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The truck driver was not under arrest.
Cop had no warrant and could not get one because he had no probable cause.
The driver being unconscious meant he could not give consent.
The nurse was right on ALL 3 reasons.
The guy that wrote that article just added a 4th reason that the cop was wrong and the nurse was right.[/quote]

I would like to add something to this I have not seen mentioned here. The innocent truck driver is a CDL driver. Ant time a CDL driver is involved in an accident they will be drug tested. It is federal law, a CDL driver agrees to it and waves any rights when he signs his CDL. As a friend in law enforcement said elsewhere if a deer run int the side of your truck you will be tested. The officer was within his rights to request a test and did not need any of the requirements to listed above.


Now do I believe the nurse was right in denying at that moment I would have to say deficiently yes. The blood sample or urine sample could have waited without loss of integrity. Was the officer wrong in his response, your damned right he was. Has the department done the right thing, yes. Policies have changed and lessons learned. I seriously doubt the officer will wear a badge again. Lessons learned, time to move on.

Now this being the Campfire I expect to get roasted. Go ahead, I can handle the heat.


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There was a situation in a Bountiful hospital (just north of Salt Lake City) that started similarly, but ended very differently.

Two North Salt Lake PD officers brought in a psych case, and completed the paperwork to turn the patient over to the hospital. Then they decided that they wanted a blood sample. The nurse told them that was not allowed, and the NSLPD officers became loud and unprofessional.

The difference was that the security guy on duty immediately interposed himself between the officers and the nurse. He explained to the officers that if they kept it up, they were going to jail. Then he kicked them out of the ER, and he made it stick.

Of course, this particular security officer is very protective of the hospital staff. He's the one who walks nurses to their car when there is a shift change at night.


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One of my Grandaughters'" other Grandpa" is a retired WFPD officer who now works security at the local hospital. According to my Daughter, who works in Human Resources there,he has ordered cops out of the hospital on more than one occasion when they raised their voices to hospital employees.


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Originally Posted by denton
There was a situation in a Bountiful hospital (just north of Salt Lake City) that started similarly, but ended very differently.

Two North Salt Lake PD officers brought in a psych case, and completed the paperwork to turn the patient over to the hospital. Then they decided that they wanted a blood sample. The nurse told them that was not allowed, and the NSLPD officers became loud and unprofessional.

The difference was that the security guy on duty immediately interposed himself between the officers and the nurse. He explained to the officers that if they kept it up, they were going to jail. Then he kicked them out of the ER, and he made it stick.

Of course, this particular security officer is very protective of the hospital staff. He's the one who walks nurses to their car when there is a shift change at night.


I bet that story gives you wood every time you retell it. Do you picture yourself in the role of the security guard when you tell it?


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Originally Posted by Scott F


I would like to add something to this I have not seen mentioned here. The innocent truck driver is a CDL driver. Ant time a CDL driver is involved in an accident they will be drug tested. It is federal law, a CDL driver agrees to it and waves any rights when he signs his CDL. As a friend in law enforcement said elsewhere if a deer run int the side of your truck you will be tested. The officer was within his rights to request a test and did not need any of the requirements to listed above.
.

Hi Scott, the SCOTUS threw out implied consent.
As another trucker pointed out it is the responsibility of his employer to obtain the blood test . There is no criminal penalty for a truck driver who refuses to submit a blood sample. They will just suspend his license. For the police to demand a blood sample they must arrest him, get a warrant or the driver must be able to actively give his consent.
In the link that Steve4102 posted it is explained the the reason the cop gave for getting the sample (to prove the drivers innocence) is not allowed under the law.
It is an illegal demand.


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Thanks, new since I was a driver.


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A few questions I had in my mind about the information the police had on the driver of the commercial driver and his rig.

1. Was it Enter or Intra State commerce.

2. Was license and health card up to date.

3.Was the vehicle inspection and daily inspection current.

4. Was log book up to date.

5. Was the vehicle overloaded.

It would seem to me if there was any discrepancies they would have obtained a warrant at the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by 60n148w
A few questions I had in my mind about the information the police had on the driver of the commercial driver and his rig.

1. Was it Enter or Intra State commerce.

2. Was license and health card up to date.

3.Was the vehicle inspection and daily inspection current.

4. Was log book up to date.

5. Was the vehicle overloaded.

It would seem to me if there was any discrepancies they would have obtained a warrant at the very beginning.


You're making the mistake of thinking these cops were reasonable people. Obviously they weren't.


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Originally Posted by 60n148w
A few questions I had in my mind about the information the police had on the driver of the commercial driver and his rig.
1. Was it Enter or Intra State commerce.
2. Was license and health card up to date.
3.Was the vehicle inspection and daily inspection current.
4. Was log book up to date.
5. Was the vehicle overloaded.
It would seem to me if there was any discrepancies they would have obtained a warrant at the very beginning.


None of that was relevant in this case.

Ed


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by 60n148w
A few questions I had in my mind about the information the police had on the driver of the commercial driver and his rig.
1. Was it Enter or Intra State commerce.
2. Was license and health card up to date.
3.Was the vehicle inspection and daily inspection current.
4. Was log book up to date.
5. Was the vehicle overloaded.
It would seem to me if there was any discrepancies they would have obtained a warrant at the very beginning.


None of that was relevant in this case.

Ed


Any discrepancy or violation has to be causal to the accident to be admissible as evidence.


