My question still stands, for 2017, "Has Leupold fixed tracking & zero retention?"
I have a feeling that the answer is "No", but would like to hear someone give better news, based on actual experience given the above.
You sound like the customer services standard reply of the times. " Yes, I understand you are unhappy. And yes, you have every right to feel as you do."
You just showed your hand with the above. You know what your answer was from the beginning, which is proven by your various posts on the thread. You knew where you wanted it to go from the beginning. Classic bait and switch. And if nothing else, I'll give you credit for being good at it.
battue,
No offense intended, but your posts are starting to come across like something from a feverish zealot who staunchly defends his emotional attachment, despite an abundance of evidence from multiple sources to the contrary. Nobody is saying you shouldn't use Leupold scopes. If you've had good experiences with them, then maybe your luck will continue. But I've personally seen multiple Leupold scopes fail by ceasing to hold zero, on rifles that were used as close-range hunting rifles, and said scopes were not dialled after being zeroed. One example off the top of my head was a Vari-XII 2-7x that was mounted on my Win 88 in .308. The rifle always shot very well, though it never did see a high volume of shooting, and then suddenly groups got progressively larger and larger. I personally delivered the scope to the Canadian Leupold warranty depot, and I watched the technician put the scope on the collimitor. Sure enough, the reticle bounced around a 3-4 MOA circle each time it was jolted, and the reticle also moved as magnification was turned up and down. If the failure was a singularity, I'd chalk it up to an anomoly- but that wasn't the only one. As a result of this and similar experiences, my confidence in the ability of most Leupold scopes to dial correctly and hold zero has been shaken. I believe that there are still some models that hold zero better than others, and that Win 88 currently wears an M8 4x, which I expect to hold zero reasonably well, given that the turrets don't get touched once zeroed.
4th_point simply provided some background and historical evidence from sources that use a lot of scopes, more than the rest of us, in order to introduce statistically-relevant and significant data, showing that there has been a problem in the past, and he asked for any current, credible data that may indicate whether the problem persists, or has been adequately addressed. I see no bait and switch. That was the point of the thread from the beginning.
No offense intended, but your posts are starting to come across like something from a feverish zealot who staunchly defends his emotional attachment, despite an abundance of evidence from multiple sources to the contrary..
I was sold on Leupold, but that has been shaken by my VX2 having issues. Anytime a piece of equipment fails under routine operation it reduces my confidence. The brand is irrelevant. Yes they fixed it and it seems to shoot better now, but it leaves a nagging feeling. Given the evidence presented, it's fair to consider that perhaps there is an issue to some degree or another.
Has to be quick and on the cphone so bear with me. No offense taken-ah, the Savage and E dig smarted a little😳-but it goes with the territory. No sense in restating my comments on L's adequacy for the everyday hunter. It's there.
Mine are essentially 2x3x, 4x6x, a 12x, 2x1.5-,and a 2.5-8. There are a couple more that slip my mind right now. One 6x42 has an M1and has been shot enough on a Nula the throat is getting alligatored up bad.
My personal fire mantra is: if the good guys are on your azz, then step back and reevaluate. However, if I decide to move on up, it will be NF. I don't need turret issues or the fisheye.
LOL, players vs fans, hey? SWFA SS scopes are a very application-specific product. They are not designed for spitting-distance woods hunting. They are not designed for 1000 yard Benchrest competition. There's a suspicious absence of NF optics on IPSC guns, as well. I guess those guys didn't get the message about NF??
If we want to discuss players vs fans, there are a bunch of mil guys who trust their lives to their equipment, that prefer SS scopes over Leup, when given the choice...
Finally and I thank you, because most of the SWFA support team here are hunters. Hunters who shoot the majority of their game inside 200. The overwhelming majority are not 1000 yard BR shooteres or those who go into combat with their weapon. Yet some are trying to make the majority feel their Leupold is inadequate for 90+ percent of actual hunting opportunities. And I've been calling BS on that from post number 1.
I can't remember the last big game critter I killed inside 200 with a rifle. So no, Leupolds don't work for me.
Seriously? Out of the 300 or so big game animals I've killed, the vast majority have been 200yds or less. I like 'em up close and personal.......
