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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine.
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IMO...no such thing as "ultimate" rifle round. Too many variables in hunting and personal likes/dislikes in target/competitive shooting for there to be a single cartridge that is the ultimate.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'll agree it is the Ultimate Latest Hyped Rifle Round.....
to hear some folks talk how did we ever live without it?
oh wait, wasn't there something similar years ago...
like something called a 250 Savage?
and on second thought, isn't it trying to reinvent the wheel comparing it to the 260?
I don't read those mags anymore and haven't for years...
if I need any gunwriter input in life, few can get a more down to earth perspective
than our own John Barsness....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Glad that has been settled
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'll agree it is the Ultimate Latest Hyped Rifle Round.....
to hear some folks talk how did we ever live without it?
oh wait, wasn't there something similar years ago...
like something called a 250 Savage?
and on second thought, isn't it trying to reinvent the wheel comparing it to the 260?
I don't read those mags anymore and haven't for years...
if I need any gunwriter input in life, few can get a more down to earth perspective
than our own John Barsness.... The little 250, while being a favorite of mine, is not comparable to the 6.5CM when it comes to downrange ballistics. As far as the 260 goes, it being another cartridge I like quite a bit, the 6.5CM actually does make a few improvements and John Barsness has outlined them. I'm not a big fan of change for its own sake either, but sometimes you seem even slower than me to accept a positive change.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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In other news, Hornady, Nosler, Remington and Olin Ammunition laid off their entire R&D departments since they are no longer needed....
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not sure how one would ascertain that? I mean "ultimate" is very subjective. Ultimate for what? It's not the ultimate Bear or Moose round. Ultimate deer round? Maybe.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
I'll agree it is the Ultimate Latest Hyped Rifle Round.....
to hear some folks talk how did we ever live without it?
oh wait, wasn't there something similar years ago...
like something called a 250 Savage?
and on second thought, isn't it trying to reinvent the wheel comparing it to the 260?
I don't read those mags anymore and haven't for years...
if I need any gunwriter input in life, few can get a more down to earth perspective
than our own John Barsness.... The little 250, while being a favorite of mine, is not comparable to the 6.5CM when it comes to downrange ballistics. As far as the 260 goes, it being another cartridge I like quite a bit, the 6.5CM actually does make a few improvements and John Barsness has outlined them. I'm not a big fan of change for its own sake either, but sometimes you seem even slower than me to accept a positive change. The few tangible advantages that the 6.5 Creedmoor has over the 260 Remington are only valuable if they are useful to the shooter in question. For example, if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm not sure how one would ascertain that? I mean "ultimate" is very subjective. Ultimate for what? It's not the ultimate Bear or Moose round. Ultimate deer round? Maybe. Ultimate as in the last rifle you buy before you die 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The few tangible advantages that the 6.5 Creedmoor has over the 260 Remington are only valuable if they are useful to the shooter in question.
For example, if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they are negatives if you don't take advantage of them. Upside for those that do use them, no downside for those that don't.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not sure how one would ascertain that? I mean "ultimate" is very subjective. Ultimate for what? It's not the ultimate Bear or Moose round. Ultimate deer round? Maybe. Ultimate as in the last rifle you buy before you die In that case it would be the penultimate rifle for me. Once I get up in years I'm going with a .22 centerfire to finish out. 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The few tangible advantages that the 6.5 Creedmoor has over the 260 Remington are only valuable if they are useful to the shooter in question.
For example, if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they are negatives if you don't take advantage of them. Upside for those that do use them, no downside for those that don't. I agree and didn't mean to infer that unused advantages were negatives, just that an unused advantage is neither good, nor bad, if you don't use it. I've shot the 260 for almost 20 years and the 6.5 Creedmoor for just over 3.5 years, enough time and enough rounds sent down range from enough different rifles to know both cartridges fairly well.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
A big'un.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'd just as soon have a 270 win or a 25-06..
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ive seen in a few different articles ,how the 6.5 ,because of case and chamber design, along with the high bc and good sd bullets available, will shoot flatter and have more energy at long range than a 300 win mag.
if so, that is pretty damned impressive.
Also,the 308 target round will drop subsonic at around 900 yards, where the 143 gr bullet in 264 dia will not do that until 1400 yards, even though started at somewhat less velocity.
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Campfire Ranger
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It checks a lot of boxes for sure.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. Maybe it's the ultimate for him. It's not for me.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ive seen in a few different articles ,how the 6.5 ,because of case and chamber design, along with the high bc and good sd bullets available, will shoot flatter and have more energy at long range than a 300 win mag.
if so, that is pretty damned impressive.
Also,the 308 target round will drop subsonic at around 900 yards, where the 143 gr bullet in 264 dia will not do that until 1400 yards, even though started at somewhat less velocity.
I'm sure a 6.5 might outrun a 300 win mag at extremely long range. For hunting guns what the heck does it matter?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. Well, they gotta write something to fill the pages....
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire Ranger
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This is the new version of the old .30/06 vs .270 article. Fluff stuff to stir the pot and fill the pages.
Egon Spengler was right; print is dead.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I wonder if John Snow will be using the Creedmoor against the White Walkers.
WWP53D
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Campfire Ranger
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Does Hornady make Dragon glass ELDs?
BTW, I made a funny like that a while back, and Mule Deer went all spelling Nazi on me about Jon vs John Snow. Some guys....
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Outdoor Life magazine should be changed to Metro Life for all the useless information they provide. I don't read it unless it is a choice between it and people magazine at my dentist office.
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Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
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Everyone needs a couple Creedmoor's
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Looks like my friend John (not Jon) Snow's article really did it's job well. Now a lot more copies of OL will be sold so people can argue about the article.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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Interesting. I haven't seen the article. So, what would be the factors in determining the 'ultimate rifle round'? - Quality and availability of components
- Accuracy
- Recoil
- Short range target
- Long range target (1000yd) target
- Small game hunting
- Hog hunting
- Coyote hunting
- Black bear hunting
- Pronghorn hunting
- Whitetail hunting
- Mule Deer hunting (standard ranges, say <450yds)
- Mule Deer hunting (450-1000 yds)
- Elk hunting standard range
- Elk hunting long range
- Moose hunting
- Caribou hunting
- Grizzly hunting
Create a weighting of how important each is to you and then score each. Could endlessly debate what constitutes standard ranges and then long range. Decide for yourself. Although there is likely a range for which say 90% of game such as elk or Deer is shot and that would be the standard range. Likewise, there exists the actual percentages of each game hunted in North America, or other region, which could be applied. Create the list what it should do, determine how to score each metric (I.e. Excellent vs. just ok at long range). With some thought, this could actually be done quite well. MD, you should do a follow-up article with real numbers and analysis.
Last edited by prm; 09/15/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Looks like my friend John (not Jon) Snow's article really did it's job well. Now a lot more copies of OL will be sold so people can argue about the article.
Told you.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Does Hornady make Dragon glass ELDs?
BTW, I made a funny like that a while back, and Mule Deer went all spelling Nazi on me about Jon vs John Snow. Some guys.... LOL.
WWP53D
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The ultimate round if you also have a 7RM in the safe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Interesting. I haven't seen the article. So, what would be the factors in determining the 'ultimate rifle round'? - Quality and availability of components
- Accuracy
- Recoil
- Short range target
- Long range target (1000yd) target
- Small game hunting
- Hog hunting
- Coyote hunting
- Black bear hunting
- Pronghorn hunting
- Whitetail hunting
- Mule Deer hunting (standard ranges, say <450yds)
- Mule Deer hunting (450-1000 yds)
- Elk hunting standard range
- Elk hunting long range
- Moose hunting
- Caribou hunting
- Grizzly hunting
Create a weighting of how important each is to you and then score each. Could endlessly debate what constitutes standard ranges and then long range. Decide for yourself. Although there is likely a range for which say 90% of game such as elk or Deer is shot and that would be the standard range. Likewise, there exists the actual percentages of each game hunted in North America, or other region, which could be applied. Create the list what it should do, determine how to score each metric (I.e. Excellent vs. just ok at long range). With some thought, this could actually be done quite well. MD, you should do a follow-up article with real numbers and analysis. Hunting is 99 problems and the rifle ain't one. Gun rags and Internet forums will have you believe otherwise. Life is full of a lot of other things to do......
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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No, the big problem is hunters, because hunters really like to argue about rifles. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gun rags, Internet forums or conversations in hunting camps.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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"You know nothing, John Snow."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Now if they would just neck up that Creedmoor case to .277 they would really have something..... (grin)
Now with even more aplomb
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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No, the big problem is hunters, because hunters really like to argue about rifles. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gun rags, Internet forums or conversations in hunting camps. We sure do! And the closer the cartrdges are in performance the more we like to argue about them. I.e, 308 and 30-06.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The .308 and .30-06 are close?!
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Interesting. I haven't seen the article. So, what would be the factors in determining the 'ultimate rifle round'? - Quality and availability of components
- Accuracy
- Recoil
- Short range target
- Long range target (1000yd) target
- Small game hunting
- Hog hunting
- Coyote hunting
- Black bear hunting
- Pronghorn hunting
- Whitetail hunting
- Mule Deer hunting (standard ranges, say <450yds)
- Mule Deer hunting (450-1000 yds)
- Elk hunting standard range
- Elk hunting long range
- Moose hunting
- Caribou hunting
- Grizzly hunting
Create a weighting of how important each is to you and then score each. Could endlessly debate what constitutes standard ranges and then long range. Decide for yourself. Although there is likely a range for which say 90% of game such as elk or Deer is shot and that would be the standard range. Likewise, there exists the actual percentages of each game hunted in North America, or other region, which could be applied. Create the list what it should do, determine how to score each metric (I.e. Excellent vs. just ok at long range). With some thought, this could actually be done quite well. MD, you should do a follow-up article with real numbers and analysis. Hunting is 99 problems and the rifle ain't one. Gun rags and Internet forums will have you believe otherwise. Life is full of a lot of other things to do...... I'm not even bringing up the rifle! I'm only talking the cartridge! In reality it's all just an analytical exercise for fun. Beats discussing politics.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Put them all in a bucket and they average out arounf a .440 BC weighing 143 gr going 2,950 FPS with 48" drop at a 500 (100 yd zero) and 20" drift. You can nitpick here and there for flatter trajectory, more ass, less drift, and so on.
