Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting Let's talk expansion: kid's deer load 9.3x62

I told my ten year old if he saved up $850 I'd sell him a stainless M70 9.3x62 with McMillan stock, iron sights, and Leupold 2x7. I figured this would take him a few years to accomplish but then he became very motivated, found a couple jobs, and raised the money over the summer. He wants to hunt deer with his 9.3 this year.

I've got an NOE mold and we've already shot plenty of alox lubed 286gr cast grouse loads at 1330fps in my 9.3x62. With their minimal recoil he shoots them well. Now I've cast up some HP versions of the same bullet. I'm thinking the best compromise between power and recoil is somewhere around 1350-1500fps depending on what the gun likes. Does anyone know what to expect as far as wheel weight lead expansion at these velocities with air cooled bullets?

For woods ranges and the weight specified, your velocity range should work just fine with ww alloy on deer.
The hollow point version will definitely make it expand the nose at 1200-1300 fps impact velocity, which ought to be easily within 150 yds.. There will be enough weight and shank left for plenty of penetration too, even if it hit at your top end 1,500 fps..

Thanks for the reply HawkI. While by no means a flat shooter this bullet won't do a deer any good at the 25-100 yard distances we kill them at around here. I originally thought 1800 fps would be a good velocity to shoot for but the recoil calculators predict '06 recoil levels. Up to 1500 is just slightly more than his 6.8 SPC.

I've been using and experimenting with clip-on WW alloy for expanding bullets for the past ~15 years; it can work really well with the right hollow point or flat nose matched to the impact velocity.

First and foremost, what does this hollow point look like? Width, depth, and shape are all important. Could you post a picture of the bullet and the pin? We can tell you a lot more from there.

In my experience, at 1350-1500 fps you want a fairly shallow hollow point. Between ~1500-1800 fps a moderate to large flat point is all you need for expansion, and above 1800 to about 2400 fps you want a fairly small flat point.

I'm not able to post pics yet since photo bucket bombed. The HP is pretty deep, 5/16ths and tapered with an opening of 5/32nds at the nose.

If'n you're going to let the lad plink with low velocities give consideration to a softer alloy. Rough take is 3:1 - 4:1 mix of lead and clip on wheel weights. You'll have something in the BHN 9-10 range and with the hollow point it will open in the velocity range you're looking at.

Thanks for the tip. If I can get away with straight WW I'd like to keep things simple. I should've mentioned what I've been doing first. I've got a load for my 9.3 which shoots bug holes at fifty yards. It uses the FP version of this bullet, gas checked, quenched, lubed with alox, at 1335fps. He's shot a bunch of those already with great results.

Air cooled ww's hp bullets should start expanding at ~1000 fps. You might want to add a couple percent tin to increase the maleability of the alloy so that the hp doesn't come apart at higher speeds.

L to R .475" bullets 275 gr swc, 400 gr hp shot into glacial silt @ 1200 fps, 400 gr hp all cast from air cooled clip on ww's.



Wet glacial silt is a tough medium, but there's plenty of it and the price is right I've been meaning to do an exhaustive comparison of various cast bullet designs and impact velocities into glacial silt, one of these days. Like any medium, it gives you a relative comparison of how bullets perform.

That's a pretty generous hollow point, and more than you really need for WW expansion at your velocity range. (I'm basing that on NOE's listed bullet dimensions too, not just the hollow point; they must be considered together.) Mixing with pure lead will be way way too soft, not desirable at all. You'll be just fine sticking with WW alloy.

Even at only 1300 fps, I think you'll find the nose expands to the point of fragmenting with a hollow point of that size. I'd be willing to bet that will expand with WW alloy down to ~1000 fps or even lower, based on my developments with similar bullets. Fragmenting of the nose isn't necessarily bad though as long as a decent part of the shank remains intact for penetration; that combination in a reduced velocity load can be a very effective deer killer in my experience.

If you got the cup point pins that NOE offers with that mold, I'd consider trying those for your 1350-1500 fps velocity window with that alloy.

