Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Winchester 70 post 64 (1994) SA firing pin issue

Hello all

First off, I apologize for this lengthy post but I figure with all of my comments in here it may help someone else who is searching the internet for any one of the key words or phrases they may be searching for.

Hi, I have a few model 70's. I am one of the few in my circle that really like Winchesters. My first bolt action was and is a Model 70 300 win mag. 1980 XTR. I just liked the way it looked and felt, especially the bolt knob, lift and cycling as compared to the remington 700. I suppose Jack O'connor didn't sway my decision either.

Well, anyway in 1994 I was looking for a varmint rifle and there were great reviews on the Winchester 70 HBV in .220 Swift and I bought that. It is an absolute Tackdriver. After 23 years and probably over 1500 rounds it is still a tackdriver. This has been my PET gun and go to gun forever. I have won a lot of shooting competitions (informal club shoots) and killed quite a few coyotes with this and prairie dogs. My longest confirmed prairie dog kill is 635 yds with this gun, with many over 500 yards.

Jump to my reason for this post: I had put a Timney Trigger in that gun back in 1994 and for all these years it has worked flawleessly. Last year I started having a problem, I sat at a Bench (fortunately, purposely and thoughtfully my muzzle was pointed down range) and when I closed the bolt my firing pin dropped and fired the round. I was stunned. I started experimenting and that started happening nearly everytime I closed the bolt (no longer with live rounds!). So, I thought my trigger was worn and that the sear was slipping. I tried adjusting the Timney trigger but had to raise the weight so much that I knew this was not the answer (or the problem). I noticed that my cocking piece on the firing pin was worn, like pretty gouged out. Long story short (too late for that), I contacted Timney and they didnt want to take a chance and sent me a brand new trigger at no charge. I installed that but it was not exactly drop in. The instructions say "on rare occasions the trigger may require fitting". My middle name is "Rare occasions". So, I had a local "gunsmith" (self-taught, but he is really a hack. He can do certain things, but he has no finnesse, doesn't plan or research). So, I had this local "gunsmith" try to help me and he filed down the necessary material to get the firing pin and safety to work, but the angle was hand cut and off and he did not burnish the surface. This seemed to work, for a minute, but one of the other problems is that the safety was not moving the firing pin back off the trigger sear (if you know how a 70 safety works), so with the safety "on" if I pulled the trigger it dropped the trigger sear so when I pushed the safety off the firing pin would drop. UGH!! I spoke with another gunsmith and we figured the firing pin may be worn (that cocking piece that rides over the top of the trigger sear). So, I tried to get a new firing pin. This short action pushfeed firing pin must be one of the most difficult gun parts in the history of guns to get. NOBODY has one. Winchester has changed hands and production so many times that they won't even talk to you about gunsmithing or how the parts work. They have Midwest Gunworks handle all of their old parts (except for mine of course). This is the first time I have really had a problem with my model 70's and this is a BIG ONE. Certainly has me re-thinking Winchester, though I still think their initial quality is better than Remington, but this lack of parts is a real game changer for me. In a big game rifle you'll probably never wear the gun out but with a Varmint rifle....I'm probably shooting 300-400 rounds a year now. In all fairness, the new Winchesters should have all of their parts available for many years if they plan better. Who knows where anybody will be in 20-40 or more years? Especially after the recent shooting in Vegas.

Back to my story.. I searched the MGW (Midwest gun works) website for my firing pin and could not find exactly what I thought I needed. There are 3 parts schematics for Pre 64 controlled round feed, Post 64 Push feed and post 64 Controlled round/pushfeed type models and the post 64s have Long and short actions.. BTW, I tried Numrich arms and at least 6 or 7 other obsolete and hard to find parts places, AND e-bay, gunbroker, gunsamerica, armslist, etc. trying to find this firing pin. So, I called MGW to have THEM pick my part using my serial #. The sales woman on the other end said, "this is the part for your gun", so I said ok. Friggin $89 plus shipping. $95 later, I got the firing pin. It looked like the right length, spacings etc. But I could not see my old firing pin with the spring surrounding the whole shaft. I decided to bring it to my new gunsmith. Not an expert on Winchesters, but could figure out anything. So he went to swap the firing pin and of course there was an issue.

