Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Rural Living ruarl cell-smart phone

I am spending more time since I retired out at our camp/farm it is down in a river valley in SW Arkansas and cell coverage is weak, I am about 3 miles from the two nearest towers with 800-900' ridges in between, my place is about 500' elevation. I need something with better/stronger reception capabilities, than my 8yo Samsung Rugby II. Anybody know of a phone that is known to be better than the rest for reception.The locals use variety of phones and Verizon as carrier. They all have issues with receptions but nothing like I do with the RugbyII and ATT as carrier.

Get more power.

Cell Phone Booster

I have the same problem,everyone tells me I need to throw my 3g out and step up the 4g at least.Certainly look at the phone booster. A buddy and I were up elk hunting.He could sit in his camper and get cell service with his newer phone, I couldn't get even one bar.We both have Tracfone

This is the second time I have heard the 4g phones have better range.

A 4g phone will only work if there is a 4g tower in the area. If not your fancy phone is worthless.

A 3g phone will however work on a 4g tower.

I was told this by a guy who works for a local cell company.

One of my buddies recently bought a new 4g phone and it will not work out in the country. My 10 year old phone gets a signal and he is standing 5' away with no service. He now has two phones. A 3g and the new 4g.

Ironbender, what I saw looks great for use at the house but, I am out and about around the place.

Sam what phone and carrier do you have/use?

First, Verizon is the only cell system that works in rural areas. AT&T, T-Mobile, and any other GSM based 3G/4G system concentrate on the cities and interstates.

Wilson makes the very best "amplifiers" or repeaters on the market. You can get them for vehicles, not just for buildings.

No cellphone can have more than 300mW (just under 1/3Watt) output by federal law, so it's all about antennas. Android phones by major manufacturers seem to have better internal antennas than the iPhones.

I don't know how big of a place you have, but if you're using a utility vehicle or tractor, then a Wilson rig will work, but you have to be close to the rig when you talk.

Text messages will get out in places that voice will not due to the frequencies they operate at and the fact that they are a "burst" of info rather than a stream.

Oh, and those little "bars" that show cell signal strength? They only pertain to the voice side of the device and even then they are routinely manipulated by the carriers to indicate a larger service area than is actually there.

Ed

Arky, I have a Casio G'zone Boulder. It has been an awesome phone. Verizon.

Not true.Tracfone willl use any tower that they can reach as they lease them some how. Me and my hunting partner have only used Tracfone for 5+ years. .I had little flip phone back in 2009 .I was hunting in extreme NW CO and I could pick up a tower 60 miles away and call home. No w he has better luck than me getting cell service with his LG phone, where as I have a Samsung, but also has Tracfone service.Tracfone is $20/90 days, 60 minutes,but most newer phones give you double or triple minutes.If you buy a years worth, you get 3000+ or more minutes. Not for some one who has to have a cell phone stuck to their head 50% of the time though.

I only worry about the voice side of the signal strength,but at times text will go thru when voice won't as so stated. As mentioned previously my buddies 4G would work out in the rural areas, 30+ miles from the nearest tower in Craig, CO. Mine wouldn't. I was out in eastern CO this past Friday.Again my phone would l notwork,but another guy that was driving had no problem.We were 40 miles from the nearest tower. It might very well be caused by all the apps running on these using power.I don't know about that though.

Verizon has a 4g flip phone, if that is of any interest. I can't say how well it works.

Sam. Are you both on the same network? Makes a difference here.

Arky
They make something similar for a vehicle. Oil companies use them here. Have to be within 10’ or so of the booster.

Thanks to all, looks like Verizon is the key in getting better service. Will look into that and explore the Tracphone route also.

Thanks for the input. I am headed out to the place in the am for Muzzle Loader season will check back next week.

Thanks again.

Well, good luck!

I miss those old bag phones. 3 watts and vehicle mounted antenna...

You could get some distance with those!

The reason your 2009 phone worked was because it was a pure GSM (Gen1/Gen2) phone that was wide-band. AT&T was the primary owner of GSM phone towers across the country and there was much less traffic in the bandwidth than there is now, allowing towers to lock onto weaker signals.
Narrow-band devices started with Gen2, both GSM and CDMA and continued through the current Gen4 and Gen4+ devices. With more phones, the tower will lock onto the stronger signal, meaning us folks out in the country have a harder time connentcing.