I beat that dead horse, revived it, and rode it's ass outta Looneyville.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Put them all in a bucket and they average out arounf a .440 BC weighing 143 gr going 2,950 FPS with 48" drop at a 500 (100 yd zero) and 20" drift. You can nitpick here and there for flatter trajectory, more ass, less drift, and so on.
I beat that dead horse, revived it, and rode it's ass outta Looneyville.
So 284 Win....good to know. I had long suspected that I've been wasting my time with other cartridges.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Or a 270, 280, 30-06....it's all grey and makes loud noises to me.
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The boring 308 will beat the 6.5 to any range distance that I will ever shoot.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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No, the big problem is hunters, because hunters really like to argue about rifles. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gun rags, Internet forums or conversations in hunting camps. No we don't.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. WhoTF is John B. Snow?
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I gotta admit... I'm the latest Creed sucker.. it's easy to spot those who have tried it and those who haven't.
I too spent the last decade talking trash about it... Crow has never tasted so good. It's an awesome little round but so are plenty others.
Todd
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I gotta admit... I'm the latest Creed sucker.. it's easy to spot those who have tried it and those who haven't.
I too spent the last decade talking trash about it... Crow has never tasted so good. It's an awesome little round but so are plenty others.
Todd I'd be more excited if it pushed 140's to 3k. As it is, it's so vanilla that it has no flavor, just frozen cream.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. WhoTF is John B. Snow? According to page 10 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine, John B. Snow is a Senior Deputy Editor.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm no expert on the CM cartridges yet, but I've been on an efficiency and purpose kick when it comes to rifle cartridges for a bit. All the other cartridge arguments aside, the CM does more, with less recoil and blast than the 708 or 308, and more energy/bullet than the (non-CM) 6s or 25s. It has more factory loads already than the 260 ever did. All of those little things together mean young, small, and (important) new shooters will spend way more favorable time with it and more will hunt with it. I see it as the new beginner centerfire, even though it's just as easily a super versatile rifleman's cartridge like most of the others mentioned. JMO
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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For 99.95% of the shooters out there, the Creedmoor offers nothing over their 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Remington, 6.5x55 or 7mm-08. Unless you are going to get into extreme long range shooting, its benefits will never be realized. With that said, if you aren't represented in that cartridge class, it'd be a dandy place to start.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm loading for deer season now. 54gr of imr4350 under 165 SGK's. The deer are lucky since that combination won't kill them.
Probably won't be able to hit one anyway since my little CLR is wearing a Leupold 3-9 with friction adjustments.
Like 16 said, 99 problems..... but venison in the freezer aint gonna be one of them. I have zero use for a creedmor. Obviously YMMV depending on your AO.
Last edited by jackmountain; 09/15/17.
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I'm no expert on the CM cartridges yet, but I've been on an efficiency and purpose kick when it comes to rifle cartridges for a bit. All the other cartridge arguments aside, the CM does more, with less recoil and blast than the 708 or 308, and more energy/bullet than the (non-CM) 6s or 25s. It has more factory loads already than the 260 ever did. All of those little things together mean young, small, and (important) new shooters will spend way more favorable time with it and more will hunt with it. I see it as the new beginner centerfire, even though it's just as easily a super versatile rifleman's cartridge like most of the others mentioned. JMO I'll agree the 6.5 CM is a great beginner centerfire. It's got plenty of oomph from the muzzle for any size game that a younger or less experienced hunter would be going for. However, as the game increases in size and since most hunting distances are 200 yards or less, that 308 is a certain step above. If elk, black bear, or moose is in the reticle, it's real hard to not prefer a much heavier bullet. The fact remains, at normal hunting distances, the 308 can do everything that the 6.5 CM can do with just as light bullets like the 110 or 130 TTSX and do things on the heavier end of the spectrum that the 6.5 CM can not. The 6.5 CM's only superior place is on the shooting range punching paper. Hey if I did lots of range work and just did some deer hunting every fall I'd be all about it and sing its praises but to call it the 'ultimate rifle round', well just says that range work and deer hunting is all that matters.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tom,
John Snow has been the shooting columnist for OL since Jim Carmichel retired in 2008. He was a pretty experienced shooter and hunter before then, but because of his job has gained a lot more since then.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. WhoTF is John B. Snow? I was wondering the same thing.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Tom,
John Snow has been the shooting columnist for OL since Jim Carmichel retired in 2008. He was a pretty experienced shooter and hunter before then, but because of his job has gained a lot more since then. Thanks JB..I don't get Outdoor Life....or any of the others anymore....I just look here for your writing. Nothing else matters!  (Don't tell Eileen that...)
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm loading for deer season now. 54gr of imr4350 under 165 SGK's. The deer are lucky since that combination won't kill them.
Probably won't be able to hit one anyway since my little CLR is wearing a Leupold 3-9 with friction adjustments.
Like 16 said, 99 problems..... but venison in the freezer aint gonna be one of them. I have zero use for a creedmor. Obviously YMMV depending on your AO.
Haha so true. Make me wonder how I get by year after year!!
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I think the 7x57 is the ultimate rifle round and has been for over 120 years. GD
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm loading for deer season now. 54gr of imr4350 under 165 SGK's. The deer are lucky since that combination won't kill them.
Probably won't be able to hit one anyway since my little CLR is wearing a Leupold 3-9 with friction adjustments.
Like 16 said, 99 problems..... but venison in the freezer aint gonna be one of them. I have zero use for a creedmor. Obviously YMMV depending on your AO.
I bought a whole box of Federal 100's for a RAR 243 I've got $150 in. Hope to zero it before deer season and shoot some groceries. I don't think I've fired a rifle during 2017. Probably out of practice. Damn the luck.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Well I'm all phuqued up then. I'm gonna haul the old lady's gpa's 88 3 not so great to Idaho to kill a couple whitetail bucks around thanksgiving. Dunno what the ammo is but it came with the rifle, ammo looks old.... grin I put the horsehair sling, talley LW's and bought the 3-9 Luepy for $100... ![[Linked Image]](https://s26.postimg.org/4j69g5c95/IMG_2766.jpg)
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Old guns and old ammo won't kill new deer.
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Campfire Tracker
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Old guns and old ammo won't kill new deer. It's sad that this has to be said over and over... why doesn't everyone get it by now?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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John Snow is doing his job with articles like this. A gunwriter has to be somewhat provocative. Especially with his title. If he would have titled it "The 6.5 Creedmoor, another cartridge that's as good as a whole litany of other cartridges", we wouldn't be talking about it right now. I recently saw something from Terry Weiland about the .30-06's day having come and gone and about there being much better options and I just felt he was doing what gunwriters do to get your attention. I'd do it too if I was one.
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Campfire Ranger
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If it bleeds it leads....
Same as the Glock vs 1911 articles from the 80's. Holy crap....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Tom,
John Snow has been the shooting columnist for OL since Jim Carmichel retired in 2008. He was a pretty experienced shooter and hunter before then, but because of his job has gained a lot more since then. Thanks JB..I don't get Outdoor Life....or any of the others anymore....I just look here for your writing. Nothing else matters! (Don't tell Eileen that...) I agree. BLM right? Only Barsness Lies, I mean Lines Matter
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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John Snow is doing his job with articles like this. A gunwriter has to be somewhat provocative. Especially with his title. If he would have titled it "The 6.5 Creedmoor, another cartridge that's as good as a whole litany of other cartridges", we wouldn't be talking about it right now. I recently saw something from Terry Weiland about the .30-06's day having come and gone and about there being much better options and I just felt he was doing what gunwriters do to get your attention. I'd do it too if I was one. That's funny because I'm pretty sure I've got one of his pieces here where he says he prefers the '06 over the 7mm RM, not that the two positions can't be reconciled. Not sure I agree that the writers have to be provocative, just when that's what the rag wants. As an aside, I recently fell for one of those $8 offers from Guns and Ammo. Already wish I had my money back.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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moosemike,
Actually, we don't really know what John Snow titled the article. My experience in writing for a number of magazines is that more often than not, the editor's going to change the author's title. Some don't, but most do, often to create a theme among the mix of articles in that issue, or because the author's title was pretty boring, or because they want to catch readers, especially those who tend to browse through magazine racks. Which is exactly why magazine covers often have eye-catching photos and condensations of article titles on their covers.
I'm sure glad we have the Campfire to get away from provocative writing....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I think the 7x57 is the ultimate rifle round and has been for over 120 years. GD I am glad that someone stepped up to say it. There ain't nothing on God's Green Earth that hasn't fallen to that round, except maybe t-rex and pterodactyl, and I'm not even sure about that. We'd have to ask Ingwe.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm waiting for the article titled' "The 6.5 Swed; the Thinking Man's Creedmoor."
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm loading for deer season now. 54gr of imr4350 under 165 SGK's. The deer are lucky since that combination won't kill them.
Probably won't be able to hit one anyway since my little CLR is wearing a Leupold 3-9 with friction adjustments.
Like 16 said, 99 problems..... but venison in the freezer aint gonna be one of them. I have zero use for a creedmor. Obviously YMMV depending on your AO.
