Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters REDUCE LOADS

Quite frequently......

I've used the 115 grain HP Speer for deer in the past....30/30 ranges and many blacktail
are antelope sized...

but a 210 lb Big Bruzer presented himself one morning at about 8 AM, as under 50 yds

a 115 grain HP right thru the heart dropped him like a sack of potatoes...

That load was fueled by 28 grain of SR 4759 if memory serves me correctly.....

I do a lot of that stuff with a lot of my rifles... makes it enjoyable to shoot them at the range
or out in the woods plinking with them... and most of those loads are pretty darn accurate.
but also more up to killing power than people give them credit for...

Those loads with the lighter bullets don't kick more than a 223/ 22.250
and certainly less than a factory 243 load.

Seafire, Do you know what the velocity is with the 30 grs. 4198/139 Hornady and 28 grs. 4759/115 Speer?
I have used 20 grs. 4759 and Lyman's 284308 GC bullet (160 grs.) for 1724 fps with fair accuracy but, the really fun load is 10 grains Unique and Lyman's 287346 GC (130 grs.) for 1327 fps. That last load gives squirrel head accuracy to 50 yards and it's fun, fun, fun.

Thanks for the info fellas. I must admit I was looking for a different answer. I worked my way down to 12 grs of H4905 if memory serves, but the report was still loud, and the primers looked funny. Even though the groups started tightening up a bit I didn't feel right about dropping the charge any further. I made the cases from 223 brass (for the first time) , and between that and the aforementioned stuff i quit.

Your best be
Your best bet for reducing loads is going to be with pistol powders. My brother has a nice Remington Limited in 221 FB, and he has had excellent results from several powders, including Unique, Longshot, and Titegroup.

I know you can run as low as 4 grains of Blue Dot in a 223 with no ignition issues... and
6 grains max was a published load by Alliant in the early 80s for the Hornet....

so for a Fireball, it would be an application...

I know I did a 17 Fireball load for a friend who had one, but he has since passed away,
and that was utilizing Blue Dot... ( and NO he didn't pass from blowing up something
with the Blue Dot, he just passed being 83 years old)

I'd start at 2.5 grains of Blue Dot and work from there...

When ever I get around to getting a 17 Fireball barrel, for something, I can let you know then

or if someone has a good deal on a slightly used Rem Model 7 Predator in 17 Fireball
I could let you know after one of those fell into my hands...

For those following this thread, reduced loads is a broad field and is different
than regular powders for a rifle..

it more follows what pistol reloading is like since you are using pistol and shot
gun powders...
if you don't know what you are doing.. I wouldn't recommend it without a mentor
who does...

Joe,

sorry I don't... I did know what they are... but they are safe and certainly work
at 30/30 ranges, so I sorta forgot, and really didn't have the need to consult it

and Lord knows where my notes are...

if it is that critical to you my friend, I could load a couple up and pull out the old
chronograph...

A very illustrative thread... and I specialy appreciate Seafire's sound advise...

So, I would like to ask, since I have VARGET but do not have and cannot find H4895 locally... could I work with VARGET like is suggested to work with H4895? A 50% filled case of VARGET would be a safe load in cartridges like 6,6x57R, 7x57R o .270...?

When you use very small quantities of powder, like with 4198 or any of the pistol and shotgun powders, do you use any kind of filler or you jut let those few grains wander around the almost empty shell?

Thank You,

I don't use filler with 4198, or with any other type of powders that prove to
be position sensitive in the case for reliable ignition.

Filler just increases your pressure...

I also don't use mag primers in these reduced loads..

Small Rifle or Large Rifler primes have proven to more than up to the task
in any instance I have used them in...

And yes, I have experimented with Mag Rifle primers, Pistol Primers, Mag Pistol primers...
so I have compared them....and prefer Regular rifle primers....

I don't buy into the full case is best theory...

Seafire, certainly not anywhere near critical just the loonie coming out of me.

You can use trail boss for a subsonic load. I load it to get a 1100 feet per second quiet pig killer.

With 308, 7x57, 270 size cartridges using H4895 and VARGET at or below the 50% level I have often encountered the lack of complete ignition leaving kernels of powder in the bore and chamber after case extraction, at least with cast bullets. This may not be an issue with jacketed bullets.

I've had much success with AL-8 and reduced jacketed bullet loads. It was suggested that "Blue-dot data can be used" but since no one had experience with it I ventured out on my own. Keeping it in the 60-70% vicinity I have been able to duplicate much of Seafire's blue-dot data. Accuracy isn't always there with certain combinations, but when it is it sure is nice to have an accurate mild load to play with.

4198 is one of my favorites in the 06 family as well. My Whelen with exceed 250 gr factory velocities by more than 100 fps with a 260 gr pure lead slug with that powder. Haven't killed anything but rocks with it but it does a fine job at that out to 450 yards.

I like Blue Dot more than most for the exercise, but I'm dealing with small to low medium cap cases. 5.5 gr runs a 185 gr cast bullet from the Sneezer at a consistent 1050 fps. Same charge boots 320 grains from a .44 mag case in the 950 realm. So far nothing treated with this medicine has walked away.

I don't like the thought of using a powder charge small enough it could be doubled . How about LIL GUN ? Would it be fast enough powder to reduce the fireball to 1800- 2000 fps with a 55gr sp safely ?

Lil Gun is also a full-power powder in the Fireball, but it's far better for reducing than 4198. My brother's fastest, most accurate load in his FB with 55's uses Lil Gun.

Couple of ways to avoid the double charge problem. One is to use bulk powder such as SR4759, Trailboss, etc. Another is to visually inspect charged cases with a flashlight before seating the bullet. Li'l Gun is essentially a fine grain ball powder and requires inspection for reduced loads.

I've run a lot of loads of 36 grains of IMR4198 through a 270/130 combo. It works great.

For even less recoil, 13 grains of Red Dot.

36 grains of 4198 is what I found when I dissected a couple of Rem's Managed Recoil loads
in 270.. but I think they were using a 110 grain bullet instead...Sierra's...

but then again, that is a great load, if you need more range than the 30 grains of 4198 give ya...

I like the 30 grain load, as it is an easy number to remember, works on about any cartridge from
243 and up and bullet weight isn't an issue...

its easy on the brass for we handloaders also...

and either's accuracy is more than most folks would believe as they only usually buy it for their kids..

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