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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
To be clear,

I am not saying that a Leupold VX6 can't be used to kill a deer, or that 100% won't hold a zero well enough to shoot a whitetail at 200 yards.

I am saying, that they have significant problems as an aiming device when used hard, and when dialed. Just as good as, isn't. There are manufactures that put "aiming device" as #1 on their scope priorities.... Leupold doesn't. "Aiming device" isn't even in the top five of Leupold. Things like marketing, glass, cost, profit, weight, and features are. They do this because the vast majority of people don't actually shoot.



If you expect or desire your aiming device to stay zeroed through use, buy a scope that is built for that. If showing up to the range or on a hunt and having your scope fail or lose zero isn't that big of a deal- then there are plenty to choose from.


The lesson here for me is that it's foolish to spend, say a grand, on a scope that likely won't hold up over time any better than a $200 from the same outfit. For light use, get the $200 one and save the bucks to spend on one or two good ones to go on rifles that get really get used or really need to work. I can't drop big bucks on the scopes that sit on all my rifles, but I can afford one or two good ones.

While you're at it, do you have any experience with Aimpoints? A lot, if not most of the shots I get while hunting could be taken with a red dot. Aimpoints have a good reputation, but I've never seen much about how they hold up over time.


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Originally Posted by Pappy348


The lesson here for me is that it's foolish to spend, say a grand, on a scope that likely won't hold up over time any better than a $200 from the same outfit. For light use, get the $200 one and save the bucks to spend on one or two good ones to go on rifles that get really get used or really need to work. I can't drop big bucks on the scopes that sit on all my rifles, but I can afford one or two good ones.

While you're at it, do you have any experience with Aimpoints? A lot, if not most of the shots I get while hunting could be taken with a red dot. Aimpoints gave a good reputation, but I've never seen much about how they hold up over time.



You are correct- I have not seen a reliability or durability difference between the VX-1 and the VX-6.



Aimponts are the best red dots available. Nothing else is even close.

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Originally Posted by peeshooter
I am soo happy for you and your dented scope. If you hit glass hard enough it will break that is all I was trying to say. Insult me some more if it makes you feel good. I enjoy the laughs.

Stop while you are behind. If you are smart, you will just listen and learn something,especially from Form. When in doubt, type less, and listen more.

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So what was the total round count ? Any scope can, and do fail. Usually it will be in the first 40-60 rds. I laugh at guys like FormD who try to tell us that Nightforce never fail. Really ? How about the two guys who posted their annoyance with Nightforce because they suggested to them they might not want to send in their scopes for minor repairs due to their six month backlog ?
As far as Leupolds holding up, I've had several of them take hard falls on the desert rocks where I hunt and have never had to rezero one. Yes, I've busted a couple of reticles. All of them were old, well used scopes. None of them were high dollar tactical scopes.
Most here apparently don't understand that there are many grades or levels of Leupold scopes. So learn what the differences are and pick one that fits your needs. For instance, my FX2, 4X are a bit touchy to adjust the windage. But my VX-R Patrol, my VX2 Scout and my Fx3 6X42 are not. Move as they should, up, down, left or right wherever I ask them to. No, I don't twist them to their limits. I'd buy a tactical model with steel guts, and twin springs if that's what I needed.
Or you can believe that Leupolds are junk/unreliable and the military uses so many of them because "the fix is in." E

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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by Pappy348


The lesson here for me is that it's foolish to spend, say a grand, on a scope that likely won't hold up over time any better than a $200 from the same outfit. For light use, get the $200 one and save the bucks to spend on one or two good ones to go on rifles that get really get used or really need to work. I can't drop big bucks on the scopes that sit on all my rifles, but I can afford one or two good ones.

While you're at it, do you have any experience with Aimpoints? A lot, if not most of the shots I get while hunting could be taken with a red dot. Aimpoints gave a good reputation, but I've never seen much about how they hold up over time.



You are correct- I have not seen a reliability or durability difference between the VX-1 and the VX-6.



Aimponts are the best red dots available. Nothing else is even close.

Form
Not to hijak the thread,but our Aimpoint red dot in the helicopter (predator hunting) loses zero after a while. Its on an AR. I suspect the constant vibration from the helicopter. Thoughts? Have checked mounts ect. Its usually off a couple inches at 100yds after maybe 15 to 20 hrs of flying.

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The trijicon 1-8 thanks.


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Originally Posted by jimmyp
The trijicon 1-8 thanks.


Is that a certain model though,or do they just have the one model in a 1-8?

I'm interested in buying well made scopes too.