I bought a whole box of Federal 100's for a RAR 243 I've got $150 in. Hope to zero it before deer season and shoot some groceries. I don't think I've fired a rifle during 2017. Probably out of practice. Damn the luck. I'm over, over thinking it. Gonna spend my time scouting and hunting instead of worrying about BC that doesn't amount to [bleep] when hunting in Appalachia. I'm having a ball shooting 250 yds with suppressed subsonics in the 300 BO I just picked up. Never seen a drop chart with 6" between 50 and 100 yds before! As for groceries, mama told me this morning I need to put some ground meat in the freezer because the beef doesn't taste near as good.
Last edited by jackmountain; 09/16/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Old guns and old ammo won't kill new deer. Im gonna give er hell!! grin
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
My solution is to buy whatever moves me, new, old, or in between.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
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I'm loading for deer season now. 54gr of imr4350 under 165 SGK's. The deer are lucky since that combination won't kill them.
Probably won't be able to hit one anyway since my little CLR is wearing a Leupold 3-9 with friction adjustments.
Like 16 said, 99 problems..... but venison in the freezer aint gonna be one of them. I have zero use for a creedmor. Obviously YMMV depending on your AO.
I bought a whole box of Federal 100's for a RAR 243 I've got $150 in. Hope to zero it before deer season and shoot some groceries. I don't think I've fired a rifle during 2017. Probably out of practice. Damn the luck. I'm over, over thinking it. Gonna spend my time scouting and hunting instead of worrying about BC that doesn't amount to [bleep] when hunting in Appalachia. I'm having a ball shooting 250 yds with suppressed subsonics in the 300 BO I just picked up. Never seen a drop chart with 6" between 50 and 100 yds before! As for groceries, mama told me this morning I need to put some ground meat in the freezer because the beef doesn't taste near as good. If a guy actually "hunts", it don't mean schitt anywhere....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
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Posts: 32,143
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
moosemike,
Actually, we don't really know what John Snow titled the article. My experience in writing for a number of magazines is that more often than not, the editor's going to change the author's title. Some don't, but most do, often to create a theme among the mix of articles in that issue, or because the author's title was pretty boring, or because they want to catch readers, especially those who tend to browse through magazine racks. Which is exactly why magazine covers often have eye-catching photos and condensations of article titles on their covers.
I'm sure glad we have the Campfire to get away from provocative writing....
The cover teaser reads "6.5 CREEDMOOR: THE ULTIMATE RIFLE ROUND". The title of the article reads"6.5 CREEDMOOR - HOW THIS MILD METRIC WENT FROM NICHE COMPETITION ROUND TO SHOOTING AND HUNTING SUPERSTAR".
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Love me some Creed.... and the .260 even more.... but everyone knows the 7mm Rem Mag is the ultimate rifle-round.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm waiting for the article titled' "The 6.5 Swed; the Thinking Man's Creedmoor." A fella looking to buy a T3 in either Creed or Swede would likely drive himself nuts trying to decide.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Love me some Creed.... and the .260 even more.... but everyone knows the 7mm Rem Mag is the ultimate rifle-round. I wish...... Mine has been sitting in the classifieds for months.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I think the 7x57 is the ultimate rifle round and has been for over 120 years. GD I am glad that someone stepped up to say it. There ain't nothing on God's Green Earth that hasn't fallen to that round, except maybe t-rex and pterodactyl, and I'm not even sure about that. We'd have to ask Ingwe. Ingwe with his 7x57 spear is the reason those animals are extinct. 
Life Member SCI
Life Member DSC
Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell
Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. He can get back into a 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400 via the Howa 1500 or RAR-P. Sedgley Sporters don't come along every day and if the price is right, you've got to go for it.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Exactly why I quit reading magazines years ago....there is no such thing really....
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. He can get back into a 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400 via the Howa 1500 or RAR-P. Sedgley Sporters don't come along every day and if the price is right, you've got to go for it. The price is right. He just wants my sons Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 Creed for the near mint Sedgley sporter he inherited.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Love me some Creed.... and the .260 even more.... but everyone knows the 7mm Rem Mag is the ultimate rifle-round. B-29 puts the 7mm RM to shame, haven't you learned anything being on here?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. He can get back into a 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400 via the Howa 1500 or RAR-P. Sedgley Sporters don't come along every day and if the price is right, you've got to go for it. The price is right. He just wants my sons Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 Creed for the near mint Sedgley sporter he inherited. Then your son did the right thing, I'd always trade a $500 rifle for a $2,000 rifle unless the $500 rifle has some sort of added value, sentimental or otherwise. If your son needs a replacement, Johnnymac has a 6.5 Creedmoor V2 for sale in the classified ads forum for $450.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. He can get back into a 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400 via the Howa 1500 or RAR-P. Sedgley Sporters don't come along every day and if the price is right, you've got to go for it. The price is right. He just wants my sons Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 Creed for the near mint Sedgley sporter he inherited. Then your son did the right thing, I'd always trade a $500 rifle for a $2,000 rifle unless the $500 rifle has some sort of added value, sentimental or otherwise. If your son needs a replacement, Johnnymac has a 6.5 Creedmoor V2 for sale in the classified ads forum for $450. OK. Thanks!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I think the 7x57 is the ultimate rifle round and has been for over 120 years. GD I am glad that someone stepped up to say it. There ain't nothing on God's Green Earth that hasn't fallen to that round, except maybe t-rex and pterodactyl, and I'm not even sure about that. We'd have to ask Ingwe. Ingwe with his 7x57 spear is the reason those animals are extinct. Exactamundo.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No, the big problem is hunters, because hunters really like to argue about rifles. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gun rags, Internet forums or conversations in hunting camps. I'm switching to skinny broadheads for everything.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I beat that dead horse, revived it, and rode it's ass outta Looneyville. Sig material here^^^^^^^^^
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Which is exactly why magazine covers often have eye-catching photos and condensations of article titles on their covers.
I'm sure glad we have the Campfire to get away from provocative writing....
....and condensations.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Regular
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My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. He can get back into a 6.5 Creedmoor for under $400 via the Howa 1500 or RAR-P. Sedgley Sporters don't come along every day and if the price is right, you've got to go for it. The price is right. He just wants my sons Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 Creed for the near mint Sedgley sporter he inherited. Then your son did the right thing, I'd always trade a $500 rifle for a $2,000 rifle unless the $500 rifle has some sort of added value, sentimental or otherwise. If your son needs a replacement, Johnnymac has a 6.5 Creedmoor V2 for sale in the classified ads forum for $450. OK. Thanks! In PA too!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Just trying to help a fella out!
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Campfire Regular
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I burned the barrel on a old Remington 6 mm. For the re-barrel, I decided to go with a .260, due to the fact that I have virtually unlimited access to Hornady Match .308 brass. For my use (hunting to 500 or so) there is not a dime's worth of difference with the Creed. I just could not see the advantage of going with different brass. I load 147-grain ELD-M and 129 Interlocks in my .260 with no problem and it shoots them into 1/2 moa. I can see no advantage at all in the Creed. If I did not have the great brass access, I probably would have considered it, though.
And yes, I also have two 7 mags that have put a lot of meat in the freezer over the years. They are great rifles, but the older that I get, the more I like the small recoil on the .260. It has become my go-to rifle for what I hunt. I am currently trying to add a Nebraska cow elk to its list of freezer meat!
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm no expert on the CM cartridges yet, but I've been on an efficiency and purpose kick when it comes to rifle cartridges for a bit. All the other cartridge arguments aside, the CM does more, with less recoil and blast than the 708 or 308, and more energy/bullet than the (non-CM) 6s or 25s. It has more factory loads already than the 260 ever did. All of those little things together mean young, small, and (important) new shooters will spend way more favorable time with it and more will hunt with it. I see it as the new beginner centerfire, even though it's just as easily a super versatile rifleman's cartridge like most of the others mentioned. JMO I'll agree the 6.5 CM is a great beginner centerfire. It's got plenty of oomph from the muzzle for any size game that a younger or less experienced hunter would be going for. However, as the game increases in size and since most hunting distances are 200 yards or less, that 308 is a certain step above. If elk, black bear, or moose is in the reticle, it's real hard to not prefer a much heavier bullet. The fact remains, at normal hunting distances, the 308 can do everything that the 6.5 CM can do with just as light bullets like the 110 or 130 TTSX and do things on the heavier end of the spectrum that the 6.5 CM can not. The 6.5 CM's only superior place is on the shooting range punching paper. Hey if I did lots of range work and just did some deer hunting every fall I'd be all about it and sing its praises but to call it the 'ultimate rifle round', well just says that range work and deer hunting is all that matters. I can see the position. Just don't see much a 6.5 wouldn't do, that my 308s would get used for. When I get to that point, I have 358s and 30-06s, and any 308 is just a tweener, too. Saying the CM is good doesn't mean others are bad. Pointing out it's better efficiency and potential is just a factor of us learning better where the sweet spot is for bore, case, bullets, and powders. Doesn't make stuff more dead, just streamlines the tools some.
Last edited by hh4whiskey; 09/17/17.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 32,143 |
I burned the barrel on a old Remington 6 mm. For the re-barrel, I decided to go with a .260, due to the fact that I have virtually unlimited access to Hornady Match .308 brass. For my use (hunting to 500 or so) there is not a dime's worth of difference with the Creed. I just could not see the advantage of going with different brass. I load 147-grain ELD-M and 129 Interlocks in my .260 with no problem and it shoots them into 1/2 moa. I can see no advantage at all in the Creed. If I did not have the great brass access, I probably would have considered it, though.
And yes, I also have two 7 mags that have put a lot of meat in the freezer over the years. They are great rifles, but the older that I get, the more I like the small recoil on the .260. It has become my go-to rifle for what I hunt. I am currently trying to add a Nebraska cow elk to its list of freezer meat! Some people encounter COAL issues with bullets longer/heavier than the 130 grain AB, like the 147 grain ELD-M, when they load the 260 for use through short action Remington 2.8" magazines. The shorter 6.5 Creedmoor case eliminates any chance of COAL being a problem with bullets that are currently available.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'll agree it is the Ultimate Latest Hyped Rifle Round.....
to hear some folks talk how did we ever live without it?
oh wait, wasn't there something similar years ago...
like something called a 250 Savage?
and on second thought, isn't it trying to reinvent the wheel comparing it to the 260?