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Funny reading this post and coincidental also, it only confirms what I have determined in my own use over many years and with two new Leupolds over the last two years, and my last site-in session. I had never heard of any problems with Leupolds they have always been the gold standard for hunters where I live. I don't shoot that much, but more than the average Joe. All my Leupolds are on short range hunting rifles, mzs, slug guns, or pistols. Most are quite hard recoilng weapons. My old 2x pistol scope and 4x fixed are rock steady both well over 20-years old. I have seen a steady delcline in there ability to hold zero over the last 20-years. The newer versions ,well I have always known about the leupold shuffle, but never heard anyone call it that until I came here. It seems to have gotten worse the last few years to the point where I finally threw in the towel. I have two fixed 6x s . Both have a zero that floats around like Mohamid Ali. The tracking is ridiculus as sometimes it moves, sometimes it does not, and sometimes the dam thing moves after a nice five shot group. This is on two different rifles. You go home, come back the next week,and whoa, it moved again (same, load, same gun, same sand bags, yada yada). You always wonder about bedding, loads, mounts, etc., finally you elimiate all the variables and you realize that the scope is just $#@!. I don't even want to send them back because I know after all the effort to remount them, there is a great probability they will do the same thing. Answer to question: no -hell no they have not fixed it. I was already moving on to a new brand when I read this thread, and laughed out lould when I first saw it and started reading it. Probably buy a SWFA and try that. Some of my old SWIFT, Bushnell and Tasco scopes I had when I first started shooting years ago, held zero and tracked better than the leupold junk being dumped on the consumer now. Most of the hunters I know or see at the range wouldn't even know if there scope holds zero or tracks correctly and Leupold exploits this situation to the max. The average hunter I know shoots five shots before deer season, If they hit inside a paper plate at 100 yards, amen. they are ready for the big boy. Therefore, these guys would obviously think someone like me is nuts saying there Vari x III is junk. As someone else said, they don't even know what they don't know. Screw Leupold.
LOL, players vs fans, hey? SWFA SS scopes are a very application-specific product. They are not designed for spitting-distance woods hunting. They are not designed for 1000 yard Benchrest competition. There's a suspicious absence of NF optics on IPSC guns, as well. I guess those guys didn't get the message about NF??
If we want to discuss players vs fans, there are a bunch of mil guys who trust their lives to their equipment, that prefer SS scopes over Leup, when given the choice...
Finally and I thank you, because most of the SWFA support team here are hunters. Hunters who shoot the majority of their game inside 200. The overwhelming majority are not 1000 yard BR shooteres or those who go into combat with their weapon. Yet some are trying to make the majority feel their Leupold is inadequate for 90+ percent of actual hunting opportunities. And I've been calling BS on that from post number 1.
I can't remember the last big game critter I killed inside 200 with a rifle. So no, Leupolds don't work for me.
Seriously? Out of the 300 or so big game animals I've killed, the vast majority have been 200yds or less. I like 'em up close and personal.......
You just showed your hand with the above. You know what your answer was from the beginning, which is proven by your various posts on the thread. You knew where you wanted it to go from the beginning. Classic bait and switch. And if nothing else, I'll give you credit for being good at it.
There's no hand to show. Your victim mentality, where you think you are being bullied in this thread, and made to feel inadequate for using Leupold scopes, are your delusions. Same with your conspiracy theory, that this is a bait and switch and that I started an SWFA thread, that backfired on me.
Or that there are SWFA sponsored posters lurking in these threads!
You've shown your character, by attacking someone for the tag draw process in his state, AZ. Bragged about your 300 yard groups, while a guy next to you was fiddling with a mil/mil scope. What did those posts have to with the price of eggs in China?
When you fell 20' from the tree, did you land on your head by any chance? Is there a Mrs. Battue, who we can have check on you?
These are new scope lines from Leupo. The VX-5 has a rev limiter and zero stop, meant for dialing elevation. New models are a good opportunity to address issues.
Is it ok to ask whether zero retention and tracking have been improved? Or does it mean I'm sponsored by SWFA?
You are the delusional individual. Victim? Don't give yourself the credit. Believe it. Bullied? By whom, you? You're hilarious, a joke and delusional. What a combination?
