Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Strange results from The Mauser From Hell

So I have this sporterized K98 Mauser in 8X57. It came to me as a deal sweetener. It's had all sorts of problems, but little by little I've worked through them over the past 4 years. Today I had it out for the first time to shoot with a newly reworked scope mount and a new scope. I loaded 175 grain Prvi Partisans over H4895 and gave it a go. My results were strange.

Round 1 and 2 were about 1.5 feet high and a foot to the right, grouping inside 4 inches.

Round 3, 4, and 5 are in a decent pattern starting 2 inches high from the bull at 12 O'clock and working their way down to 1" out at 3 O'Clock. I let the barrel cool a bit and round 6 was 2 feet out at 10 O'Clock. The next round is back in close to the bull.

I've shot some screwy groups before. This rifle was shooting minute of bushel basket when I first got it, and realized the reason why was the threads were stripped on the back end of the mount. However, I sent it off to new gunsmith this spring and it came back with his assurance the mounting problem was fixed. If it was consistently throwing them all over the target board, I'd be able to understand this. A flyer or two I could grasp. However, I'm trying to figure out how a rifle could throw a flyer 2 feet out and then come back close to the bull.

This is the original stepped barrel and the action has been bedded by a previous owner.


I"m interested in y'all's thoughts.

My guess, it sounds like something is loose in the mounts/rings or scope for it to come back in like that.

Any pitting in the original barrel? I had a .308 I picked up used that would shift point of impact about 6 inches from a clean to fouled bore, then settle in. Visible pitting in the barrel.

As to this being scope/mount related, I have recent history with that problem. In fact the way the Mauser from Hell got its name was related to this. Because the previous smiths had boogered the rear screw hole, the POI would jump around. I'd get 2 or three close together, and then I'd get a group over here and then over there. The POI jumped until the scope got knocked loose and then it would point to a new spot for a few shots. Supposedly the scope and mount are straightend out now. Before, the rifle never returned to a previous POI.

Pitting did occur to me. When I first got the rifle it was badly fouled with copper. I removed the copper, scrubbed the heck out of the barrel and then applied Dyna Borecoat. Yes there is probably a pit here and there.

I know it's a pain, put I'd suggest mounting another scope that you know is good. Can't think of anything else offhand that would cause what you describe, assuming the smith fixed the mount. Wouldn't be surprised if the mount wasn't the real issue at all, despite the loose screw, depending on the type of mount. A collimater might reveal that without swapping scopes if you have one, but I've only used one a couple of times for bore-sighting while working in a store.

Oh, believe me, the mount WAS a problem. It had a Leupold STD mount when I got it. With the threads stripped, it was flopping all over the place. Furthermore, one of the smiths overtightened the gross windage adjustment and the head came off the screw as I was attempting to loosen it. There have been 3 smiths involved. The first one boogered the internal thread. The second one jammed a larger screw in the hole semi-cockeyed and used some epoxy. The third, a recently retired fellow on this illustrious forum, took the job on of cleaning up the mess, and as far as I can tell his work is holding steady. He mounted a fresh Leupold STD 1-piece mount and rings and tested it before sending it back to me.

Thanks for the idea.

I've got a collimater. I'll give that a shot tonight. It was just freshly bore-sighted before this shooting session, so if it's off I'll know.

Try another scope. I mounted a 10 yo Burris Fullfield on a rifle last week. It had been stored in a drawer for several years. I thought something wasn't right when sighting it at 25 yards. Moved to 100 and it was all over the target, so I've boxed it up to go back to Burris.

That's what I was thinking, mount or scope issue.

Hence my caveat about mount type. The 3-screw std would be pretty wiggly with a loose base screw and/or windage srcew. Still, since you're still having trouble, something else is clearly wrong. Can't imagine a mildly pitted bore throwing shots that wildly. Replacing the scope is a quick way to eliminate one possibility.

The collimater should show if the reticle jumps around, I would think. Also, come to think of it, a cracked stock or REALLY bad bedding might cause your issue, but the huge jumps of POI are striking, no pun intended.

One other thing you might try is epoxying the scope-mount base to the action. I know more than one gunsmith who's used this trick to deal with 98 Mausers where a screw-hole can easily be buggered, or even become slightly loose, because the thin bridge wasn't originally designed for scope-mount screws. In fact, this is the way my .375 H&H Mark X Mauser's rear base is mounted, using Acra-Glas Gel. If you decide to change mounts later, it can easily be removed by heating the base.

You can also have the mounting holes converted to larger 8-40 screws, but that doesn't solve the problem of very few threads inside the hole, which often causes the problem in the first place.