I don't read those mags anymore and haven't for years...
if I need any gunwriter input in life, few can get a more down to earth perspective
than our own John Barsness.... I agree. It's somebody's ultimate round, except mine and thousands of other shooters. But it's still the ultimate until the next ultimate round comes along. WSSMs, WSMs, CMs, RUMs, Lazzaronis. I've read similar written about them when they arrived on the scene as well. You decide what your ultimate is. It's a story title designed to generate sales. Agree with it or not, people buy magazines based on nifty titles and coolish pictures. Some people follow certain writers. It's the magazine business. It's all about sales. The ones who disagree will buy it so they can pick the article apart. The ones who agree just like reading something about which they like. The fence sitters will be no better off after reading it.
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
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Isn't that bit of a stretch?
See pages 58 thru 62 of the June/July issue of Outdoor Life magazine. ...........................Yeah! A bit of a stretch too imo. However, I suppose if one prefers a flat shooting lower recoiling cartridge with very good downrange ballistics who will hunt game no larger than elk, then the 6.5 CM is a good choice for that individual. Ultimate rifle round though? Assuming that Mr. Snow is a 6.5 CM owner, I'll bet that Mr. Snow has more than just a 6.5 CM sitting in his gun safe and that his other rifles are not safe queens and/or dust collectors. No such thing as "the ONE ultimate hunting round." For all us non 6.5 CM owners, let's all sell the rifles we now have and just own one rifle and one cartridge only,,,,,,namely the 6.5 CM.......
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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I'll agree it is the Ultimate Latest Hyped Rifle Round.....
to hear some folks talk how did we ever live without it?
oh wait, wasn't there something similar years ago...
like something called a 250 Savage?
and on second thought, isn't it trying to reinvent the wheel comparing it to the 260?
I don't read those mags anymore and haven't for years...
if I need any gunwriter input in life, few can get a more down to earth perspective
than our own John Barsness.... I agree. It's somebody's ultimate round, except mine and thousands of other shooters. But it's still the ultimate until the next ultimate round comes along. WSSMs, WSMs, CMs, RUMs, Lazzaronis. I've read similar written about them when they arrived on the scene as well. You decide what your ultimate is. It's a story title designed to generate sales. Agree with it or not, people buy magazines based on nifty titles and coolish pictures. Some people follow certain writers. It's the magazine business. It's all about sales. The ones who disagree will buy it so they can pick the article apart. The ones who agree just like reading something about which they like. The fence sitters will be no better off after reading it. This type of article is always going to be focused on the right now. Is it going to make you sell your prized 30-06 or .270 for pennies on the dollar? I should hope not, but if you get that desire shoot me a PM before posting in the classifieds. Of everything you listed from the WSSM's to the Lazzaronis this is the only new cartridge that I recall gaining this much traction in my lifetime. I think what impresses me most is the availability of quality ammunition at a reasonable price point. Ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 and the .260? Absolutely. The only difference is today I can buy hunting ammo for less than $1 per round for the 6.5 Creedmoor whereas the other two I cannot. I distinctly remember reading a similar Outdoor Life article in the waiting room of my dentist's office 15-20 years ago. Mr. Carmichael was discussing the magnificence of the then new .260 Rem. I wanted one in the worst way but didn't have the cash for another rifle. I chose to buy college textbooks instead. When I got to the point that I could buy a 260 I chose to purchase the 6.5 CM instead because I preferred the rifle it was chambered in. The point of any of these articles isn't to make you get rid of all of your other rifles because they're obsolete. Its not like every new rifle that is reviewed is in some exotic caliber. Do you think Ruger cares if your 7th RAR rifle you are adding to your collection is in .308 or 6.5 CM? If you need/want/obsess over another rifle articles such as these give you a reason to purchase one. If you're new to rifle ownership they give you an idea of what people are shooting in the current market.
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My question is: "What's next?" Just when you think there's enough chamberings to choke a horse, there's another mousetrap in the works. 6 creed, 7 Creed, 223 Creed, 9.3xCreed...
Good grief.
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"You know nothing, John Snow"
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I recently bought a 6.5 Creedmoor, mainly because I got a very good deal on the rifle, not especially because I was excited over the chambering. I've been pleasantly surprised by how accurate it is, and love shooting it. So far, all I've "killed" with it has been paper and steel, but I will deer hunt with it this fall. Now, having said that, I don't get a tingle down my leg every time I read or hear something about the 6.5 CM. As good a cartridge as it may be, for what I do, there are others just as good, and some even better. I don't compete in long range shooting matches, I'm just a hunter, and the biggest game I hunt is whitetail deer. My rifles in 243 will take care of my deer hunting needs just as good as the Creedmoor could. My 270 will do the job even better. My heavy barrel 308 shoots as good at long range as the Creedmoor does. Still, I believe it's a good round, and one that I'll play around with until something better comes along.......as it surely will.
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I My heavy barrel 308 shoots as good at long range as the Creedmoor does. well ,no that's the point, it doesn't. supposed to shoot flatter and retain more energy than the 308 at long range. a lot of it is the bullets.that 6.5mm 143 gr BC is .625, the same make and model 30 cal 168gr is .523.
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I My heavy barrel 308 shoots as good at long range as the Creedmoor does. well ,no that's the point, it doesn't. supposed to shoot flatter, drift less in the wind, and retain more energy than the 308 at long range. a lot of it is the bullets.that 6.5mm 143 gr BC is .625, the same make and model 30 cal 168gr is .523. You left out a big one for long distance work.
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I will agree that amongst offerings of "Every Man, Middle of the Road" do-all cartridges, that the 6.5 CM has a little more going for it than about any other standard factory set-up.
I chose the .260 because I got a chance at a really cool rifle that just happened to come from the factory (special run) with the advantages of the Creedmoor. And the CM wasn't offered in that rifle at the time. I remember thinking that the special run would have been unnecessary if the maker had simply bought a 6.5 CM reamer.
If a guy wants a very capable rifle for hunting that he can play around shooting long range with, and do well, then the creedmore is an obvious choice.
There are other choices, but the CM has more going for it in terms of OAL/chamber/mag length, Component availability, and even factory cartridge availability.
And I'm familiar with the name "John B. Snow". But I stopped reading the rags years ago, and I couldn't tell you much about the guy. I do think that in the large sense, he's right about the Creedmoor
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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And I'm with others who observe that the creedmore has achieved wider acceptance faster than about any other cartridge introduced in my lifetime.
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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My son is agonizing over his Creedmoor right now. One of his Army buddies wants to trade him a Sedgely 1903 .220 sporter for it. It's a good trade but my son isn't wild about a 1-14" Swift. There might be a pill for that...
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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I My heavy barrel 308 shoots as good at long range as the Creedmoor does. well ,no that's the point, it doesn't. supposed to shoot flatter, drift less in the wind, and retain more energy than the 308 at long range. a lot of it is the bullets.that 6.5mm 143 gr BC is .625, the same make and model 30 cal 168gr is .523. You left out a big one for long distance work. you are quite right,sir. I may never be able to utilize any of the creedmoors long range advantages, but, they will be there if I need them,and I cant see any short range disadvantages.
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[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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I My heavy barrel 308 shoots as good at long range as the Creedmoor does. well ,no that's the point, it doesn't. supposed to shoot flatter and retain more energy than the 308 at long range. a lot of it is the bullets.that 6.5mm 143 gr BC is .625, the same make and model 30 cal 168gr is .523. The 308 is just as good at the ranges that I, and that's spelled with a capital I, shoot. If you read my post, I'm not into long range shooting. I have a 500 yard range that I can shoot some steel on, and that's just for fun. For me and my purposes, the 308, or for that matter, a host of other cartridges will do just as good, if not better, than the Creedmoor. If I were into competition shooting, then my wants and needs would be different. Obviously, it's a good cartridge, it wouldn't be as popular as it is, and I wouldn't own one and post how accurate I've found it to be. But, for the needs of 90% of the people who hunt, there are a bunch of other cartridges that will work just as good. Not trying to start a war of words over such a trivial matter, but my needs and yours, as far as rifle cartridges go, are probably different.
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Probably not. All my hunting is inside 100 yards.
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This type of article is always going to be focused on the right now. Is it going to make you sell your prized 30-06 or .270 for pennies on the dollar? I should hope not, but if you get that desire shoot me a PM before posting in the classifieds. Of everything you listed from the WSSM's to the Lazzaronis this is the only new cartridge that I recall gaining this much traction in my lifetime. I think what impresses me most is the availability of quality ammunition at a reasonable price point. Ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 and the .260? Absolutely. The only difference is today I can buy hunting ammo for less than $1 per round for the 6.5 Creedmoor whereas the other two I cannot.
I distinctly remember reading a similar Outdoor Life article in the waiting room of my dentist's office 15-20 years ago. Mr. Carmichael was discussing the magnificence of the then new .260 Rem. I wanted one in the worst way but didn't have the cash for another rifle. I chose to buy college textbooks instead. When I got to the point that I could buy a 260 I chose to purchase the 6.5 CM instead because I preferred the rifle it was chambered in. The point of any of these articles isn't to make you get rid of all of your other rifles because they're obsolete. Its not like every new rifle that is reviewed is in some exotic caliber. Do you think Ruger cares if your 7th RAR rifle you are adding to your collection is in .308 or 6.5 CM? If you need/want/obsess over another rifle articles such as these give you a reason to purchase one. If you're new to rifle ownership they give you an idea of what people are shooting in the current market.