You have a distorted definition-again, hey-if you think the fact that I am of the opinion Arizona's draw system sucks is an attack. Get a grip on reality. You really have a problem with words, genius.
I asked the question about SWFA sponsored shooters because it is common in shotgun competition, combined with the fact Leupold does or used to sponsor shooters. I wanted an answer and got one. Thus the question, genius.
And yes, I took a head thump in the crash. Thing is I obviously still have more left than you. "We" as in you check on me? Funny, there is nothing you have I need. Believe it. You are one messed up piece of work. Now, continue playing your little game. It makes you feel important, makes you feel like you are somebody, makes you feel smart? You know better and inside you know what you are. You can't even trust yourself.
And let me add, if SWFA did sponser shooters, it most certainly wouldn't be you. Do you think SWFA is watching and perhaps just maybe, they would think this is the one we want to promote us and are products. Oh ya, your special.
You are the delusional individual. Victim? Don't give yourself the credit. Believe it. Bullied? By whom, you? You're hilarious, a joke and delusional. What a combination?
You have a distorted definition-again, hey-if you think the fact that I am of the opinion Arizona's draw system sucks is an attack. Get a grip on reality. You really have a problem with words, genius.
I asked the question about SWFA sponsored shooters because it is common in shotgun competition, combined with the fact Leupold does or used to sponsor shooters. I wanted an answer and got one. Thus the question, genius.
And yes, I took a head thump in the crash. Thing is I obviously still have more left than you. "We" as in you check on me? Funny, there is nothing you have I need. Believe it. You are one messed up piece of work. Now, continue playing your little game. It makes you feel important, makes you feel like you are somebody, makes you feel smart? You know better and inside you know what you are. You can't even trust yourself.
And let me add, if SWFA did sponser shooters, it most certainly wouldn't be you.
There you go. Let it out. It's that emotional side that we love. It makes you so good at being the Robin Hood. You know, for all those Leupold owners that you think you're defending.
There you go with that "we" again. You do have a problem with words, don't you? OK, how many times do I have to repeat it genius? One more and real slow....There is nothing I need from you. Write it down and repeat it over and over until it sinks in. There is no "we" when it comes to you. I know, I know, I know. The way you want to follow me around it will be difficult for you to grasp it, but that's the fact.
Listen, just to show you I don't hold a grudge. Since you are an Oregon boy, why don't you PM Jeff and get some of his recreational weed? Chill out, reeeeelaaax, get in you groove-I'm not sure if that is the right words, because you have a funny groove-go with the flow, tune in, tune out, get a little hop in you step. Now watch yourself, that chit can mess with your balance. Jeff says that chit does wonders when he gets all uptight and obsessed with crazy chit. Try it. Good chance you will still be screwed up. But it will be a happy screwed up. Win/lose beats lose/lose.
Remember, Jeff is a Nightforce guy. I'm sure he will help a fellow. They can get stoned together and get down on zero stop, 1/10th, FFP, SFP, Christmas tree reticles, SV, F1. Damn they may even start growing and hunting together. Start a business, make big money, hunt the world together.
You do realize this place does have a way of bringing people together? One of the reasons I enjoy it so much.
Remember, Jeff is a Nightforce guy. I'm sure he will help a fellow. They can get stoned together and get down on zero stop, 1/10th, FFP, SFP, Christmas tree reticles, SV, F1. Damn they may even start growing and hunting together. Start a business, make big money, hunt the world together.
You do realize this place does have a way of bringing people together? One of the reasons I enjoy it so much.
Living the dream I'm going to try out a Nightforce someday, I have all high end Leupolds on my rifles and never a problem(knock on wood). Reticle choices are important for hunting, I'm not a Seal Team 6 member.
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Bwana_1
Wait ! ..... JeffO is giving out free weed ?
I'd rather he give out weed than his "experience."
He's dumber than you are.
Dave
Stick to shotguns and beer d-bag, your vacation made you more biitchy than usual...GFY
I checked this thread to see if there was anything new and worthwhile only to find some tightly wound folks engaged in trading various caustic remarks. It seems wrong and quite inconsiderate of others to seek out confrontations and never pass up opportunities to be offended. I didn't read all these acerbic posts and will assume others had the maturity to do the same.
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