24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
O
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
O
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
As I get older, I find I need more magnification for certain shots. Low/bad light and shadows are more of a problem. Being able to see the target is just harder. My lower power scopes are just not as easy to use now as in the past. In good light, the scope is cranked down but more often I'm having to turn them up. As I'm moving towards higher magnification scopes I wonder at what point a larger objective starts to really pull away from the usual 40mm and under what conditions it makes a difference. I don't presently own anything with a larger objective than 40mm. I've never noticed any difference between a 40mm and 50mm scope in the 3x9 magnification range. Does a difference start to show up at 12x? 15x?, higher? For my purposes, lets keep the discussion confined to scopes of good brands at less than $1000.00.

BP-B2

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,156
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,156
I have an assortment of 50 and 56mm scopes. They are great but the game changer now is lens coatings and glass quality. The Swaro Z5 ($1,200 ish) 44mms I have used the past couple of years are fantastic. They very well could be "better" in low light than my older 50 and 56mm Leupolds, Swaros, and Zeiss. My point is, look at the top brands in your price range and you might find a 40-44mm has the quality you want without having to have a larger objective.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,450
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,450
Technically without any dollar value attached, divied 50 by 3 for a useable eye diamater at full light and you get 15 x. If you go above 15 x then then to maitain the 3 mm eye number you need a larger objective. This doesn't account for glass quality or coatings etc.

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,210
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,210
I don't think you are going to see much difference between 40mm and 50mm. Pupils only dilate to about 7mm, diminishing when you get older. If you are 50+ i would think a 5mm dilation would be common. With that said a 50mm at 10x provides you with a 5mm exit pupil compared to a 4.44mm for a 40mm at 9x. As you go up in magnification you will be able to see more detail but the image will be dimmer

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,060
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,060
Quote
As I get older, I find I need more magnification for certain shots. Low/bad light and shadows are more of a problem.


Exactly what happened to me when cataracts started. In fact, I noticed it before my Dr. could find the problem. A Year later He said that cataracts had started but were not bad enough to have surgery. I found that going to a 50mm from a 40 mm helped in low light situations, more so in the afternoon with failing light compared to morning with gaining light, but some both times. After surgery, I could not tell as much difference but after 10 years I am noticing problems again. Not bad but some. miles


Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
IC B2

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
Talking only of equal glass I have discovered a 50mm seems to have a little better quality image than a 40mm. For sure the 50mm will last longer in low light when both are on the same magnification setting. Absolutely turning up the magnification allows you to go later into the dark. I proved it on my porch. Mule Deer proved it with his low light test and Jim in Idaho proved it in Africa on a hunt.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,549
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,549
Over 12x or 30 minutes after sunset with high $$$$ glass under 12x

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
C
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
C
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
A larger diameter objective lets you turn the magnification up higher and not lose the brightness of the image. A 56mm objective at 10 power gives you an exit pupil of 5.6mm which is about as much as the eye can use. A 40mm objective at 10 power gives you a 4mm exit pupil which is going to mean the image brightness is limited by the scope and not your eye, you'll have to turn the power down to get the brightness back and in doing so you lose some of the advantage the extra magnification gives you at last light. I've found the ability to use the extra magnification in low light is crucial to making a good shot. A shot that could easily be made at 4X in daylight becomes difficult as the light fades, being able to turn up the magnification and keep the image brightness is important when hunting last light. My main deer rifle has a meopta 3-12x56 with a #4 reticle, it's a great low light scope. I hunt mostly food plots in Mississippi where the good deer show themselves at the last minute if at all. I've made shots with it that wouldn't be possible with the standard 3-9x40 that lots recommend. I hunt from stands and don't care about the weight or the handling, I'm not hiking with it. It's a specialized tool that does the job it's intended to do wonderfully. Many on this board like to make fun of the "hubbles" but it mostly shows that they haven't used a really good low light scope under the situation it was built for, if they had they'd understand why they exist.

If you're really interested in a scope that'll take care of your low/bad light situations then take a look at the Schmidt & Bender 2.5-10x56 listed in the thread I linked. It's a fantastic bargain at that price, that scope is the cat's azz for what you're describing:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...le-your-choice-only-1295-00#Post12324054

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
A different, but related matter is whether or not you can see the reticle. Just came in from testing my 6x42 SS at official sunset. In my yard, in the shadows, I couldn't make out the reticle center on darkish objects. The posts don't come close enough to the center to make aiming certain, except very close up. Our legal shooting time runs a half-hour later than that. This was a worst-case test, as it's been very gray all day.

Don't know how much field time this rifle will see in the coming season, but unless I mount another scope, it won't be in the evening, exept possibly if there's snow on the ground.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,549
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,549
Super chickens are daytime dialing scopes... good for that but for the price, you are sacrificing coatings on the glass... they have always been middle of the road in that department, for the pirice point not bad, but as all thigns it is a compromise and it depends on your field situation/ needs.

IC B3

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,310
B
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,310
Crow Hunter-

You hit the nail on the head about requiring more magnification in low light than in strong daylight. When people ask about low-light performance, I see many replies recommending "a good 2x or 3x." While that may be OK for very short distances, it would not have worked for any of the moonlight shots I have made in the past couple of years. Rarely do I use anything as low as 8x, and most times, it's 10x or more.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
O
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
O
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
Thanks for the replys. I'm getting that about 10x plus the bigger objective's brightness starts to be a noticeable improvement. Related question: what magnification range works best?