The last smith to touch this rifle did just that to clean up the messes from the other smiths. It appears to be holding.

I'm thinking to myself - "Surely he's checked the stock bedding screws ! "

shaman,

Then the rifle is possessed by demons. I've owned a few of those over the years.

With a torque wrench.

Yep, demons. Try an old priest and a young priest, and tumble your bullets in holy water.

Make sure the rear guard screw has it`s steel spacer in the stock hole!!!or in drawing down the action screw, you`ll warp the action, then wonder why the gun don`t shoot. Seen this more than once.

CGPaul: I did not see this response until now. I'll definately put this on the to-do list.

I got up this morning and went down to the bench and started working through the suggestions.

1) The bore sighter showed the scope had not moved. I then rapped the scope in various places and looked again. Again, no change. My guess is the mount is ok. I did not change out the scope. However, it's a new scope. And the fact that the zero had stayed put indicates to me this is not the problem.

2) I checked the screws. 60 lbs on the front and just beyond hand-tight on the rear. I could still slip a bill down the outside of the barrel.

3) While I was putting the bore sighter away, I noticed the bullets out on the bench. I purchased these back in 2013 from Grafs. They're PRVI Partisan 175 grain PSP's. What caught my eye was that they're marked .322" . All other 8mm bullets are .323" I don't know if .001" is significant. However, I have since acquired some Hornady 170 grain IL RN's . I think I may cook up a batch of those and see if there is a difference.

4) I inspected the muzzle crown one more time. There's nothing there that looks obviously out of place.

5) In regards to M. Mule Deer's concerns, I gave the whole rifle a good shake from the rattle and tapped it gently with a used tomato stake, while commanding all demons within to depart. I then put it back in the rack next to the M1 Garand. Normally I keep these two rifles on opposite ends of the rack for obvious reasons. However, under the circumstances, I figure the commanding presence of the Garand will have positive effects.

I would check alignment with a boresighter, just to establish a reference point. Then fire a half dozen shots fairly quickly and then check with the boresighter again while the barrel is hot, just to see if things shifted. Then check again after barrel has thoroughly cooled to see if it settled back to the original reference point.

Wouldn't be the first military Mauser barrel I saw that walked around as it heated up. I had a 7x57 Mauser that did pretty much what yours is doing. A fresh barrel cured that rifle's ills. (unless I inadvertently corrected some other issue in the process.)

Also, my old man had a set of el-cheapo Herter's dies that loaded the crookedest ammo you ever saw, which performed as egregiously as your range report. A new set of good dies cured that nonsense too.

Its either overbore for the bullets you are using or the barrel has a lot of stress. If you feel it is the proper bore size, stock/scope screws are in place properly torqued, scope is good, then you could try a set of LEE Pacesetter dies (the cheapest usually yet good dies) if you feel your dies are OK, try some Sierra bullets instead of the Privi. If you don't want to go to the expense of a new barrel, then the next best thing is to send the barreled action off and have it Cryogenically treated. It will take out any bad stress. Usually under $200, but shop around. Midway USA used to sell Mauser Adams & Bennett short chambered barrels for around $90 bucks! You may find a good "take off" barrel on Ebay, etc too. Its just how much you want to mess with this thing. "Myself", it would get traded off or sold cheap, ha. Good luck to you though, sorry you got a Lemon.

I'm inclined to go with the, "It's a scope problem." I had a Leupold go south and do exactly like you described. I sent it back and they fixed it.

I don't care it's a totally brand new scope. I recently bought as expensive (for me) scope and when I mounted it on the rifle and did the bore site process, got the elevation just fine but the windage would not adjust. Went a few clicks then locked up tight. backed it off and tried again but it locked up again. Sent it back and they fixed it. So yeah, even brand new scopes can be bad.

If that rifle was mine I'd trie a new scope of known reliability.
Paul B.

I'd be inclined to shave about 0.050" off the end of the front guard screw and shoot it again after trying another scope shows no change.

I don't mean to disagree with y'all on the scope being the source of the problem. However, a different bullet seems like the easier thing to try next. I'm not discounting any answer yet.

What has me deuced in all instances, and is the motivation for starting this thread, is figuring out the mechanism by which you can have 3 good shots and then one outrageous flyer and then go back to shooting where it was before. Once thrown out of kilter, how does it (whatever it is) know where to come back to? When I first got the rifle, I was having a heck of a time until I discovered the mounting screw was AFU. In that case I'd get 2 or 3 shots in one spot and then it'd move somewhere else and then 3 shots later it'd be somewhere else entirely. It never came back to where it was originally shooting.