Tracfone can use either the GSM based LTE (AT&T) or CDMA based LTE (Verizon et al), depending on the model of the phone, thus appearing it can use any tower.
Your buddy's phone is probably CDMA based LTE or LTE+.

The apps running won't affect your signal strength unless your battery level gets too low and you don't have your cellphone's preferences set to prioritize call first, data second.

BTW, 3G is slated to be turned off by Jan 2020 and 4G gone by mid-late 2021; Both are being replaced by 5G which is a whole 'nother critter, meaning new hardware for everyone. Just like you can't run 4G on an old 2G device now, the carriers have disabled that support across most of the country, with all of it expected to be shut down by Dec of this year.


Barry,
the Wilson amplifiers act just like that old bag phone as their output is 3 watts and they use an external antenna. Use a 3/8 Wave, 3dB gain, vertical antenna with a good ground plane and make it act like a 6Watt phone! Win-win!

However...if you use that amplifier in "civilization", it will grab a cell tower and not let go (remember the part about weaker signals mentioned above?) This will drive the telephone engineers crazy as they start getting error messages about towers not "handing off" conversations.

Ed

Hey thanks for bearing with me and giving me a better understanding of this stuff. I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

So in an area where both AT&T and Verizon smartphones have difficulty finding even enough signal to send a text message, a Tracfone might be able to text? I used to could talk on my cellphones 5-7 years ago, all over my hunting property. Now, I have only a handful of spots that will even text. Phones often just say "no signal". Same for my hunting buddies. It is rather frustrating and seems to get worse every year in that area. I do like to at least be able to check in with people regarding where I'm hunting and if I was successful.

You are quite welcome! I'd rather take the time to try to explain why we all get so frustrated with technology than call people names or let a different point of view go unexplained.

The more we know, the better we can make decisions!



No, because Tracfones use either AT&T or Verizon type towers and frequencies to send voice, data, and texts.

I guess I need to be more clear about how these things work;

Voice goes over one set of frequencies, data over the same, or another frequency (depending on available frequency bandwidth) and texts (typically) go out on another completely different frequency band.

Also voice and data use a lot more bandwidth than a text. You can figure on 1MB/minute of digital info for a highest call quality call, although your phone's algorithms will compress that and filter a bunch of it out.

Data requirements, being run over different frequencies where available, will also be subject to filtering and compression.

Ever wonder why pics and internet surfing take so damned long? Probably because you'e actually downloading it through a 3G audio frequency!

Ever take a picture and try to text it and the phone says that it's formatting it into a MMS format? There's a buttload (Warning, technical terms being used! ) of info in that picture being filtered out and/or really compressed.

A text, purely text, no emojis, no pictures, no video, will be in the KB range, not the MB range of audio or data such as a picture or even a short video.
Because a text is such a small file, sent in a burst over a different freq, it can get through because it doesn't have to compete with processor time and bandwidth.
Also, if you have ever had a flashlight battery going down and you just need that last little bit, so you turn the flashlight off and turn it back on and the light is suddenly brighter, then dims? Well, that text is like that first instant that you turn the flashlight back on.

So... it's not that Tracfones get better results than an AT&T or Verizon phone, it's the physics of how a text works, regardless of the carrier.

As I mentioned earlier, some phones have better antennas, and this business is all about antennas! Remember the iPhone debacle a few years ago about dropped calls in the brand new iPhones? That was because some "Engineering Manager" signed off on an antenna design without the team doing their proper research and testing. So, Apple got a black eye, had to recall a buttload of iPhones and then had to pay another buttload of R&D money to get it right. Buttloads of "Engineering Managers" being bullied by buttloads of bean counting buttheads and not crossing the "t's" and dotting the "i's" due to R&D funding having very limited, line item funding and no mercy.

As my Dad used to say; "Do it right the first time". Or, as Pat Parelli says; :" If you take the time it takes, it takes less time."

I have talked with innumerable cellphone reps at Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile stores and none of them knew what the hell I was talking about. They are sales people with a tiny bit of tech support training, mainly based on the devices they sell, and know almost nothing about how the system actually works. It falls into the "It's not your job, don't worry about that" category of training that they receive.

I'm not a cellphone engineer, I just have over twenty years of hands-on experience having to use the technology for electronic surveillance and counter-surveillance.