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Originally Posted by steve4102
Quote
As written, Utah’s law only permits an officer to conduct such a test where he has reasonable grounds to believe that a person from whom blood is to be taken was driving “while in violation of” the laws regarding driving under the influence of alcohol or other substances. In this case, the detective specifically lacked any such grounds, because the draw was being taken to show the opposite – that the driver was not under the influence. Utah’s implied consent law did not authorize this particular blood draw under these particular circumstances.


http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/comme...se-was-wrong-but-the-law-is-complicated/


This is a terrible legal analysis from a former federal judge turned law professor. The holding from the Supreme Court is clear that non-consensual blood draws require a warrant. As such, criminal "refusal" statutes are on their face unconstitutional and many have been voided as a result of the holding. Even if civil penalties for refusing are still permissible, getting warrantless blood draw under a such a statute would still invalidate the prosecution of any criminal case that would follow. So the default is that warrant is required for blood draw without consent. Period.

End he is further wrong about the rationale of the nurse...she was relying on the agreement in place between the hospital and the police agency...not the law.

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Originally Posted by DocRocket
... a longstanding history of conflict between police agencies in Salt Lake City with hospitals, and
this particular hospital especially. The fact that these conflicts have been ongoing for YEARS in this locale and have
yet to be corrected suggests that the failure of leadership in that hospital and those LEA's is endemic ...


By what informed authority or investigative evidence can you claim that the hospitals in question have poor leadership in place
that has contributed to long term conflicts with LE..?

This is a case of LE (both individual and chain of command) failing to honor the previously co-signed blood withdrawal agreement.
further, the blood draw law LE was trying to hustle the hospital with, became defunct in Utah 2007.

If you have any verifiable reported evidence concerning the history of those area hospitals being at fault, or unlawful, belligerent,
obstructive, or failing to honor agreements ,please present it.

The mere fact LE were required to conduct their own de-escalation training program, seems to acknowledge they may be the
cause of long term conflicts with hospitals.

" The Salt Lake City Council issued a statement at Tuesday’s formal meeting. Chairman Stan Penfold said that;
“all seven council members” shared the public’s concern about the incident.
“We stand united in our believe that it is unacceptable,” he said. “It was especially frustrating in light of
the police department has made recently on [de-escalation] training. This is a big step back on those efforts, which is disappointing.”


all the progress on de-escalation...??....so in other words Police Dept. had an identified major issue with escalating situations
involving its officers in the field.


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Are 'blood withdrawal agreements' common in large cities?

When I need blood I:
A) Take individual to hospital (or follow)
B) Read DSMV426 and hope they refuse (normal arrest)
Or
C) Have a [bleep] warrant in hand for a 'serious' DWI that will cover multiple blood draws.

18 years.......only one issue with a nurse who simply didn't understand a warrant.


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Originally Posted by NH K9
Are 'blood withdrawal agreements' common in large cities?

When I need blood I:
A) Take individual to hospital (or follow)
B) Read DSMV426 and hope they refuse (normal arrest)
Or
C) Have a [bleep] warrant in hand for a 'serious' DWI that will cover multiple blood draws.

18 years.......only one issue with a nurse who simply didn't understand a warrant.



18 years and you've only had one problem. 30 years and Doc Rocket hasn't had any he couldn't talk his way out of. I wonder why that is?
What could the common denominator possibly be?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by 60n148w
A few questions I had in my mind about the information the police had on the driver of the commercial driver and his rig.
1. Was it Enter or Intra State commerce.
2. Was license and health card up to date.
3.Was the vehicle inspection and daily inspection current.
4. Was log book up to date.
5. Was the vehicle overloaded.
It would seem to me if there was any discrepancies they would have obtained a warrant at the very beginning.


None of that was relevant in this case.

Ed


Any discrepancy or violation has to be causal to the accident to be admissible as evidence.


Looking at the cop's dashcam videos shows absolutely no causality on the part of the burn victim. He was in the far lane, minding his own bidness when some mother's wayward son crossed all those lanes and hit him head-on. Kinda hard to place any causality on him. Unless it's now an offense to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wouldn't put it past the friggin' bureaucrats to put that one in the DOT regs.


Ed


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by NH K9
Are 'blood withdrawal agreements' common in large cities?

When I need blood I:
A) Take individual to hospital (or follow)
B) Read DSMV426 and hope they refuse (normal arrest)
Or
C) Have a [bleep] warrant in hand for a 'serious' DWI that will cover multiple blood draws.

18 years.......only one issue with a nurse who simply didn't understand a warrant.



18 years and you've only had one problem. 30 years and Doc Rocket hasn't had any he couldn't talk his way out of. I wonder why that is?
What could the common denominator possibly be?

Good Leadership...........


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Quote
18 years and you've only had one problem. 30 years and Doc Rocket hasn't had any he couldn't talk his way out of. I wonder why that is?
What could the common denominator possibly be?


Possibly common sense, courtesy, and an understanding of the law?


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Originally Posted by denton
Quote
18 years and you've only had one problem. 30 years and Doc Rocket hasn't had any he couldn't talk his way out of. I wonder why that is?
What could the common denominator possibly be?


Possibly common sense, courtesy, and an understanding of the law?



There you go, letting the cat out of the bag! Now everyone will know the secret and we won't have anything to bitch about ten+ pages!

How dare you! laugh

Ed


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Youre right, Ed. As i said, anybody die?

Youd think a rancher was killed in his front yard over a bull in his driveway. Sheesh.


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