The Winchester short and super short magnums were supposed to knock the socks off the (then) present crop of cartridges. So much so, that Winchester cut back on the regular table fare and put a bunch of WSM and WSSM bolt rifles into production. Winchester thinned the herd in favour of these great cartridges. How'd they make out?  And, of course, what was all that nonsense between Winchester and Rick Jamison?  You'll find that what was old is new again. That profit spurs invention, and, to that end, the almighty dollar rules. Whatever happened to the 223 and 243 WSSMs?
Safe Shooting! Steve Redgwell www.303british.comGet your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain Member - Professional Outdoor Media Association of Canada
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This type of article is always going to be focused on the right now. Is it going to make you sell your prized 30-06 or .270 for pennies on the dollar? I should hope not, but if you get that desire shoot me a PM before posting in the classifieds. Of everything you listed from the WSSM's to the Lazzaronis this is the only new cartridge that I recall gaining this much traction in my lifetime. I think what impresses me most is the availability of quality ammunition at a reasonable price point. Ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 and the .260? Absolutely. The only difference is today I can buy hunting ammo for less than $1 per round for the 6.5 Creedmoor whereas the other two I cannot.
I distinctly remember reading a similar Outdoor Life article in the waiting room of my dentist's office 15-20 years ago. Mr. Carmichael was discussing the magnificence of the then new .260 Rem. I wanted one in the worst way but didn't have the cash for another rifle. I chose to buy college textbooks instead. When I got to the point that I could buy a 260 I chose to purchase the 6.5 CM instead because I preferred the rifle it was chambered in. The point of any of these articles isn't to make you get rid of all of your other rifles because they're obsolete. Its not like every new rifle that is reviewed is in some exotic caliber. Do you think Ruger cares if your 7th RAR rifle you are adding to your collection is in .308 or 6.5 CM? If you need/want/obsess over another rifle articles such as these give you a reason to purchase one. If you're new to rifle ownership they give you an idea of what people are shooting in the current market.
The Winchester short and super short magnums were supposed to knock the socks off the (then) present crop of cartridges. So much so, that Winchester cut back on the regular table fare and put a bunch of WSM and WSSM bolt rifles into production. Winchester thinned the herd in favour of these great cartridges. How'd they make out? And, of course, what was all that nonsense between Winchester and Rick Jamison? You'll find that what was old is new again. That profit spurs invention, and, to that end, the almighty dollar rules. Whatever happened to the 223 and 243 WSSMs? The WSMs and WSSMs ran into a wall when Winchester/USRA crashed in 2006 and then again when Winchester/Olin stopped makes WSSM ammo and components as regular production items. I have a few Winchester/USRA 70s chambered for the WSSMs and think very highly of the 25 WSSM as a dual purpose varmint and medium game cartridge. Heck, I'd buy another 25 WSSM if I could ever find a Browning Ti Mountain Rifle at a reasonable price.
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6.5 Creedmore.. just a poor copy of the 6.5x47 Lapua.
Hornady has spent ungodly amounts of advertisement money on that cartridge.
Last edited by Northman; 09/19/17.
The US in the last 40 years:
Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex
&
Rugged individualism for the individual.
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Hornady has spent ungodly amounts of advertisement money on that cartridge.
And they're laughing all the way to the bank. 
WWP53D
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6.5 Creedmore.. just a poor copy of the 6.5x47 Lapua.
Hornady has spent ungodly amounts of advertisement money on that cartridge. That pretty much sums up my experience. Small primer, less powder, similar velocities, shorter COL, better barrel life, handles high pressure better, etc.
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I noticed some Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass in Cabela's last weekend. They must be laughing all the way to the bank too.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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I noticed some Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass in Cabela's last weekend. They must be laughing all the way to the bank too. It is quite good brass - small rifle primer pocket with an undersized flash hole. I changed over to that with all my 6.5 CR's.
Last edited by whitebread; 09/19/17.
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I noticed some Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass in Cabela's last weekend. They must be laughing all the way to the bank too. It is quite good brass - small rifle primer pocket with an undersized flash hole. I changed over to that with all my 6.5 CR's. The new small primer brass will be awesome.... until it's cold outside....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Tom,
John Snow has been the shooting columnist for OL since Jim Carmichel retired in 2008. He was a pretty experienced shooter and hunter before then, but because of his job has gained a lot more since then. Hard to follow in Jim's footsteps....but he hasn't done too badly. Jim is the reason I got myself a .280 Mountain Rifle in the 80's. That being said, everyone already knows that the .308 Win is the greatest rifle cartridge in the universe.
"May the LORD bless you and keep you, may His face shine upon you, may He be gracious and give you peace"
from Numbers 6:24-26
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Yesterday the 308 was the Best. Today the 6.5 Creedmoor is Number one. It has nothing to do with the fact. I bought a Kimber today in 6.5.
“When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
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If one is taking into consideration recoil, ballistics, efficiency, paper punching, hunting deer sized critters, availability of accurate factory ammo, case design, and probably a few things I missed as an overall balance.......It is possible the 6.5 Creedmoor might be the ultimate rifle round in its category.
I however don't own one because I don't need the ultimate rifle round and I have a 6.5 swede ☺
Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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If you have to take all that schit into account for a hunting rifle, you're way overthinking it.
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So who in the hell is John B Snow? anyone ever answer that?
don't feel like reading 12 pages to find out...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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So who in the hell is John B Snow? anyone ever answer that?
don't feel like reading 12 pages to find out... Outdoor Life's gunwriter who replaced Jim Carmichael. He's been there for some years now.
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If one is taking into consideration recoil, ballistics, efficiency, paper punching, hunting deer sized critters, availability of accurate factory ammo, case design, and probably a few things I missed as an overall balance.......It is possible the 6.5 Creedmoor might be the ultimate rifle round in its category.
I however don't own one because I don't need the ultimate rifle round and I have a 6.5 swede ☺
Trystan You should quit posting.... until tomorrow...
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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6.5 Creedmore.. just a poor copy of the 6.5x47 Lapua.
Hornady has spent ungodly amounts of advertisement money on that cartridge. That pretty much sums up my experience. Small primer, less powder, similar velocities, shorter COL, better barrel life, handles high pressure better, etc. Yup. The Lapua is a better design, but didn't get into America's consciousness quickly enough to head off the Hornday full-court press.
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I noticed some Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor brass in Cabela's last weekend. They must be laughing all the way to the bank too. It is quite good brass - small rifle primer pocket with an undersized flash hole. I changed over to that with all my 6.5 CR's. The new small primer brass will be awesome.... until it's cold outside.... That's been mentioned here numerous times and seems to fall on deaf ears. For hunter's sake, I hope it's not an animal-of-a-lifetime they get an education on small primers in the cold. Plenty will come forth and cite how they've managed for years.....until the one time they don't manage. *grins*
WWP53D
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If you have to take all that schit into account for a hunting rifle, you're way overthinking it. The campfire is no place for logic ☺ Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So who in the hell is John B Snow? anyone ever answer that?
don't feel like reading 12 pages to find out... Outdoor Life's gunwriter who replaced Jim Carmichael. He's been there for some years now. Well, I haven't read those rags for decades... only gun writers I read are on the campfire... John B, Wayne vZ when he posted, Steve Timm, & Greg Boddington... when ever they were here or posted... besides that no need... gotta a bunch of gun rags from the 80s, Anybody want 'em?
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Balistics we have had for well over 100 years. The thing that makes the 6.5CM so good is that those 100 year old ballistics are very very good. And (some of) the rifles it's being made in are using a NATO length detachable magazine for those that like such things. I think the 6.5 CM is excellent, but not for the reasons we are being told. It's the latest and "best ever"---------------------- just like the shooting position..................... ![[Linked Image]](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/37260767722_6c7d42bcee_b.jpg) 4bd3053b038cae6ea3e30edb7588c41c by Steve Zihn, on Flickr Which no one uses anymore because they found it was really not better. Only the REAL EXPERTS used it, and then ..........they didn't. Those 100 year old ballistics were and still are very very good, so I do like the CM, ---------- but sometimes we have to admit that the emperor really is naked. A long slim .264 Bullet of about 140 grains moving at about 2700 FPS fired with a 1 in 8" twist is not new at all. But it's still very good.
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Balistics we have had for well over 100 years. The thing that makes the 6.5CM so good is that those 100 year old ballistics are very very good. And (some of) the rifles it's being made in are using a NATO length detachable magazine for those that like such things. I think the 6.5 CM is excellent, but not for the reasons we are being told. It's the latest and "best ever"---------------------- just like the shooting position..................... 4bd3053b038cae6ea3e30edb7588c41c by Steve Zihn, on Flickr Which no one uses anymore because they found it was really not better. Only the REAL EXPERTS used it, and then ..........they didn't. Those 100 year old ballistics were and still are very very good, so I do like the CM, ---------- but sometimes we have to admit that the emperor really is naked. A long slim .264 Bullet of about 140 grains moving at about 2700 FPS fired with a 1 in 8" twist is not new at all. But it's still very good. Great post!!
Biden's most truthful quote ever came during his first press conference, 03/25/21.
Drum roll please...... "I don't know, to be clear." and THAT is one promise he's kept!!!
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The 6.5x55 will pretty much do anything the creedmoor will
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I prefer the .338WM...better defense against bears and easier to set atop the case when reloading
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The 6.5x55 will pretty much do anything the creedmoor will Except get the ooooo's and aaaaaah's of Creednation.
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Campfire Tracker
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The 6.5x55 will pretty much do anything the creedmoor will Except get the ooooo's and aaaaaah's of Creednation. Or fit in a true short length action.