Ed

P.S., almost forgot...Saddlesore, the other reason your old phone could reach is that the old broadband frequencies used back then were considerably lower in the frequency spectrum than are used now. Most are now in the microwave range where the old ones were in the high VHF range. The lower the frequency, the farther it will travel given the same power output and antenna gain.

Seems like a good saying.

My old boss when I was doing asbestos abatement used to say:
There are no shortcuts. The long way is the fastest.

You're a pretty fart smeller, Ed!

I mean smart feller!

Back in the early days of cell phones, I was flying quite a bit. One thing I learned from other pilots was that you could use you cell phone up there in the air and hit multiple towers and it sent errors to whoever got errors, and the call billing would be cancelled out.

Back then, cell service charged by the minute, and it weren't cheap!

I called everyone I knew...

Those were the chit!


I bought one as soon as they were available here. It sucked going from the bag phone to the little pocket phones because the reception absolutely sucked.

Sam, go get a Wilson amplifier and relive the glory days!

BTW, folks, those Wilson units don't have to be hard wired into a specific vehicle. Use the right connectors and a magnetic mount antenna and swap the unit to any vehicle.

Ed

APDDS, when I get a chance it look up all those big words, I'll have some questions to ask.

You know where to find me

Ed

It is nice to find some semblance of a working brain on the 'fire. Mine sure ain't workin'.

It would help if ol’ Ed would speak Engrish.

Have a Wilson Pro booster here at the house. Without it, no service inside...

I may get the truck booster too.

There is no available translation from "Engineerese" to English, much less to American.
Either you geek it or you don't.

I would make pictures to go along with the words, but I'm out of crayons and they won't let me have any more. They say I eat too many of them and draw ugly pictures on the back window of the short bus that make girls blush...



Ed

Alright, Ed, it is Ed? Our Verizon flip phones stopped working in Wabigoon, Ontario a few years back. The Tbaytel cell phone company uses 4gHSPS- (is it and?), 800Mhz, and 1900MHz. My Apple smart phone works well since I got it in NW Ontario. I should add, Bell Canada has a tower near, and it is the same story.

Can you decipher that gibberish, and give an explanation in language an old hick farmer can understand??

Wabigoon, OK, I'll take a swing at it;

HSPA- (there is also a HSPA+) is a roughly 7-8 year old software system to break down your voice, data, and text(s) into what's called "packets" so they go out in pieces that can be reassembled at the other end into what you intended them to be. 4G just means that it uses a relatively newer software & hardware to move digital signals including voice, texts, and data.

Best analogy I can come up with is a stream of machine gun bullets, each one having the "from" and "to" address on them, so that when they hit the target, you and the target know who's been shot and by whom and they don't get mixed up with my stream of bullets intended for someone else.

The reason your Verizon phones quit working is that Bell Canada, and Tbaytel, are GSM based LTE phone systems which do not work with Verizon CDMA-based LTE systems or devices.

The two frequencies you gave, 800MHz and 1900MHz, are the two that will carry all of those digital signals. Remember when I mentioned that texts usually go out over a lower frequency? That would be the 800MHz band.

Best advice I can give you is to buy a Wilson amplifier. They are made for the system you have. The bad news is, it will be obsolete in about 3-4 years.

Nothing anyone can do about that but, since they cost anywhere from $100-$600US depending on vehicle mount, residential mount, number of phones being used at once, etc, you might think about the fact that you could amortize that over the next 3-4 years and how much security and safety will be affected by having it.

If you, or anyone else reading this gets a mobile unit, I would strongly suggest registering it with your carrier, that way, when it shows up on the system, grabbing cell towers, they won't shut you down.

In researching your carriers, I discovered that they are not very friendly, nor generous about their system. Tbaytel will cut off your cell access if your "roaming" fees are more than your "local" fees for any given month unless you notify them that you will be traveling and pay extra. "Customers with roaming usage consistently greater than Tbaytel home usage will have their roaming service blocked." This is found here - LINK.

Does that help, or make your head hurt like it did mine when I was trying to learn this stuff? I didn't have the luxury of having a training class or a mentor to lean on.

I walked into the office one morning and was told by my supervisor that I was the new "tech guy" for the department. I told him "NO, Sergeant, when I stick a key into an electrical outlet it hurts. That's all I know about them electron things and all I want to know.". He informed me that it was not a question nor a request... So, out of absolute necessity, I learned and am still learning.

It also helps to have friends in high and low places. A former Verizon VP is now a senior Sprint VP and he has been extremely helpful over the years.