Thanks fellas, this is all very encouraging. I don't mind the idea of the bullet blowing off it's front portion (Nosler style) as there is about two-thirds of the bullet left to penetrate. It would be nice if the cup point would accomplish the same thing since it's a bit of a hassle casting HPs with the big long pins required. I'll have to cast some and compare the two in some sort or medium. Seems like a good cabin fever project. In the meantime I think we're gonna test some ammo and go kill deer.

Your inclinations are correct.

While you might lose the nose, using a pretty high s.d. bullet to begin with leaves more than enough shank for penetration, even at your top posted speed. Whats also not taken into consideration is that ww alloy wears down and powders pretty consistently, even at high impact speeds. What is lost (if you can even recover whats left of it) is surely spent in the demise of the animal. Not to mention the stress on the bullet face is a "cushion" for whats behind it, again helping maintain a bit of penetration.

We've become so used to photogenic bullets and fear failure when its really unwarranted.

No slam against NOE, but I've encountered this before with some of their other hollow point molds, as well as other makers too. The problem comes from a hollow point pin that's too long for it's diameter; i.e. the pin's taper is too acute, causing the bullet to stick as it cools so it won't drop off the pin. I've solved it by removing some of the pin tip and recutting it at a larger angle. This lets bullets drop off the pins easily for faster casting. I normally use a lathe these days, but you can do it yourself with a cordless drill and belt grinder if you are handy with tools.

That sounds like a good idea. Do you think cutting a bit off the tip so as to make the HP have a larger, shallower flat bottom as opposed to a deeper taper would help. This mold (my first) has been a bit frustrating. I had to send it back once already because the blocks started mating up improperly, causing bad bullets with lots of flashing.

No, a flat bottom doesn't do anything to help bullets drop off the pins. You need the taper to be a larger angle. Also just polishing them can help quite a bit; an easy way to do that is to spin the pin in a cordless drill, with the taper held against some fine sandpaper. Do it dry, not wet, so the abrasive breaks down and polishes the tip.

Here's an example of an NOE RG4 pin I remade for the 30-247 FN bullet. This one is for subsonic expansion with WW alloy; you need a much smaller hollow point (or none at all) for the 1350-1500 fps velocity range you're targeting. The taper of your pins needs to be like this or larger though; a similar major diameter with about half the tip length (meaning a larger angle) would be a good start.

Not sure you'd really need the hp with that big a bullet, depending on the diameter of the meplat. A big flat point has a way of doing the job, expansion or no. I killed a doe last year with an Accurate 38-250B bullet out of my 38-55 at 1400 fps. Bullet was at around 9 Bhn, Powder Coated, and not recovered. Doe went less than 20 yards, stumbling the whole way due to a smashed near side shoulder. This weekend is our early antlerless season and the 38-55 will be going out again, this time with the same bullet at 14Bhn(what I have sized and ready to go) @1600fps. This is a load I'd like to slip into a bull elk sometime, I have no doubts it'll penetrate full length of a whitetail.

put them in the vitals with what you have and you'll take home venison.

Hey DJ. Been awhile. I'll toss you an email later and catch up.

I'll tender my opinion on the original post FWIW. You're talking about pushing a WW alloy bullet at roughly upper end .357 magnum velocities. I would posit those results have been fairly well established as to what will happen. I'll also posit that in the event you're using a gaping HP and the front half of the bullet shears off, you're still going to have 150 grains of a wadcutter punching through the deer (after having done considerable damage).

I don't think it's going to make much difference to your dead deer. They're not particularly hard to kill.

Have the same mold but just a solid point that I use in my 9.3x62. My i cast them with Lyman#2 and load over 45grof Varget and have killed about 8-10 white tails with it. Most have been a rib shot and 30 -60yard death charge. One I hit the joint of shoulder on both sides and did a 10'slide. Wish your son well and tell him to have fun!

Hey Dean, been extra busy, you know how it is.

Fatnhappy has it right on for what will happen.

Go get some venison.