That is one reason I have for trying a different bullet. A bullet with flaky mfg or QC might cause the trouble. It's one of the few possible causes that does fit the pattern. I only say that, because the only time I've seen anything approaching this is when I started casting my own muzzleloader bullets. If I tried one of the goofy ones that did not cast right, or if I gouged a big smile on the bullet while I was seating it, it was usually certain to go off into space.

any chance you have a .318 barrel? I was thinking there were two different sized bullets for 8mm. Possibly the previous shot the rifle with the wrong bullets often.

I have not slugged the barrel yet. That might be a good thing to do before proceeding further.

However, I will say the previous owner threw in 500 rounds of surplus 8mm, so I know it's been shot with standard military ammo prior to this.

A faulty scope's internals can bounce back and forth, giving the results you describe of throwing fliers and then coming back to the previous POI.

Different mechanism for sure- however- I had a Mini-14 all tricked out for accuracy "except" that first round loaded by charging it from the magazine went high & right 5", then the rest (which loaded by the gas action) all went where they were supposed to! ha
I also have had new scopes that flaked out and a couple more that moved back and forth several inches, 2-3 tot he left, the next 2-3 to the right, etc. I think anything man made is subject to screwing up royally, ha. Keep us posted though as to what you do, but take some Tums, and count to ten before doing anything rash to it!

I had that EXACT problem. Three or four shots in a tight group, then bang 2 feet off. Two or three shots into the new group and bang 18 inches off in a different direction. I shot nearly 100 rounds of .270 one day trying to lock down a zero. It was the most frustrating experience I ever had with a firearm. In my case, it was the scope. I bought a new, relatively cheap scope and the problem disappeared. If you have a good scope on another rifle, I would try it.

But what about under the barrel? and down both sides.

My swede acted that way. I finally noticed the barrel wasn't consistent with a tight patch. Then I found the leupold scope was afu. Fixed those two things and now it shoots.

Well, I'm back from the range. I've got good news and bad news.

Good news: It was the bullet. I shot 180 grain Hornady Interlock RN over H4895 and got no flyers. It was not a tight group, but it was a group. I shot 10 rounds and they all stayed inside a pie plate with room to spare.

Bad news: After all that trouble, all I have left is about a 4 MOA rifle with the current choice of bullet. I'm not done with it yet. However, that's where it stands.

Thanks all for you kind imput.

Hmm, have to wonder how many more dollars worth of powder and bullets you should send down that barrel in the quest for satisfactory accuracy. Do you think playing with seating depth might yield some results? Have you measured the chamber/throat? Just a thought.

Yep. I don't think the OP is open to changing out the scope, since it is "new", therefore shouldn't have anything wrong with it...... I also wouldn't trust another man's bedding job if the rifle is not shooting up to par. It's easy to re-glass bed a rifle and that would confirm it's not the problem...

[quote]I also wouldn't trust another man's bedding job if the rifle is not shooting up to par. It's easy to re-glass bed a rifle and that would confirm it's not the problem...[quote]

Exactly!! The barrel could even be touching the wood in places under the barrel also. That'll give you accuracy fits too.

Yep

10 shots with a different scope without adjustment would tell you if it was the the scope

Well, actually the reason I didn't change out the scope was partly that, and partly because I found the .322" bullets and got to wondering. I had the Hornadys handy and figured the change of bullet would be an easy try. I also had a new scope on order as a backup plan. It arrived while I was at the farm.

I think my next time out, I'll try shimming the barrel and see what that does. I also know I can also get a tad closer to the lands on the next batch of rounds. This is a project that has some hope left to it. 4MOA is not that bad a position to be in. It may not have a chance to improve on it before this deer season, but certainly before the next one.

Could still be a bad scope.

You're right, Mister Smith. It could be. However, I've now got a bunch of other things that are more likely candidates. Chief among them is the fact that I am at least the third owner in the past decade and the last one coughed this one up as a deal sweatener and threw in gobs of ammo to boot. That says a lot. For all the stories you read out there with fairytale endings, the average military Mauser wearing its existing barrel has quite often ended up a 2-4 MOA rifle-- not a tomato stake, but not a tack driver either.

I'm not giving up yet, but. . .

I get where you’re coming from, but if it were my rifle and I had a spare scope laying around, I’d spend the few minutes to mount the other scope so I’d know for sure about the functionality of the first one.

FWIW a me too story. My son had an early version Remington 700 SS Mountain rifle that shot OK at first but after a few months would shoot two rounds tight and close to the bull from a cold barrel and then jump subsequent rounds over a foot high and to the right in a loose group.