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I do enjoy how the press has jumped on the creedmore with such glee. Basically the Creedmore has brought back a more rational look at performance. Most people hunt deer. Some hunt elk and even fewer hunt bigger game. Percentagewise a Creedmore has plenty for most and enough for the rest. The fact it basically copies the 6.5x55 (circa 1891) in a more compact cartridge and fits the All important short action rifle are a bonus. It's factory ammo support is relatively unsurpassed in a newer offering. After 126 years the performance that it mirrors is still useful and I am ok with that.......
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Had the Creed come along in1925, we'd be talking about knitting.
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Campfire Ranger
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The 6.5x55 will pretty much do anything the creedmoor will Except get the ooooo's and aaaaaah's of Creednation. Or fit in a true short length action. And that. Tikka Swede or Creed is same/same essentially.
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Campfire Tracker
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Never heard of him, but I can say with verification, that "one man's meat is another man's poison". (Older saying than me)
Amazing how the most infrequent words may be "I like".
Well. "I like" the 7x57 and nothing either side of it will leverage that away from my gun rack.
Eleanor knew more than any of us, 7x57 and .30/06 then go hunting. The rest is for fun.
John
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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John,
I finally read the article, and nowhere does John Snow say the 6.5 Creedmoor is the ultimate rifle round.
Instead, the cover blurb for the article uses the phrase, which I can guarantee you was not written by John Snow. Instead it was written by some editor, for hyping newstand sales--which obviously worked.
The article's title is, "6.5 CREEDMOOR - HOW THIS MILD METRIC WENT FROM NICHE COMPETITION ROUND TO SHOOTING AND HUNTING SUPERSTAR". I can also guarantee John did not write this title either, though it's far closer to what the article's about that anything involving "ultimate rifle cartridge."
The article does not claim anything like that. Instead it covers the history of the 6.5 Creedmoor, including why it was designed when very similar cartridges already existed, and also describes some of John Snow's experiences with it, which are considerable, since he's been shooting it a lot, both at targets and big game, since it appeared a decade ago.
But again, nowhere in the article does John Snow call it the ultimate rifle cartridge, or anything resembling that. Instead that only appeared on the cover of the magazine--and as the header of this thread.
That said, the "ultimate header" obviously worked, both for the magazine and 24hourcampfire. It sold a lot of copies of OUTDOOR LIFE, and continues to suck Campfire members into this thread, which has gone on longer than most, and probably will continue for a while yet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Holy schit, more FAKE NEWS!!
Clear off a shelf John, you've got a Peabody Award coming.
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Campfire Outfitter
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For the average hunter/shooter what does the Creed do that the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, 260 remington and 6.5 Rem mag cant do? Nothing IMO.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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For the average hunter/shooter what does the Creed do that the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, 260 remington and 6.5 Rem mag cant do? Nothing IMO. The list is waaaaay longer than that.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Holy schit, more FAKE NEWS!!
Clear off a shelf John, you've got a Peabody Award coming. The damn Russians are behind this!!! 
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Campfire Tracker
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For the average hunter/shooter what does the Creed do that the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, 260 remington and 6.5 Rem mag cant do? Nothing IMO. World class ammo, $25 a box.... It's hard for me to fathom, why it's so hard for some to grasp. Factory ammo that is better than the vast majority of handloads for less than $25 a box available almost everywhere- even Walmart- and factory rifles setup to show that performance. If I want good performance out of the 6.5x55- reload. If I want almost any 6.5x284- reload. If I want the best performance from a 260- reload. 6.5 Rem mag- reload. Have a 6.5 Creedmoor and want ammo capable of winning national championships- go buy it at Walmart for $28. Just want to shoot deer, yet punch tiny groups? Buy $18 a box ammo at Walmart. The greatest attributes that the 308 had- tend to be accurate, lower recoil, factory match ammo... The Creedmoor crushes it in every one, and on top of that adds less wind drift and higher retained velocity for those that care.
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The 123 rolled stuff from Laupa in Swede looks like it'd be a dandy. Buy a case and find another hobby.
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For the average hunter/shooter what does the Creed do that the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, 260 remington and 6.5 Rem mag cant do? Nothing IMO. World class ammo, $25 a box.... It's hard for me to fathom, why it's so hard for some to grasp. Factory ammo that is better than the vast majority of handloads for less than $25 a box available almost everywhere- even Walmart- and factory rifles setup to show that performance. If I want good performance out of the 6.5x55- reload. If I want almost any 6.5x284- reload. If I want the best performance from a 260- reload. 6.5 Rem mag- reload. Have a 6.5 Creedmoor and want ammo capable of winning national championships- go buy it at Walmart for $28. Just want to shoot deer, yet punch tiny groups? Buy $18 a box ammo at Walmart. The greatest attributes that the 308 had- tend to be accurate, lower recoil, factory match ammo... The Creedmoor crushes it in every one, and on top of that adds less wind drift and higher retained velocity for those that care. Can't tell if this is a serious post or not, but went back and read previous posts. Got it.
Last edited by mitchellmountain; 10/01/17.
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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wyoming260,
The press has jumped on the "creedmore" (the spelling is Creedmoor, after a famous shooting range established in New York state in 1873) because both rifles and ammunition have been selling well for a long time. It was introduced a decade ago for target shooting, but within a short period hunters started buying them as well, partly because of the great ammo and widely available ammo that Formidilosus mentions, but partly because the rifles available tend to shoot well right out of the box.
I knew about the Creedmoor from the beginning, after reading about in several places, but the buzz in this part of Montana really started 2-3 years later, when local stores started stocking rifles and ammo. The hunters that bought both were very pleased with the accuracy and field performance--and they were mostly hunters who'd never purchased either a 6.5x55 or .260, because of a lack of rifles and ammo.
I wasn't one of those, because I owned and hunted with both 6.5x55's and .260's for a long time, and knew what they could do. But in 2010 I broke down and bought a Ruger Hawkeye in 6.5 Creedmoor at a local store, along with a few boxes of Hornady factory ammo. The rifle and ammo not only shot at least as well as handloads in my custom rifles 6.5x55 and .260, but were faster as well. (And I was using all the bells and whistles to load for those custom rifles, including Lapua, top match bullets, etc.)
As any example, the first 100-yard group with the 140 A-Max Hornady factory load went into .6 inch at 100 yards. That was with FIVE shots, not the 3-shot groups most hunters use, in a rifle that, aside from taking half an hour to work over the trigger, was just as it came from the factory. The muzzle velocity was also 100 fps higher than Remington 140-grain factory loads for the .260, and 200 fps higher than American factory loads for the 6.5x55.
Aside from that, the Hornady brass was very good--in every way that I can measure as good as Lapua, whether consistency in weight and dimensions, or case life. In fact I still have brass from 2010, and am still shooting it in my present 6.5 Creedmoor, a Ruger American Predator that cost half as much as the Hawkeye, but is if anything more accurate.
No, there's no real reason for anybody who has a good 6.5x55 or .260 to get rid of their rifle and buy a 6.5 Creedmoor. I still have both of mine, and have hunted with them since 2010, and like them a lot.
But for somebody looking to buy their first rifle chambered for a "moderate" 6.5 cartridge, there's every reason to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor instead. Not only is there a wide variety of very affordable and good factory ammo, but more and more rifle manufacturers chamber it, including some in Europe. After a decade it is NOT the current fad, but it well on its way to becoming a standard world-wide cartridge. If you and others want to pout about that in public, be my guest. If you don't want to buy a 6.5 Creedmoor, fine, nobody's forcing you.
In a way, this all reminds me somewhat of the to-do over the 7mm Remington Magnum back in the 1960's. I was just old enough to start hunting big game, but can remember it well. There wasn't any Internet back then, so every owner of a .270, 7x57, .280, .30-06, .300 H&H or whatever similar round couldn't stand up in public and complain about how the Seven Em Em Mag didn't do anything their favorite could do.
But there was still quite a bit of that bitching back then, in sporting goods stores and hunting camps, along with letter letters and even articles published in hunting magazines. But none of that mattered, because the 7mm Remington Magnum soon became a world-wide standard, chambered by just about every factory that makes bolt-action rifles. That's because thousands, and then hundreds or thousands, of shooters and hunters bought them, along with plenty of factory ammo.
Which is exactly what's happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor today. No, it is not the latest fad, it's a well-established factory round--just as the 7mm Remington Magnum was in 1972, a decade after it appeared.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 32,143 |
I see that Lipsey's has had Ruger make a small, 250?, run of stainless 77 RSIs in 6.5 Creedmoor. Kind of tempting, the 21st Century answer to the 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauers in 6.5x54 that were carried afield by the likes of Roy Chapman Andrews and Ernest Hemingway.
I didn't mean to denigrate Mr. Snow when I started this thread, but I can't control what other folks write.
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I have to say that after seeing 6.5 Creedmoot at Walmart for 18.50 a box, I have to agree.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I have to say that after seeing 6.5 Creedmoot at Walmart for 18.50 a box, I have to agree. Yes, it surprised me too when I saw Winchester/Olin's Deer Season Extreme 125 grain load at Wal-Mart for $18.33, less than all the other CF hunting ammo that wasn't 30-30. As a counter point, I don't recall having seen a single box of any brand of 260, 6.5x55, or 6.5-284 factory ammo for sale at any price at Wal-Mart.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Screw JBS and the nag he rode in on!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
Pretty much why I have seen/felt no need to jump on the latest wagon and buy a Creedmoor or six...
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
Pretty much why I have seen/felt no need to jump on the latest wagon and buy a Creedmoor or six... I like to try new things, so despite having rifles in 260, 6.5x55, 256 Newton, and 6.5-284, I started playing with the 6.5 Creedmoor in 2014. As I'm sure that you know, idle hands are the Devil's workshop.
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if you reload your own ammo and use hunting bullets that fit within the limits of the magazine of the rifle in question, I see no/zero reason to select the 6.5 Creedmoor in lieu of the 260.