Ed

Wilson has a dash mount that also acts as a cellphone mount for a single phone that is $99.00.

They are also offering discounts right now and coupons for different systems.

Ed

Thank you Ed!

PS, Ed, recall the "School of Hard Knocks"? Methinks it is the only real education.

I agree! I happen to have a B.S., PhD from the University of Hard Knocks, cum louder!

To paraphrase a good friend of mine; "The problem with perfessers is that they don't teach what they have learned, only what they have read. Most of 'em haven't learned much, either."

Ed

Ed, one thing about the Black, an' Blue School, the lesson is well remembered. Barked knuckles heal slowly. I've been lucky so far on bones.

I learned (yes, learned, not read) about not hitting people in the head with my bare fists. That's what God made elbows, feet, and large blunt objects for.

Have a good evening, sir!

Ed

Sounds like a plus to me...

Yessir!


Ed

I remember getting into camp and my flip phone showed "no signal" which was differenter from "searching for signal".

Could not make a voice call, but could send a text.

tag

And now you know why...

Ed

Yup.

Ed should post himself in that mortorboard hat. Suppose he is so smart, he dreams in Latin? Like I said, sort of, it is nice to have someone around with a few brains!

Don't have one of those hats. I do have a few brains, though, very few.

I also never took Latin, so I only dream in American, German, French, and a little Spanish. I gave up on Danish because my Danish friends said I speak with a Dutch accent and just laugh at me.

If you're not learning, you're dying...

Ed

Sic semper tyrranus.

Is that Latin?

It is, and very good advice, I might add!

Now I understand why that phrase was used by Booth when he shot Lincoln.

Ed

It's getin deep! Whar's my boots?

Hip waders would be the best, all over the old 'fire.

Warnie, Heinie, and Gerhardt wanted to see how fat they could get a pig to be, so they placed a cork in his exhaust pipe. Things got busy, and they forgot about him. When they remembered him, he was high-centered on his keel, with his legs sticking out at the sides. They knew that they had to remove the cork, but none of them wanted to do it, so they trained their pet monkey to do it. Warnie wore rubber boots and got behind the house a hundred feet away. Heinie wore hip waders and got behind the garage seventy-five feet away. Gerhardt wore chest waders and stood behind the shed twenty feet away. The monkey pulled the cork out. Warnie found himself standing in residue half-way up his boots, so he waded up toward Heinie, who was found to be standing in muck up past his knees. He in turn went as far as he could, only to find Gerhardt with only his head above the flood, laughing said head off. Heinie said, "What to you have to laugh about in your condition?" Gerhardt replied, "You didn't get to see the monkey trying to put the cork back in."

Quick update, I tried a tracfone for a week, it was supposedly on Verizon, got same service, next to nothing. I am not in line of sight of any tower I think the ridges are blocking the signal.
Up date on the hunt two pesky does down, donated the deer to a family with 12 children they are happy and well fed for a couple weeks. youth hunt next weekend will let the two oldest of neighbors' kids try their luck.

There is a way to check which format your phone has.You go into "MY Device"and have to wade around thru it, but it is there. Too complicated for me to explain,buy I did it. My Samsung is the Verizon format. I learned a lot on this thread. .

Now I think it doesn't matter which one you have if you travel around much. Some areas must have the Verizon towers, some must have AT&T. Up in northern Colorado they must have more AT&T because I can't get s cell service where I hunt. Down in South central Colorado , I get it great as long as I am in LOS. LG phones might have AT&T format as my buddy gets signal up north were we hunt. You might have to figure out a way to check the phone before you buy it or buy one of each

Along major corridors like I-70 and I -25, they must have both because in never have trouble.

There are still lots of areas with no cell coverage. No cell tower in range/LOS means no service no matter which phone you try.

A word of caution on the cell boosters. Mine is a WeBoost (I think that is also Wilson).

I bought one of the higher end units.

It has made no measurable difference.

Multiple calls to customer service and a replacement unit sent out (their CS is pretty good, have to give them that).

Still no measurable distance.

During a couple of my calls to CS, they told me it was not possible to be having a voice call with them at the signal strength my phone showed. Therefore, the booster had nothing to boost.

When I pointed out that we were, in fact, having a conversation, they simply said "The unit works but needs a signal to boost".

Wish I'd saved the $500 plus and not had the aggravation.