The new firing pin did not have the long recess to accept the "firing pin stop screw". This firing pin was for a newer model. The schematic show the firing pin with the recess for the stop screw but the part I received did not have the recess. Even THEIR own parts do not coincide with the schematics they are referencing!!!.

My gunsmith and I decided to install the firing pin because I needed to get my gun together and could not get the exact same part and it was nowhere in the forseeable future. The "firing pin stop screw" has a shoulder that needs to be fully seated into the hole because this length of the bolt sleeve has to go into the rear of the receiver so the screw has to be flush with the sleeve. But, the nipple on the end of the screw contacts the firing pin shaft so the screw CANNOT go fully flush into the hole. I had to cut off the nipple so that I could insert the screw all the way.

I went to the range and everything works, flawlessly. In fact, my old firing pin was worn at the shoulder of the safety recess and the side of the firing pin tip was worn at one side where it passes through the firing pin hole in the bolt face. I noticed that my firing pin strikes were nearly dead center npow where they were a little off center from the worn firing pin. I guess I just got used to the slow change over time. Still, if I can find another firing pin I'd swap it out because I want it the way it should be.

I guess my Question here is: I don't see the purpose of the firing pin stop. It seems to be there as an additional safety to hold things together or maybe it prevents the firing pin from moving forward if the firing pin is struck externally from the rear? That looks like a 100% IMPOSSIBILITY. The other thing is after the firing pin spring is removed then the firing pin stop has to be removed to remove the firing pin from the shroud. This seems like a very elaborate feature to keep a firing pin from falling out during disassembly. So, does anyone know what that firing pin stop screw is for? It seems to have been eliminated in newer models! Anyway, my world is good again, so far.

Thank you for listening.

Mike C.

Welcome...with all the old timers here ...you're likely to find some help
with your problem.
I had a longer reply (rant) just a minute ago...but my phone decided to
shut off ...and I lost that reply.
Good Luck!

That stop screw is really not needed. Many M70s don't have that feature - yet, many do... Don't worry about it.. Ignore the dang thing..

Welcome, BTW..

The stop screw originated on late production Model 54's and was continued on the original Model 70. It was dropped on the post 64 Model 70. Apparently, it was reinstated at some point, maybe when the original controlled round feed version was brought back. The purpose of the screw was to prevent the firing pin blowing out of the bolt to the rear in the event that the firing pin sleeve fails on a overpressure case head failure. Normally the firing pin would be stopped by the spring going solid. The screw is back-up in case the sleeve fails mechanically. This info came from Otteson's first book on bolt actions.

RAN

FWIW, if the spring 'going solid' doesn't stop an 'overpressure' round, that screw isn't gonna slow it down either.. I understand the origination and theory, but it's just that - theory.. The surface area of that pin via the hole in the bolt face is so minimal, that the bolt itself will fail long before that firing pin will blow out..

JMHO..

Should have gone Ruger...

I've got a push-feed Winchester "Stealth" Model 70. The firing pin tip wasn't supported in the bolt head when the firing pin was in the cocked position so the tip wasn't aligned with the firing pin hole of the bolt head. When the trigger was pulled the pin would slam into the hole offset causing it to scrape the tip as it aligned itself to the hole. Some people feel this affects the consistency of the pin strike. Being anal, I bored out the bolt head and installed a longer bushing that supported the firing pin tip when the pin was in the cocked position. The pin tip had to be modified by pushing the shoulder back aprox 1/8".

I believe Tubb still makes a Speed Lock firing pin for the SA 70 push feed. Not sure if it has the notch for the screw, It's a little cheaper than what you paid for your replacement pin.