Pretty much why I have seen/felt no need to jump on the latest wagon and buy a Creedmoor or six... I like to try new things, so despite having rifles in 260, 6.5x55, 256 Newton, and 6.5-284, I started playing with the 6.5 Creedmoor in 2014. As I'm sure that you know, idle hands are the Devil's workshop. Agreed. Idle hands definitely create an opportunity to 'need' something... I guess I'm just not quite the rifle nut that I used to be.
Nut
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Campfire Outfitter
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For the average hunter/shooter what does the Creed do that the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, 260 remington and 6.5 Rem mag cant do? Nothing IMO. World class ammo, $25 a box.... It's hard for me to fathom, why it's so hard for some to grasp. Factory ammo that is better than the vast majority of handloads for less than $25 a box available almost everywhere- even Walmart- and factory rifles setup to show that performance. If I want good performance out of the 6.5x55- reload. If I want almost any 6.5x284- reload. If I want the best performance from a 260- reload. 6.5 Rem mag- reload. Have a 6.5 Creedmoor and want ammo capable of winning national championships- go buy it at Walmart for $28. Just want to shoot deer, yet punch tiny groups? Buy $18 a box ammo at Walmart. The greatest attributes that the 308 had- tend to be accurate, lower recoil, factory match ammo... The Creedmoor crushes it in every one, and on top of that adds less wind drift and higher retained velocity for those that care. That pretty much sums up my feelings about the 6.5CM as well. If I wasn't a reloader I'd be looking hard at one. If I was starting fresh it would be on the "must have" list. Even as a reloader with a .257 Roberts pushed to +P velocities and a 6.5-06AI, I'm tempted. If my Savage FXP3 .243 had not turned out to be such a great shooter, I'd probably already have one. Paid $295 out the door for it with every intention of rebarreling it with a cheap 6.5CM barrel. Typical "Don't shoot the donor" scenario.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Black Cows Matter!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What is this "factory ammo" of which you speak......
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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I think the popularity of the Creedmoor is mostly what fuels the disdain of unabashed Creedmoor haters like myself. If 90% of 6.5 converts were being baptized in the New and Everlasting Church of the Holy .260 (or 6.5 Swede) I would probably be looking for a couple nicely dressed young men that were going door to door passing out factory Creedmoor ammo. Heaven help me if I ever see a Ruger American chambered in 6.5-06!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,143 |
I think the popularity of the Creedmoor is mostly what fuels the disdain of unabashed Creedmoor haters like myself. If 90% of 6.5 converts were being baptized in the New and Everlasting Church of the Holy .260 (or 6.5 Swede) I would probably be looking for a couple nicely dressed young men that were going door to door passing out factory Creedmoor ammo. Heaven help me if I ever see a Ruger American chambered in 6.5-06! Hating an inanimate object doesn't make sense to me. If you don't like something, don't buy it, simple as that.
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I think the popularity of the Creedmoor is mostly what fuels the disdain of unabashed Creedmoor haters like myself. If 90% of 6.5 converts were being baptized in the New and Everlasting Church of the Holy .260 (or 6.5 Swede) I would probably be looking for a couple nicely dressed young men that were going door to door passing out factory Creedmoor ammo. Heaven help me if I ever see a Ruger American chambered in 6.5-06! Hating an inanimate object doesn't make sense to me. If you don't like something, don't buy it, simple as that. ^This. I especially never understood hating cartridges.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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You know I have been reading magazines on outdoors, rifles, shotguns, handguns, tactical this or that, Boys Life since about 1982 and in all that time I have never read an article that was negative about any rifle, shotgun or hand gun or anything new or trendy! Nothing worse then someone that worships at the altar of all things periodical spouting nonsense about "modern" and "technology" it is laughable. Nothing that has come down the road cartridge wise has any new technology in it. The cases, the bullets, and the primers are unchanged for well over 60 years. Sure powder has changed some but that is it. Anyone can take 100 year old technology and alloys and crank out a new design that is not new technology or modern anything! This is what we have today thanks to gun writers and maybe public schools and universities! 1) People who can not think for themselves and decide what is pertinent and what is a distraction. 2) Short Actions are lighter and stiffer and more accurate so I should build a trendy whammy short magnum or short fat round on a short action! 3) I need to run the heaviest for caliber VLD's in everything from my plinking rifle, my hunting rifle and my F-Class rig.4) I can not feed my short super whammy trendy cartridge from the magazine of a short action unless I seat the super heavy VLD bullet into the case and eat into powder capacity! 5) How do I get 3999fps out of my 6.5 PRC from my R700 SA with 180gr 6.5mm Berger. 6) To fit in the magazine so you do not have single shot rifle that bullet is so far away from the rifling especially if you used some custom spec.'ed reamer to allow you to shoot loaded ammo with an OAL that will never fit in that magazine. The above is almost all you hear on forums. That and people trying to figure out how to build a 338LM on an action that really was not meant to handle a cartridge that long because they did not do their home work. All of the above is so easy to see coming and not fall for. Bartlein and Hawk Hill Custom make up 69% of the barrels on the top 100 shooters in PRS ( https://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/).I know that is 2015 info but it was readily available. That said I can remember when Brux, Krieger,Hart, Lija, Shilien and Douglas where all at the top in one form of shooting or another. Over the next 40 years I am sure I will see many more cartridges come and go but very few stick around or have any staying power. Their is very good reasons why the 30-06Spr, 25-06R, 270W, 300WM, 300 Whby Mag, 7RM, 22LR, 30-30, 45-70, 308 Win, 338WM, .243W, 7-08R, 6.5-06, 7Mauser, 8Mauser,6.5 Swede, 260R, 6BR, 6PPC, 6 Dasher, 22PPC,22-250, 458 Lott, 404 Jeffery, 375 H&H, 9.3x62 are still with us and popular. When Hornady stops making 6.5 Creedmore brass you can always switch to 260R. Oh and seldom is your fastest load your most accurate load which is another thing people always seem to forget about. Unless you are shooting at close range group size down range is always more important than almost anything else. The 6 Creedmore and 6.5 Creedmore have little going for them in terms of hunting or target shooting. The 6PRC and 6.5PRC likewise other then being trendy better cartridges have come and gone then they will likely ever be. It is not that the cartridges can not be made to work so much as they can never live up to the hype being showered upon them combined with better options already existing. Hornady's brass is not inline with it's price in terms of number of reloads compared to things that cost a little more but give you 3x-5x the life expectancy. There are cartridges that will produce the same practical results with less powder and lower pressure. There are cartridges that give better barrel life. There are cartridges that give you more powder space and higher velocities. It can not do what 284 does in F-open, TR can not use it, PRS guys are favoring 6mm low recoiling rounds. Bench Rest is not interested. The newer cartridges in rural America can be hard to find and when you do find them you have limited selection of bullet weights and construction. We already have everything we will ever need to to hunt Elephants to Elk and P-Dogs and Pheasants in cartridges that have been with us since 1963 and prior. Hype is a double edge sword because when the real life results do not match it leave a sour taste. Worse than that though you get all kinds of of guys showing up on the internet praising it because if they admit they where suckered in by the hype and marketing they will look like fools. On top of that people that look to make a living selling you things are in the business of not being as honest as we would like because they have to keep you buying. In many ways Tubbs 6XC 117gr. and 115gr. DTAC makes far more sense then the 6CM and 6.5CM from a target shooting perspective but he never had any real backing or support and no deep pockets like Hornady, NORMA and Lapua. Likewise the popularity of the 338LM is silly for any American when you look at the 338RUM, 338Edge, and look at of an action to build a proper 338LM with out modification to an action never meant to handle a cartridge that long. Any penny's you save modifying an action is lost to machine time unless you do it your self.On top of that the cheaper options have not proven to be very accurate in many cases. In my lifetime I have not seen anything too amazing in rifle cartridges because it always comes down to barrel life vs powder burnt vs trajectory vs cost for special proprietary brass vs weight of action vs weight of barrel and what it can do for you in real life. Some people do not mind spending 5X as much in the long run to gain 100fps but that is foolish when you look at real world results. You never get 5X the accuracy or consistency. The margin of return starts to drop off fast. In the next 10-15 years we will see a lot of changes because all the Baby Boomers with the deep pockets and the time to actually perfect their skills with lots of range time or a range in their back yard will start dying off at an accelerated rate. I think we will see things go in a different direction. Not sure yet which direction things will go or if it will be good or bad. We do not have as many Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Machinist in the population as we once had and fewer youth are getting into hunting or shooting sports. It will be interesting for sure and I am thinking chaos!
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You are out of your [bleep] Tree! 
It's a great life if you don't weaken..
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In my opinion it's a BIG stretch. I think a .270 Winchester is all you need. Then there's the 7x57 or the .280 Remington. Or the .284 or the .30-06 or the what ever!!! How can you say things like that?
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It's basically like heated seats and carpet in a pickup...
Like most magnums that were sold over the last 60 years, most hunters don't need any new cartridge or .600 BC bullets to kill or shoot the deer family of animals 100, maybe 200 yards away (the deer feeder and tree stand crowd, maybe 50).
The Creedmoors fill a lot of wants and probably zero needs, but 30-30's are pretty boring.
Last edited by HawkI; 02/17/19.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
IMO...no such thing as "ultimate" rifle round. Too many variables in hunting and personal likes/dislikes in target/competitive shooting for there to be a single cartridge that is the ultimate. Ditto that. My daughters love my .257 Roberts and #1 told her hubby that when I'm gone there may be a fight between them to get their hands on it. They were looking at used rifles for donors that could be rebarreled to .257 Roberts. SIL texted me and asked what I thought about the idea and I told him to forget it - get a 6.5 CM instead. Much better selection of factory ammo and component bullets, better brass availability and does everything the Roberts can do and then some. But... IMHO the "ultimate rifle round" should be a "do most everything" round. The 6.5 CM isn't the one I would choose if that is the criteria. For my needs a 7mm RM or .30-06 would be my choice - and the 7mm RM was for 20+ years.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 02/17/19. Reason: typo corrected
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
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'Hunter,
Take a stab at bullets...mainly because it will be funnier than fhuqk.