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
O
Campfire Member
OP Offline
Campfire Member
O
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 499
Is there any usefulness in having a top mag range above 12x? 15x higher?i mean for picking up a target in bad lighting

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,509
N
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
N
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,509
One thing I've noticed is that the two 50mm scopes I've had seem to have a more easy to get behind view at all powers than same model in 40mm. Not sure it looked brighter but eye positioning was easier.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,047
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,047
Originally Posted by Ringman
Talking only of equal glass I have discovered a 50mm seems to have a little better quality image than a 40mm. For sure the 50mm will last longer in low light when both are on the same magnification setting. Absolutely turning up the magnification allows you to go later into the dark. I proved it on my porch. Mule Deer proved it with his low light test and Jim in Idaho proved it in Africa on a hunt.


I missed the Jim in Idaho Africa Hunt what scope did he use?


Molan Labe
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,769
Originally Posted by AMRA
Originally Posted by Ringman
Talking only of equal glass I have discovered a 50mm seems to have a little better quality image than a 40mm. For sure the 50mm will last longer in low light when both are on the same magnification setting. Absolutely turning up the magnification allows you to go later into the dark. I proved it on my porch. Mule Deer proved it with his low light test and Jim in Idaho proved it in Africa on a hunt.


I missed the Jim in Idaho Africa Hunt what scope did he use?


He used a 1-6X. He couldn't see the animals until he turned it up to 6X.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,065
For very low light, say at or past 30 minutes after sunset, an exit pupil (EP) of 5mm works pretty well for me, generally speaking. The assumption here is that your own eye's pupil will open up that far. So a good 50mm riflescope scope at 10x or 10x56 binocular fit the bill for my low light use. Or for that matter a 42mm riflescope at 8x will get the job done--it will show more detail at 8x than 6x--somewhat dimmer, granted...). An excellent 42mm will do all you need it to in most low light hunting, but a larger objective in the same quality glass will do it a little better and you will find advantages with a 50mm or a 56mm--like Crow & Bobby said.

Power is an asset to the "mature" hunter. Greater power requires more objective size to keep a given EP, and at some point there is a limit to what you want on your rifle or willing to carry. The less light you have also puts a practical cap on the range. For me, some field of view around the critter is helpful, and 10x at 200 yards works pretty well in that regard.

If you look through enough scopes 30 minutes past sunset or under moonlight, you see there are differences--some are subtle and some aren't. Some are better earlier in twilight and some are better later. Sometimes the eyebox gets fussy when the light wanes. You have to compare them side by side or take copious notes under controlled lighting. A lab would help... For me, I compare side by side for the best performance in view--what the glass will show me in small differences over its brethren--the one picked may not necessarily be the brightest. And the rub is, a lot of it may be subjective to the viewer.

Overall the differences are small and when guys reports that a certain glass adds 15 minutes of time to their hunt, they were either selling a product or did the comparison at different times under different light conditions.

Swaro, S&B and Zeiss have been making scopes for shooting porkers in the dark for a long time...and to make sure all your cash is spent, personally I put far more emphasis on the quality and low light view of the binocular over the riflescope for results.

fwiw...


Defend the Constitution
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,331
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,331
You might want to take a look at the first plane reticle 30mm European scopes because the crosshair covers the same amount on the target as you increase the power on a variable and at the upper power settings those reticles really stand out. I've got nothing larger than a 42mm objective because I like lower mounted scopes for a better cheek weld. Those Europeans get to hunt way later into the evening than we do, so a higher end Euro scope with the first plane reticle and better lens coatings would serve you well in low light hunting here.


My other auto is a .45

The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,884
J
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,884
Assuming equal quality scopes 50mm objectives offers better usable light transmission over a 40mm scope only between 8X and 10X magnification. Anything over 10X and there is no difference. Anything below 8X and the human eye can't use the extra light.

Assuming equal quality a scope with a 50mm objective will cost $100-$200 more than the same quality 40mm scope. At the same price point a scope with a 50mm objective is a lower quality scope. I've found that moving up and paying $100-$200 more for a better quality scope with a 40mm objective gives better results than spending the same money on a scope with a 50mm objective


Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Originally Posted by Mjduct
Super chickens are daytime dialing scopes... good for that but for the price, you are sacrificing coatings on the glass... they have always been middle of the road in that department, for the pirice point not bad, but as all thigns it is a compromise and it depends on your field situation/ needs.


To be clear: I could see what I was aiming at, but not what I was aiming with. A similar reticle with a dimly lit aiming point would have made all the difference as would posts that came closer to the center. This is where the long-range dialers fall short as hunting scopes, at least in the woods. I realize that many use them with good success in open country where it's easier to see, even early and late, and where there may be time to bracket the target, but up close in the gloom on a moving target like a traveling or feeding deer, those reticles put you at a considerable disadvantage.

At my next opportunity, I'll do the same test with the TPlex in my Tract, also a 42mm, set at 6x. Since the posts come much closer to the center, I expect it to do better. Also in the pipe is a humble Weaver K6 with a simple duplex. That one, if it passes the test, can go in the spare low rings I have on my Ruger for the season.


What fresh Hell is this?
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
667 members (06hunter59, 17Fan, 09wingates, 007FJ, 160user, 75 invisible), 2,650 guests, and 1,190 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,605
Posts18,398,346
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.169s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9023 MB (Peak: 1.0588 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 13:41:14 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS