Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles .17 Hornet...ugh.

Mule Deer,

I have really warmed up to my CZ Varminter. Plenty accurate and after I monkeyed with it and got it to feed it has been great.

I am still struggling with the hand loading for it though.

My least favorite activity at the bench is case prep. I dont mind so much the chamfer and deburr process, but cutting primer pockets is lame.

Most of the pockets are the correct depth, but all of the pockets need chamfered so a primer will seat and not crush. I imagine its like crimped brass.

I understand that buying empty brass is silly when loaded ammo is so cheap, but I would rather not buy a bunch more ammo with goofy primer pockets.

Is there a way to look up lot numbers to be able to tell if the ammo inside the box has good pockets? I assume the more recent ammo is good to go, but my luck would be to buy a bunch of older stuff.

Is there a lot number break you are aware of?


Secondly, I could use some guidance on a powder measure......specifically the adapters for each caliber size.

I use an older Uniflow that I bought new probably 15 years ago. It was the style with the screw in adapters. I did not have a .17 adapter for it so I had to "upgrade" to the slip in O ring style from RCBS.

I find these adapters to be much worse than the old screw in style. They are bulkier and deeper. I had to shave a bunch off the .17 adapter to get it to where it would not spill as much powder. There is still a gap around the case mouth and a 17 hornet case will slip right through the hole.

AA 1680 is fine granulated, as you know, and it does not bridge the gap.


What measure and adapter are you using for your .17 Hornet activities?

Thanks in advance

Jim Conrad

Jim, I have a 4" clear plastic drop tube that screws right into my uniflow. I've had it forever, so can't remember the maker. It has a gray plastic 17 cal tip that fits the hornet perfectly. The nice thing is, if powder does bridge, you can see it and give the handle another tap to finish the fill....... Maybe MD does something different.

Thanks. That looks ideal!

I did not know that other companies made products that would fit the Uniflow. I will look into that.

Hi Jim,

I use a Redding BR-30 measure with a Redding .17 caliber adapter, which friction-fits onto the outside of the standard spout. But in the past have purchased plastic .17 funnels and cut them off, taping them to the spout of other measures. This works too, but doesn't look nearly as slick as the adapter Huntsman uses!

I don't know what lot numbers of .17 Hornet brass have problem primer pockets, but maybe Hornady will provide that info. The one batch I got that had the shallow pockets was once-fired brass purchased off the Campfire Classifieds. I used a stout drill motor with a Redding pocket uniformer to deepen around 250 pockets, but would just as soon not do it again.

That said, I use so many different kinds of brass that some inevitably needs the edges of the primer pockets chamfered. These days I use the same drill motor with a 45-degree wood-screw countersink, giving it just enough of a zip to knock the edge off. Just did this a couple weeks ago with 200 pieces of once-fired Black Hills .308 match brass, and it didn't take long at all.

Glad you're liking the little .17. There's a lot to like!

Would a Dillon primer pocket swage work? Seems like it would make things go a lot faster.

Higbean,

I do 'em a lot faster than that with a drill motor and countersink. I mount the motor with countersink in a bench vise, and have two plastic trays, one with brass to be chamfered and the other empty. I turn the motor on, grab case from the first tub, touch the primer pocket to the spinning countersink, and throw the case in the empty tub.

Countersinks cost a few bucks at a hardware store.

Thanks for the replies and ideas everyone.

Huntsman22, I looked around and it looks like Sinclair has a similar set up for sale.

They have a steel adapter that screws into the Uniflow measure. Then you slide a clear acrylic drop tube into the adapter and set it with a screw.

The drop tube is pre made with the correct size hole in the bottom, rather than a grey plastic unit like yours.

Might be just what I need.

Seems like Sinclair has a good reputation on the internets, yeah? Never used their products before.



As it stands now, I drop the charge into a pan and dump it into the case using the .17 funnel from RCBS. Its really not all that slow.....I must just be impatient.

That is a very good funnel, never spills a kernel. Next step would be to cut it off and tape it to the Uniflow.......

to bad I just ordered the RCBS adapter for my Uniflo oh well, guess until Jim reports on his new Sinclair drop tube I'll just keep using the funnel. Thanks to all about the primer pocket info I was hoping it wasn't just me.

Normally, I forget what I was doing and dont place the order. Then in a few months I seem to ask the same question again.

Not this time! Just placed an order with Sinclair. I will let youse guys know how it works.


I ordered an adapter and a couple drop tubes. We will see.

Sinclair's stuff is usually very good.

Have you got a link or the stock # ? I looked, couldn't find it.

Thanks.

Tube part number is 749-001-360

Adapter part number is 749-002-916

Off the Brownells/Sinclair website.

Thanks !

another 'hint from heloise'..... when dropping powder into the 17's, drop slow and kinda trickle it in instead of a fast, normal dump. 'specially with powders that may bridge.

With a powder measure?

I thought they just had one gear........over drive!


I will try that.

Which is why I decided a number of years ago to only use spherical powders in .17-caliber cartridges. Don't like not being able to use overdrive.

To be honest, I had considered trying 3031 in the 17 just so it would not flow out past the case mouth and all over my loading block.

Hopefully this new drop tube steers me away from such silliness.


On a side note, I wish they would come out with a SSC version of 3031.

not enough of us 3031 users to warrant that.... too bad

I made that comment on here a while ago and was informed of a VV powder that is just like 3031 but fine grained.

