiths here, how do you all determine lop?

Thank you,
Karl

How would that work? Won't eye relief always be longer than the nose to scope distance? Am I visualizing that wrong?

I cant post links,but go to Boyds stock length you tube video. In essence you shoulder the gun naturally, without regard to eye relief. and then put a mark on apiece of tape on the comb.
Then measure to the scope. If less than 5 3/4 lengthen, if more shorten.

I really do not know how to do this for a less experienced shooter, and am looking for advice. Hoping for Redneck or one of the other experienced guys to chime in.
We do not need a big dam fight. I guess there are a lot of cats, and ways to skin 'em.

OK, I'll bow out. If you trust Mule Deer's advice, even though he's not a gunsmith per se, please click on the link I posted.

I must have been typing when you posted the link.
Funny, about the same time someone resurrected it.
I read it, then hit your link. Confused the crap out of me
for a second.
Anyway thanks, we have something to work with. Will
probably try MD's advice, and compare it to Boyd's. Be
Interested in what happens, probably 2 roads to the same
destination.

If it's a heavy barrel as you stated. It will be more difficult for her to shoot unsupported. Shooting from a supported position, with time availability, the body can conform to fit. As long as she has enough distance to keep from getting a scope eye or limited view.

In bolt rifles, when withdrawing the bolt all the way to the rear without breaking stock weld. You should have a small gap in space between the rear of the bolt and your shooting thumb, so you don't smack your face with the rear of the bolt. or your thumb. Stock contour will help or hinder.

Secondly. try to run the bolt to the most forward and rear position fairly swiftly. See which is most comfortable and doesn't require you to alter body position. You can add cardboard spacers as a temporary test to find your sweet spot.

Thirdly. eye relief can be a problem with longer LOP's. Most variables have enough relief in the 2-5x, but as you start cranking the power up. You start to stock crawl. Many of the problems is due to the "C" tube, the front tube of the scope being too short. Some extended bases or offset rings can help.

Depending on the age and potential for growth, the stock will have to be altered when needed. Try to have a couple of spacers made to fit in advance, so you can change at will.

Congratulations on introducing your daughter to shooting and best of luck to you.

Have enough latitude to move the scope a bit as required during growth is a good thing...

DO NOT USE A VARIABLE SCOPE with kids!!!!!!!!!!!!! Teach them at the lowest power (if forced to use one) and leave it there, period! You will almost undoubtedly regret letting kids in on the variable secret. It will compound their problems and make them guess when they should not be doing anything but maintaining focus. Let them in on the secret when they can handle a rifle proficiently.

Make them shoot in different field positions to show how different positions affect eye relief and scope placement. If that is too much for them the scope power issue would just make everything worse and is far less important than keeping their forehead skin intact.

As I noted on the linked thread I am 6'4" with ridiculously long arms and shoot very ordinary LOP guns.

It was Jack O'Conner that said Americans like their rifle stocks too long and their shotgun stocks too short.

The smiths will know what to do and you have received some good advice. I always do trial and error (a lot of this) and keep shouldering the rifle with eyes closed to see how close I am to an aiming point. Only do this a few times so you don't start compensating for poor fit. Leave it a little on the long side although your daughter probably already is past her first major growth spurt. Use a good half inch pad so you can increase the length in increments with just pads and spacers added.

Well I am a NRA/USAS Certified Advanced International Shooting Coach, and the way we determine length of pull is put the butt in the crook of her arm (bent elbow) and measure to the trigger finger in firing mode.

That's too easy doesn't leave room for discussion here that's the way I determine length of pull in guns that I'm build

Great! Get it simple enough for everyone to remember and forget the part about it actually being reliable.

I just measured by your method and arrived at 17.5". My actual preferred LOP on rifles is about 13.75". And for shotguns I add about one to two inches. That leaves me almost two inches shy of your number.I have seen many folks whose measurements are even farther off.

Obviously the OP is asking about rifles but that foolish number has been held as gospel by shotgunners as well for years and it is useless. Yes, many CAN shoot with guns that match their arm length, by why not use their Astrological sign, too? It is about as relevant.

Works for most humans, nothing is absolute. It is a darn good starting point and usually spot on. I learned that at the Olympic Training Center but what do they know.

ETA: I am strictly talking rifle here. The only advice I am qualified to give about shotguns is they fire shot shells.

If that is what they say about fitting rifles: not much. I come from a family with some pretty accomplished rifle shooters and built my first stock more than 50 years ago.

It is rare that it is spot on IMO&E.

I tried to find the information in their publications and could only find rules about how to become certified and maintain certification... a link to the information would be appreciated.

Funny, all I can find from them in their publications are things like stock adjustments to center NPA, but they do not mention measuring arms to determine LOP, not even once that I found. And those goofy-looking incredibly adjustable hooked butt plates are really lost on shooters because they do not need to adjust them at all, just set it right from the arm measurement, weld it up, and go???

There is a poster here that misses the mark on his forearm length by more than 2.5" more than me and we are the same height, exactly...

King Kong?

Kinda skinny dude actually, but arms like Clyde!

And surely you cannot confuse me with King Kong!?!?! I am way prettier than that ape!

There is a huge difference between fitting a common hunting rifle for general use in the Basic Rfile Course and the complexities of a Free Rifle or Air Rifle (Standard Rifle) for that matter of an advanced competitor.

Two things to consider on the hunting rifle fit are LOP and comb height. I will not go into the details of butt plate adjustments of the International competitor, but will say most have three pre adjusted assemblies for competition; one for Standing, one for Prone, and one for Kneeling. Rules must be followed when adjusting.

To be able to find the text, pay the fee, take the course, get the lesson plan. Page 136 when you get all that done.

Give it a break. I said nothing is absolute, but it is the tried and true method, and as I said it is usually spot on. And that is in the text as well.

WOW! You only look at two things for hunting rifle fit? That is some in-depth training!

So why have I wasted so much time with cast and pitch?

That method is so far from tried-and-true as to be ridiculous.