It took awhile to figure out. One day I was examining the synthetic stock and noticed a tiny trace of bulge on the right side wall just behind the recoil lug. Bingo. The stock was too flimsy to hold 30-06 recoil with 180 grain hunting loads and was buckling on that side, then flexing back to original shape. When cold it was a little bit stiffer or stronger for one or two shots but repeated recoil blows would soon cause the stock to flex. It took some talking but Remington replaced the stock. No problem thereafter.

You have some factor that is changing after two shots, one factor or possibly a chain of small failures among the multitude of factors that comprise the shot event.

If your scope is good then I'd figure out some way to test the bedding/stock. Do you have one of those cradles that hold a rifle?

Have you checked the rear guard screw spacer yet?? Is it there?

1. Check the length of the front 2 scope base screws. Should be able to remove and look down the front screw hole to see if the scope base screw is contacting the barrel threads. Stick you pinky up into the top recoil lug recess and see if you can feel the hole or screw sticking through the hole for the middle screw. Another easy way to see if the middle screw is contacting the top recoil lug when in battery is to examine the outside face of the lug and look for a drag mark from a long screw.

One could also file the ends of the screws shiny, then sharpie them black, tighten, remove, and look for contact where the screws were sharpied.

2. Fill the front action screw face shiny, sharpie black, tighten, remove, look for shiny spots in the sharpie that would indicate contact where it shouldn't be.

I've recently experienced these troubles on non-mausers. I didn't think there was any way those issues could be MY culprit, until nothing else made sense.

I got down to the secret underground firearms bunker this AM and checked.

Negative. There is no spacer.

In regards to scope base screws: I was unable to make that determination. The Mauser from Hell is a long story. However, suffice it to say that the last smith to work on it knew what he was doing and got the scope mounted properly. For insurance, the base is epoxied to the rifle. There will be no screws removed in that area.

I checked the front action screw this AM. Nothing impinged on the sharpie marks.



I wish to add a correction. This is a stepped barrel. In the past, I was only able to slide a dollar bill down the barrel to the step. This AM I added a shim under the barrel about an inch from its attachment to the receiver. On my next trip out to the range, I want to see if this changes the size of the group. If so, I believe that accuracy may be improved by just going back with re-free-floating the barrel with a bit of sandpaper.

Put your shim where the bottom of the action contacts the stock.
That will float your barrel with minimal torque on barrel and action.
With your shim job, the shim provides a fucrum, the tight screw is the force.
You are bending the barrel and action.

People make bedding hard, it's very simple.

If possible, you want the part of the action that has the screw holes to contact the
stock evenly and firmly.

The recoil lug should bear firmly at the rear, and snug on sides. Front is contested.
Bottom of lug should not touch. Unless, the screw holes are in the lug, then floating it
will induce stress when the screws are tightened.

I will make that correction before shooting. Thanks.

The lack of the spacer, if indeed it was NOT there when bedded, would have allowed the action to be warped, therefore the bedding is warped. Your rifle is not going to shoot like that. Trust me...been there done that. You should be able to get one from Brownells etc. The spacer also acts as a trueing device for the action, in if the rear guard screw contacts the spacer and is hard to screw into the rear of the action, the action is not square to the bottom floor plate.
If you really look at Mausers design, with the rear spacer in, you will realize it is one of the first, if not the first, to be piller bedded. Another reason the stocks of mil.spec k98 are so well machined, and the recoil lug engages the steel insert in the stock. Get a solid square foundation for the action, and the gun will shoot.
Good Luck

I have ordered a spacer.

I've bedded a LOT of Mausers without the spacer/pillar, but the tang does need support, otherwise the action can bend easily, because the tang isn't all that stiff. Epoxy bedding will do the job as well (and often better) than the spacer.

It's difficult to temporarily shim-bed the front end of a 98 Mauser action to test whether free-floating can help, because the front action screw is in the middle of the recoil lug. This was common with many actions back then, including the 1903 Springfield, Arisaka, 1917 Enfield, Winchester Model 54 and others, and is the reason for the common belief that the rear of the barrel has to bedded along with the recoil lug.

The period after WWII, when many "war surplus" bolt action rifles could be purchased cheaply, was also when epoxy bedding originated, and those actions did benefit from epoxy-bedding the rear of the barrel.The need to bed the rear of the barrel disappeared when more bolt-action manufacturers placed the front action screw behind the recoil lug, where tightening it wouldn't bend the front of the action. Most modern actions, including the Model 70 Winchester and Remington 700, have the action screw behind the lug, but a few do not, including the Howa and Nosler 48--the reason both often benefit from bedding the rear of the barrel when bedding the recoil lug.