Be damned if I can remember the number now.

VV 130, IMR3031, VV133 in this order on the Hodgon burn rate chart
I think I may have some VV130 I will have to compare the manuals tonight..... OH boy another project UGH

Geesh, I can't wait until 14 cals become popular.

Haved used 1680 from the get go and will continue to use it. I really don't need another project.

i am going to try CFE BLK as soon as i get a chance.

Ed

It seems to give about the same velocities in the books as 1680.

If anything, it might be finer grained than 1680....should meter well.


Maybe be a bit more temp stable too. No experience with that, but seems like folks have said that 1680 is not as stable as others.


CFE BLK works well in my .221 FB ar-15.

1680 has worked well for me in my 17 Hornet and 22 K hornet especially in my used to be mine 14 H&R mag

Jim,

I have four pounds of CFE 223 on hand for testing in various small varmint rounds, but haven't gotten to it yet.

Shot a hot-weather test with 1680 this past summer, on a 90+ degree day with the rounds "greenhoused" inside a clear plastic bag with a small thermometer until the temperature read 115. The velocity was 87 fps over its average 70-degree reading, but POI at 100 was the same, accuracy was still good to go for gophers, and there wasn't the slightest sign of high pressure. That was with 12.0 grains of powder, 20-grain Varmageddons, and Rem. 7-1/2's.

Thats good info, thanks.

Cant remember where I read where 1680 was temp sensitive.

I tried to figure out if CFE 223 was going to be good in a .17 Fireball but Hogdon did not recommend it I guess.

The CFE BLK might be good. I seem to build some copper in that barrel,

It's pushing my .221 Fireball to 3550 with a 40 grain v max out of a 21 inch barrel.

My understanding based on a conversation with a friend who's been in the commercial reloading biz for decades is that CFE BLK is basically the same powder as 680 which is basically the same as 1680.

Thats interesting.

In my .221 AR, CFE BLK runs around 400 fps faster than 1680.

While I load for a 221FB in a CZ, I haven't tried any CFE BLK yet. But take a look at the burn rate charts in the following two links, and note the positions of Win 680, Accurate 1680 and CFE BLK relative to each other. Of course, the caveat applies that all powders can and do shift positions on a burn rate chart depending on their application in different cartridges.
Ramshot/Accurate Burn Rate Chart
Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart

Jim,

ALL powders gain some pressure, and hence velocity, as temperatures rise above 70 degrees, but temp-resistant powders gain less. Others can vary from results like 1680's, which are obviously OK, to some that will blow primers or lock up bolts on a hot summer afternoon on a gopher or prairie dog town. And if course barrel temperature affect everything too.

On the same hot day I tested the .17 with 1680, I also tested my .204 with its usual prairie dog load, the 40-grain V-Max and a max charge of Ramshot TAC. It only gained 24 fps from 70 to 115 degrees.

Good information John, thanks.


MT DD FAN...your friend might be right. While the two powders look different, they do produce some of the same types of velocities now.

My old Sierra book listed the 1680 loads as 400 FPS slower than Western lists theirs now.

My 17FB coppers fouls a bit....thats why I picked up a can of BLK. Thought it was worth a try.

I dont know about .17-20 cal screw in drop tube for the Uniflow.

I did not see that when I ordered the Quick Change adapters. I do not like the quick change models, and much prefer the screw in type.

The screw in type for the Uniflow looks to be made of metal too......it might be a good unit.

Anyway, the Sinclair stuff showed up the other day. It looks just like the set up that Huntsman22 showed.

You have to buy an adapter for the Uniflow. After that you buy drop tubes for each caliber.

I ordered a .22 tube and a 17-20 tube.

The 22 tube is clear lexan. The 17 tube is the same but with a hardened plastic or maybe aluminum tip on the end. I assume because the little 17 cases are quite sharp after you chamfer them.

The Sinclair setup works great! I did spill one charge of CFE BLK powder but it was because I did not have it lined up properly. CFE and TAC are about the finest grained powder I use.....it looks like dust.

No other grains were spilled. The clear lexan makes it easy to see if a charge is brigded. Not a problem with the CFE powder, but R7 and 8208 can bridge. Handy to be able to see.

One nice feature of the Sinclair tubes is that they are use a simple cone design. No fancy angles or shoulders or anything. I have noticed that once in a while a freshly chamfered case will get stuck in a drop tube, or the case mouth will hang up. This usually jars the whole load block and spills powder out of the already charged cases.

The Sinclair tubes will not allow the case mouth to enter the center hole, solving this problem.

I am very pleased with these Sinclair products.

Thanks for the report.

I wish I could drop the powder straight into the 17 hornet case but my lee powder measure just isn't up to the job. It's the only caliber I load for so doesn't warrant spending loadsa money on. This thread has given me the idea of a drop tube though, especially when using Trail Boss because the donut shapes bounce a lot no matter how close I hold the pan. I've even seen the buggars bounce out of the pan frpm the trickler. A deeper pan would be very useful.
I only use the TB when searching for a quiet, short range, reloadable round. So far I've got 2.6gr TB behind a 17gr Vmax and it's already quieter than hmr @ 100yds.
Normal powder Is LilGun but I've just got some Lovex D063 (AA1680) which I will switch to.

Hey, if anyone wants a Sinclair drop tube for a Lyman powder measure....shoot me a PM.

I ordered one by mistake.

.17 caliber.

Jim, Is it specific to the Lyman powder measure?