Hint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Or chamber a medium or long action in .260 and have the best of both worlds.
What goes up must come down, what goes around comes around, there's no free lunch. Trump's comin' back, get over it!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345 |
Or chamber a medium or long action in .260 and have the best of both worlds. Bullet? Speed? Describe the particulars of your blueprint...you know,the Imaginary one you are Pretending about. Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Apr 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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It's all about...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345 |
It's all about...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! It's ALL about connecting dots...RPM,COAL and Throat Geometry. That same has always stumped Clueless Fhuqks,remains a hilarious constant! Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503 |
Or chamber a medium or long action in .260 and have the best of both worlds. Bullet? Speed? Describe the particulars of your blueprint...you know,the Imaginary one you are Pretending about. Hint............... Show us something you invented and built, not something you bought, destroyed and threw into a swamp and took a picture of once you wrecked it... Hint, rolling in the floor laughing...
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345 |
Or chamber a medium or long action in .260 and have the best of both worlds. Bullet? Speed? Describe the particulars of your blueprint...you know,the Imaginary one you are Pretending about. Hint............... Show us something you invented and built, not something you bought, destroyed and threw into a swamp and took a picture of once you wrecked it... Hint, rolling in the floor laughing... shrapnel, Ain't it a fhuqking hoot,that Stupidity isn't an "act" for you...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!? How many times a day,do you think about me? Not on a Special Day,just on the average? HINT. Bless your heart. Laughing!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503 |
shrapnel,
Ain't it a hoot,that Stupidity isn't an "act" for me...you "lucky" guy. Hint. Congratulations?!?
How many times a day,do you think about me? Not nearly as much as I think about you. Thanks again for being such a great example, not laughing at you, just laughing at my ridiculous infatuation with dead fish and rusty guns!!
HINT.
Bless your heart.
Laughing! at myself of course ................
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,345
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
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shrapnel,
Pardon my Inventing Lexicon,Prose,Phraseology and Punctuation...that you are powerless in the refrain to mimic,due your long standing Wanton Man Lust Crush.
Ain't it a fhuqking hoot,that Stupidity isn't an "act" for you...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
How many times a day,do you think about me? Not on a Special Day,just on the average?
HINT.
Bless your heart.
Laughing!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,503
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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shrapnel,
How many times a day,do you think about me? Not on a Special Day,just on the average?
HINT.
Bless your heart.
Laughing!................
Every time I flush the toilet, I wonder when you’re down there, if your mouth is still open...
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 975
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 8,871
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,871 |
Maybe John Snow went too the Academy of higher learning with Lee J Hoots. Where the 270 was found unacceptable yet the latest wonder gun is an automatic world beater?
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,047 |
NRA Benefactor 2008
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John 14-6
There is no right way to do a wrong thing
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
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I've already beat this horse, to death... It is a wonderful round, but.. It will do nothing that a 6.5X57 won't do other than fit in a short action. I was looking for a new longer range rifle as I gave my daughter the 6.5X57. Spent a ton of time reading and looking at ballistics etc Found a Sako 85 NIB in 270 Winchester for under $900. Had everything for reloading already it was not a hard choice. I don't think I will regret the choice.
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Joined: Jan 2019
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Its not the cartridge...its the people
GOD Bless America
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,603
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2013
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Reload? Yeah, but I don’t HAVE to for the cm. I can spend that time loading precision stuff for all those other calibers that don’t have it for $20-30/box on every local store shelf.....like 308s, 243s, 270s, 260s, 6.5xWhatever, 7-08.........or shooting, cheap, accurate cm stuff. My 308s kick more and require more loading attention, to be as accurate and kill no better than the cm.
$, convenience, performance, and recoil? Tall order to pass up the CM, no matter if you think it’s ‘trendy’ or practical.
Last edited by hh4whiskey; 02/23/19.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I think throwing out all our rifles and getting 6.5's should be part of the Green Dream. Kind of like rebuilding every structure in the USA to be energy efficient, think of the powder that would be saved.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Posts: 754
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Campfire Regular
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The 120 year old 6.5x55 at modern pressures pounds the 6.5 Creedmore into the ground like a tent peg. For a hunting rifle the 6.5 Creedmore is an inexplicable choice.
"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,600 |
the 6.5 is a cute, little stylish newcomer that although very efficient and excellent for those who love to "ring steel" at long ranges and great for deer, etc, I'd hardly call it an "elk cartridge", much less "ideal".
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The 120 year old 6.5x55 at modern pressures pounds the 6.5 Creedmore into the ground like a tent peg. For a hunting rifle the 6.5 Creedmore is an inexplicable choice. LOL. the 6.5 is a cute, little stylish newcomer that although very efficient and excellent for those who love to "ring steel" at long ranges and great for deer, etc, I'd hardly call it an "elk cartridge", much less "ideal". Your opinion is duly noted but these elk might not agree. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5896/6UBVRA.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6673/BL8B1Y.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/8804/ozRVSN.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9959/jq70es.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5628/Bur5bd.jpg)
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Posts: 42,600
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 42,600 |
Very nice kills, but I'm sure someone can post equally impressive elk pics taken with a 243, 250 Savage, 3030, etc. Still not an elk (kudu, sable, zebra....etc)cartridge... In *my* opinion with an "impressive" one elk to my name...
Last edited by jorgeI; 02/28/19.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,070
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Very nice kills, but I'm sure someone can post equally impressive elk pics taken with a 243, 250 Savage, 3030, etc. Still not an elk (kudu, sable, zebra....etc)cartridge... In *my* opinion with an "impressive" one elk to my name... Your stalwart ability to ignore real world results and cling to past bias is noteworthy. I shall post another 6.5MM Cm elk in your honor. ![[Linked Image]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5515/KMs9D9.jpg)
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 754
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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"A person that carries a cat home by the tail will receive information that will always be useful to him." Mark Twain
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Posts: 21,766
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm with Jorgel,
Couldn't count the cows I've seen hit the dirt to a 22lr.
Some weighing over a ton.
Darn certain it would work as well on cape buffalo,
But I'm not gonna be the tester.
These threads are funny.
Anyone with a brain knows that this is opinion, based on individual prejudices and experiences.
Not something that can be proven in any definitive way.
But I do "know" that i like a margin above "enough".
That said, I wouldn't let my Sweede be the reason to stay home, if it was the only
rifle I had to hunt elk.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Those black guns sure are popular with elk hunters it seems.
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Campfire Regular
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I'm building a large frame AR in 6.5 Hipster cause I wanna play with the round. I don't consider it the be-all end-all of rifle calibers though. That's the 6.5 Grendel, as it kills elk and moose at stupid ranges with minimal recoil, and it's cheap to load too.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,600 |
Very nice kills, but I'm sure someone can post equally impressive elk pics taken with a 243, 250 Savage, 3030, etc. Still not an elk (kudu, sable, zebra....etc)cartridge... In *my* opinion with an "impressive" one elk to my name... Your stalwart ability to ignore real world results and cling to past bias is noteworthy. I shall post another 6.5MM Cm elk in your honor. I think it's more of one's ability to read and grasp what someone else is saying as the locus of the issue. Nobody and certainly not me, has uttered the word "inadequate". From another thread posted by someone who I know can go toe-to-toe with numbers of elk, African game, you name it with anybody else on this forum: I believe the old saying went something like "Beware the man with one gun, etc". In the past 30 some years I've done the bulk of my hunting with a 300mag. Prior to that I tried about everything from the 243 clear thru the 375 H&H to hunt deer, elk, antelope and varmints.When I finally got around to getting a 300 Win mag things changed, it shot great and didn't belt me into tomorrow, and boy did it put things on the ground right now! About this time I started hunting a lot, and that 300 came along on virtually every trip. Killed my share of most everything on license and never once had a 300 in my hands and wished for something different. For me, it's proven to be the single best cartridge I've ever used and one I have the utmost confidence in. I never had to try it but my old buddy Allen Day even shot 2 cape buffalo with his 300 after his 458 developed problems while on safari. I used larger calibers on dangerous game where mandated by law or the stern advice from the outfitter but except for those species I've killed virtually everything with the 300s. Many deer, elk and antelope have fallen to smaller calibers as well, in particular the 270, but when the chips are down or the big money has been spent on a far away hunt, there's no question which rifle I'll reach for. I don't care if others want to shoot 30/06s or 270s or any other cartridge, they all work in the right hands. I just never bonded with any of them like I did with the 300.
Last edited by jorgeI; 03/01/19.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Posts: 88
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 88 |
6.5 Creedmoor: ("The Millenial Caliber") The one caliber that can do anything you want and never experience hurt on your shoulders.
A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 973 |
6.5 Creedmoor: ("The Millenial Caliber") The one caliber that can do anything you want and never experience hurt on your shoulders. Yeah, disabled people are obviously less manly than you. Retard.
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Posts: 4,844
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,844 |
6.5 Creedmoor: ("The Millenial Caliber") The one caliber that can do anything you want and never experience hurt on your shoulders. I have no dog in this fight, but had to chuckle at that. Thanks for a Friday afternoon laugh.
"An archer sees how far he can be from a target and still hit it, a bowhunter sees how close he can get before he shoots." It is certainly easy to use that same line of thinking with firearms. -- Unknown
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17,260 |
shrapnel,
How many times a day,do you think about me? Not on a Special Day,just on the average?
HINT.
Bless your heart.
Laughing!................
Every time I flush the toilet, I wonder when you’re down there, if your mouth is still open... LMAO That is rich!
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