If you really tighten the front action screw of a 98 without some support of the barrel shank, the front end of the action can bend down, causing erratic contact between the bolt lugs and their recesses. So if you do a temporary shim-test of the action, DON'T tighten the front action lug really hard. It should be firmly tightened, but not enough to bend the action.

I've currently got it torqued down to 60 lbs. Is that too much?

Bedding the action without the spacer is all well and good, as lonk as the action remains nuturalaly held in place...that is, with out the guard screws..this process takes some finess, so if one doesn`t know what there doing, the action will be warped, therefore the bedding, therefor poor results on target.

Shaman, if I were you I would stop now, wait for the spacer, then give the gun to someone that knows how to properly bed it. This will probably result in the removal of the stuff now in the stock.
I have used many comercial wood stocks, none of which were very well machined for the 98..probably because there so many different versions...but I`ll tell you that as a composit, HS is hard to beat,...tho we had to skim bed for a perfect fit. You may want to consider this option.

The plastic bread bag cliPS make a good shim for threaded recoil lug actions. They already have a hole, trim to suit.

shaman,

Yes, I'd say 60 inch-pounds is way too much. I'd try it with no more than 40.

Cool. I'm just going to pull the action out and wait for the spacer to arrive.



CGPaul:

Giving it to a 'smith to bed sounds like an attractive idea. However, I'm not really sure this is even the right deer rifle for me. This is my first flirt with 8X57, and it fell into my hands rather than me going out to seek it. Yes, it's in the same basic niche as my 30-06s and 308 WIN, but it frankly seems to be giving me more recoil with less effective range. At 4MOA, I'm going to have to keep this rifle shooting inside 100 yards on a deer to be sure of where I'm shooting. I'd made a promise to myself to buy one more 30-06 (which I did in 2014) and then start working my way down the ladder from there. As a for-instance, 7X57 would be an ideal next step.

I wanted to make sure the last 'smith that touched it had cured the scope mount issues. My guess is he did. Now I'm trying to decide if the rifle is accurate enough to keep, or if it needs to be sent down the road. In the back of my head I know I can get a nice new Ruger in a 7mm chambering for what I'm probably going to throw into this giving it to a 'smith to fine tune. That last Ruger Hawkeye shot 1 MOA with its first test load.

Yes, I understand....sometimes these rifles can drive one nuts!
Do me a favor and maybe you a favor. I`ve been talking to you about warping the action, or springing it, without the rear spacer. To help you either prove or disprove the action had been warped, place it back into the stock, draw down the guard screws to about 40lbs each, then place a finger so it contacts both wood and metal on the ring in the front of the action, with the other hand loosen and tighten the front guard screw. If the action is warped, you will feel the action pulling away from the stock as you loosen the screw, and back down again as you tighten it. If nothing happens, do the same with the rear screw, with a finger in contact with both tang and wood. Let us know what happened. Best case nothing moves, worse, both move. The spacer should help, but you may have to redrill the hole to fit the spacer.
Someone also mentioned the scope...that action is about 8 3/4 inches long, mounting holes for the bases are about 5 inches c/c. If the action is sprong, then the scope will be too.
Sorry this so long...hope this may be helpfull.

Actually, I've already tried this. As I was taking the rifle out of the stock, I tightened and loosened the screws, observing and feeling what was happening as I did so. The action is going in and coming out of the stock as optimally as I can imagine. I'll try this again after the spacer arrives.

Don't apologize, amigo. I'm looking for help any way I can get it. I'm getting a heck of an education as I'm going too.

I`m glad you did.The goal here is to tighten and loosen the front guard screw, and not have the action move.

[The guys that worked on this rifle were not gunsmiths........

Take a band saw and cut it into little pieces.

Buy a Ruger American

Be Happy



LC

From the way it looks, the guy that built this rifle knew what he was doing. That was probably some time ago. It probably wore the original sights. At some point later, it got drilled for a scope and that was when the fun began.

The two guys preceeding the last one were goons. The first of these is a well-known dastard. He probably munged up the rear scope mount hole. The second fellow was only in business a short time. I figure he's the one that over-tightened the Leupold windage screws and added the larger screw to the mount to catch the remaining threads. I sent two firearms to this fellow for simple fixes. Both required extensive work by other smiths to get them un-F-'d. He went to jail shortly thereafter for selling firearms to known felons.

The last fellow, the guy who got the scope mount fixed, was a retiring gunsmith from here on the 'Fire. Mine was his last job. He seemed to have fixed the problem with the scope mount. I am certain he was competent, but he was not involved with any of the other stuff.

I'm not going to give it up to the bandsaw. If nothing else I'll be able to wangle a trade at the LGS. However, yes. A Ruger American would be good replacement.

Shimming worked. I put a shim around the front bedding screw and headed off to the farm. We had a lot of chores planned, so I didn't get to shoot until late on Sunday.

Great news. The shim got the groups down to 2 inches or roughly thereabouts. That puts into the quit-dicking-around-and-go-hunt range. I'm going to stick with things as they are until after deer season.

I also managed to prove out it was the bullets that caused the problem. I had 10 rounds of the PRVI Partisans. Moose, Angus and I tried a few each. We've got a small pond out beyond one of the 100 yard target frames. All you have to do is fire at where the water meets the muddy far bank and you get a geyser of mud and water-- great for checking function. Sure enough, 4 of the rounds hit nothing discernable. If the pattern stuck, they passed silently into the mud higher up on the bank.

Thanks all for your help.

Glad you got the thing ready for deer season! Nothing worse, to me, than to have a rifle go nuts real close to hunting season, ha. I hunted for years down in East Texas (grew up there) with a Mod 742 '06 that would only do about 4" with Federal 165 SBT. With Remington 150CLs it would only do about 5-6"! Iron sights, btw. Of course, in those woods I hunted I never killed any deer or hog further than about 60yds away with it either, ha.
I remember when it was very, very common down there to see a lot of Military Sporters....a few Mauser 98s (8mm) a couple Mod 93 7x57s, '303s, a lot of the little carbine 6.5 "Eyetalians", and bookoo 1917 Enfields. None had scopes of course. Folks in my neck of the woods weren't 'well heeled", and the most common "nice guns", were the Mod 94 Winchester and the Remington 740, later the Mod 742. My best friend had a Sears JC Higgins Mod 50(?) '06 that I drooled over! I bought my first "really nice gun", a Mod 94 Classic carbine in 1968, on time, paid for by odd jobs. It was a beauty, but the chamber was oval shaped, fired cases had a bulge on on side! Up to 50yds, I could shoot a squirrels head off, but at 100 it would barely do 4" and at 150yds I only "nicked" an antifreeze jug once out of five shots! No matter, furtherest kill was 90 long steps on a hog! Everything else, hogs & deer were way under 50! ha. You are in "high cotton" with a 2" shooter, lol. Have a ball friend!

It sounds as though you have things calmed down for now. Congrats. BUT, I noticed you mentioned an inspection of the muzzle crown. I would suggest a re-crowning of the muzzle. Visual inspections don't always reveal flaws.

I bought a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine in 444 Marlin that simply refused to hit a washing machine at 50 yds. I tried everything, nothing worked...until I re-crowned the muzzle. Now it shoots nice tight little groups. I am the 3rd owner, and I guarantee the previous owners gave up on it.

Update:

I had the Mauser from Hell back out to the range on Saturday. I put 20 rounds of the Hornady 170 grain RN through it. The wind was gusty, so it really played hell with the groups, but even with that handicap, I was keeping everything inside Minute-of-Deer accuracy. I'm going back and load 50 rounds of the ammo and run a few more through before season, but I think we can call this one fixed.

Shaman,

Thanks for letting us share your journey. I have enjoyed learning from this thread.

Thanks to all who offered ideas and suggestions! That's what makes this place the best on the internet!

Best wishes for your hunting season, can't wait to see the results.

Ed

...........................My thoughts as well. It's been real interesting. Keep us updated and good luck.

Thank you. Sorry I did not have chance to respond before now. If you read elsewhere in the forum, I spent yesterday putting down our dog. It's been a bummer.

Unlike a gunwriter, or even an outdoor writer, I figure myself to be a writer that likes the outdoors. Of all the places I've been on the web, this particular venue seems to be the best place I've found for straight answers to firearms questions. This thread is typical. I don't mean to carp, quite the contrary. However, if you read through it, you see that just about every possible avenue was discussed: scope, mount, stock, bullet, seating depth, bore, etc. Nobody could satisfactorily put their finger on the problem, though a lot of people wanted to blame the scope of the mount. The scope was nearly brand new, and rifle had just come back from a gunsmith who had tested to make sure everything concerning the mount was rock solid. However, having the discussion certainly clarified the issues for me.

The one other possibility occurred to me as I was shooting Saturday. Unlike previous years, the grass at the farm has been growing exceptionally well this year. However, my edging mower has been in the shop all summer. I just got it back. As I was looking through my scope, I noticed a couple stalks had grown high enough about 20 yards out that they might have impinged on the original rounds. Just to make sure, I had a scrap of plywood at hand and laid it down on the most likely offenders. If it was the cause, it makes sense in that only 1 out of every 3-4 rounds was going wild. That could have been a stalk blowing into the field of fire just out of the sight picture due to parallax. I bet no one thought of a chunk of plywood could be a solution, did ya?

A bunch of us mentioned the scope because, IME, after dealing with lots of rifle accuracy problems, scope failure is the most common cause that I’ve run into.

Oh, and I'd be the first to admit I was being a tad pig-headed in thinking it was probably not.

I was listening. I had a brand new scope at hand to swap out if the change of bullet didn't change things. That was going to be my next step.

Glad you got it sorted out, Shaman!

I'm sorry to hear about your dog. I've had to do that too many times in my life and know the sadness.

As to the plywood solution, that's thinking outside the box!

Ed

I've got another datum to add to this project:

I originally loaded up .322" bullets. That batch of 20 rounds required trimming after 1 shooting, and the second batch made the brass grow about half the way to needing trimming again.

The second batch of bullets were the Hornady the .323" Hornady RN's. I've now fired them twice and the brass has only grown half the length to needing resizing.

Interesting. I figure a rifle loony would appreciate it.

I'm back from deer camp. Everyone filled their tags. The Mauser From Hell went out on several occasions. I think a picture will say it all:



Details here:

Tagged Out in 2017

Bottom line: I'm kicking myself for not taking more time with the rifle before season. When the moment of truth came, I found I could not get the K98's safety off with a gloved hand. I ended up muffing a shot at a nice doe Sunday morning. I went out again in the afternoon. This time, I dropped one in its tracks at 185 yards.

Although I'm sure the MFH is now worthy as a deer rifle, it still needs work. Right now, it's shimmed. I plan on removing more material from the forearm so that it is properly free-floated. Also, before it goes out hunting again, I need to change out the safety. I would like y'all's opinion on a safety. I prefer a 3-position, but I'm not sure about the expense.

SuperCore, its previous owner, was amazed at the improvement in the MFH. He'd owned it for over a decade and never been able to get it to shoot better than minute of bushel basket. At camp, he filled me in on its history. He'd been dating a widow back many years ago, and helped her sell off her husband's gun collection. The fellow had turned to drink in his latter years and ruined many of his pieces in blind rages. One very nice double-barrelled stainless SXS had been wrapped around a tree. This was one of the better items left in working order. However, he had probably banged the scope mount loose. The rest, up until I got it was just a series of munge-ups by bad gunsmiths.

I enjoyed going back through this thread. Get that old beast bedded properly, with the spacer, some nice epoxy bedding, and start dropping them.

One thing I'd think about is the HDY 150 SP with cannelure. I shoot those over Varget or 4895 (depending on what I have "too much" of) in a Yugo P44 and get 1 and 1/4 groups for 5 at 100 with a cheap "scout" scope and a five-dollar Paragon take off Nazi barrel. I only have shot one coyote with it, but it was DRT with plenty of zap left over.

I'm a "Round-Up" fan myself! 'Hank, I can't feel my roots"!

You mean for the MFH or my ought-Sixes? I don't see one listed in 32 Cal.

Actually, I'm way ahead of you if you mean for the '06.. My new Hornady LNL AP press came with a free 500 bullet offer. I sent in the coupon and look what I got:

OK. Got you. However, I don't think those will work. The MFH has a .32 cal bore.

My mistake. For some reason I was thinking your rifle had been re-barreled in .303 British. Here’s the correct link:

8mm 150 IL

Those look good. I may try those next.

Yep, Jordan, them are those.

They have shot well for me. I got a bunch of blems years ago for eight cents. Have no clue what the blemishes were, there was a little "spotting" so I chucked them in acetone then let them dry.
I would like to try the 125s but the throat on my beast is kind of far away.

I have a Mauser 8X57 mm sporter. It was a rather expensive conversion from military to sporter. The barrel was tuned to a new profile (still retaining the Nazi stampings), the bolt handle replaced with a nice turn-downed handle, all the metal beautifully polished and blued and, a highly figured stock fitted. Unless the guy was a gunsmith,it was a rather expensive conversion. BUT, it only shoots 3-4" groups.

I have only owned one 8x57..."supposedly" it was a battlefield pick up in Russia, which they, in turn cleaned it up and sold them. Mine was a K98 and it had Nazi markings. I had a taller front sight put on and I only shot Turkish surplus ammo. Some said it was machinegun ammo, I don't know but it was hot stuff! My point is that it was ( still is, I gave it to a young man in my church) a great shooter! I won't say how good as I don't want to be thought of as a liar...but it was/is, with that ammo, at "least" a 1 MOA rifle.
I say that as I believe any 8x57 is worthy of tricking out, investigating, trial and error, doing everything one can to get them to shoot acceptably. To "me", I'd want at least a 2 inch/100yd setup. I can't accept bigger than that "for myself". I have "put in my time" with a rifle like that ( my dad's old Mod 742) when I was a young man. We shot it iron sights and it would do about 5-6 inches with 150gr Corlokt ammo. It didn't much matter as I never killed game over 50-60 yds with the thing! ha I later got some of the new Federal "Red Box" factory loads that used the Sierra 165 SBT. It then shot a nice, rounded 4" group. Still didn't matter, I hunted int the heavy woods with it, everything I shot with that particular load was under 40 yds! ha. So, I'm glad some guys are still messing with the older Mausers, but they can be shooters. It is certainly a powerful round. A friend of mine shot his cow elk with his old Persian Carbine 8x57 and 200 Nosler. His little rifle is a real shooter too.
For a safety Shaman, I think you could find a Mod 70 type pretty reasonable. someone put a Wisner Mod 70 type on my 7x57 Classic. It needed a bit of work to smooth it out, but it is fine now. I never had an issue with the Remington thumb safety, I really like them in fact. Good luck to you Pard.

Look at the Dayton Traister Safety Kit over on Brownells Mr Shaman...$22+ I think it is only two position but it is a wing safety.

Deal sweetener? Maybe you should havve asked for some sweet-n-low.

I have an update for y'all on the Mauser From Hell.

I just came in from the range (well, it's the front porch), and the infamous Mauser From Hell just shot a 3-shot group with all 3 rounds touching. It was hot. I wasn't letting the barrel cool, and the 3 were perfectly stringed vertically. This makes it close to one of the best groups I've ever shot.

What made the difference? Back over the winter, I took a dowel and some 85 grit sandpaper and removed the old bedding from the forearm up to about 3 inches in front of the receiver. This was the first time I've had it out.

I also took the time before shooting to go out and mash down all the tall grass at the edge of the yard. Last year, if you remember that was one of the suspected causes of the flyers.

Thanks all for your help.

I've got 5 rounds left for the morning. I intend to see what it does on a cold barrel, in between shots with the 25-06 that I've got out to dial in.

I just wanted to give you one last update on The Mauser From Hell. I kept it out in the blind all week, determined to use it on a deer.

On Saturday, the MFH finally got successfully blooded. At just over an hour after sun-up, a well-fed 6-point whitetail buck came out of the bushes into the pasture we call "The Garden of Stone." He was approximately 140 yards from my blind. I think he saw me put down my coffee because he stopped and looked my way.

I still have work to do on the safety, and I did not want to spend more money on this project without proving it, so I had been keeping the chamber cold. I jacked a round into the chamber, 175 grain Speer RN's over H4895. As I nestled the forearm into the bag, he turned broadside.

The new Timney trigger surprised me. I may want to set it a bit higher to compensate for cold fingers. It broke perfectly as I settled on a high shoulder shot. The buck disappeared. For a moment I was sure he had run back into the bushes and was now thundering down the ravine on Left Leg Creek, but before I could cycle another round, I saw hooves come up through the tall grass.

I had dropped him on the spot. The shot had missed the heart but taken out both lungs.




Pics and more details are here:

Finally! Shaman Scores a Buck

Now *that's* a happy ending!

Hot damn, congrats shaman. My thumper just scored it's first victim as well.

Everybody thinks there's nothing better than building your own custom Mauser. On the way home, I started thinking about all I'd done to get to Saturday Morning:


Changed out the scope to a Bushnell Trophy 4-12X
Changed out the trigger to a Timney
Used Electrolysis to remove excessive copper from bore
Dyna-Tec Bore Coat
Attempted to install a Leupold STD mount to replace the busted one
Sent rifle off to gunsmith to have STD mount mounted and epoxy bedded.
Removed bedding from forearm-- free-floated barrel
3 bullets and two powders used in load development

. . . and all this for a rifle that weighs a pound more than my Ruger Hawkeye in 30-06.


The last remaining job is to install a safety that works properly with the scope in place.

Mike the bullets and see if they measure .322 .......