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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Just my experience, but when I adjust a Leupold I shoot three shots after it. It often ends up 1 out 2 in....then I'll make adjustments from the 2 in as needed. Once set, they've been good, but adjustments for Leupolds aren't a 1 shot deal in my experience.


That is my experience as well.


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Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Just my experience, but when I adjust a Leupold I shoot three shots after it. It often ends up 1 out 2 in....then I'll make adjustments from the 2 in as needed. Once set, they've been good, but adjustments for Leupolds aren't a 1 shot deal in my experience.


That is my experience as well.


x3, doing a single shot sight in will have you doing the leupold shuffle across Texas.


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Originally Posted by atse

Form
Not to hijak the thread,but our Aimpoint red dot in the helicopter (predator hunting) loses zero after a while. Its on an AR. I suspect the constant vibration from the helicopter. Thoughts? Have checked mounts ect. Its usually off a couple inches at 100yds after maybe 15 to 20 hrs of flying.



Spend a lot of time in helo's.


What model Aimpoint, mount and how is it mounted?






Originally Posted by jimmyp
The trijicon 1-8 thanks.


It's a Bobro Dual lever Precision mount. In general I do not like QR mounts due to numerous issues with movement. I prefer hard mounting the optic to the gun with a riser and normal rings, or with a NF Unimount or Geissele Super Precision mount.. Having said that, the dual lever Bobro has been the best QR I've used.

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Originally Posted by leftycarbon
bludog,

Unfortunately we have had the same experience with our VX6. It was sent to Leupold three times. The last time it was there since last August. According to the info sent with it was completely rebuilt. It would not hold zero and the adjustments were very erratic just like yours.
We have no confidence in this scope at all. Great optics are worthless without reliability.


Lefty C



But, but it's got an excellent warranty.... whistle


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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
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You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by jimmyp
The trijicon 1-8 thanks.



I think that you have asked about the Trijicon 1-8x before?

If so, that one has a bit more than 4,000 rounds on it, adjusts correctly, and returns to zero correctly so far.

200-300 mils dialed between shots-
[Linked Image]


1.5" dot. Gun is a 1.6-1.7 MOA shooter with that ammo for ten rounds.

The other that we have is a MOA model and has just shy of 4,000 rounds on it. Performance has been identical- that is to say perfect..... so far.

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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by atse

Form
Not to hijak the thread,but our Aimpoint red dot in the helicopter (predator hunting) loses zero after a while. Its on an AR. I suspect the constant vibration from the helicopter. Thoughts? Have checked mounts ect. Its usually off a couple inches at 100yds after maybe 15 to 20 hrs of flying.



Spend a lot of time in helo's.


What model Aimpoint, mount and how is it mounted?






Originally Posted by jimmyp
The trijicon 1-8 thanks.


It's a Bobro Dual lever Precision mount. In general I do not like QR mounts due to numerous issues with movement. I prefer hard mounting the optic to the gun with a riser and normal rings, or with a NF Unimount or Geissele Super Precision mount.. Having said that, the dual lever Bobro has been the best QR I've used.



Not sure, I will find out. It stays with the helicopter, so I don't have it.

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To answer an earlier question, this was one of the original non-HD model VX-6.


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Formidilosus,

A list of scopes and mounts that you and your pards recommend (for AR and bolt actions) would be insightful, and I for one would be interested.

Obliged.

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Originally Posted by FOsteology
Formidilosus,

A list of scopes and mounts that you and your pards recommend (for AR and bolt actions) would be insightful, and I for one would be interested.

Obliged.




Failures or issues with these scopes are extremely rare-


1). Nightforce NXS/ATACR/BEAST

2). Bushnell LRHS, HDMR/DMR, ERS, XRS

3). SWFA SS 6x, 10x, 1-6x, 3-9x, 5-20x

4). S&B fixed 10x PM

5). Hensoldts

6). Older Leupold fixed power Mark 4's/Ultra's



There are a few more, but the above are the major ones and also most suitable for hunting.




As for rings and bases-

1). Any good picatinny rings- NF, Seekins, Badger, Warne Mountain tech, etc. Even the Burris XTR's do well, though they are heavy.

3). Any good picatinny base. Same as above. The big deal is getting a reputable brand and not knock off Chinese junk.

4). For AR's if not doing the riser/pic ring setup- NF unimounts, Geissele Super Precision, etc.

5). If you have to have QR, I'm pretty much in Bobro Dual Lever mode.

6). If for an AR and you are going to do the riser setup, there isn't a perfect answer. Probably the best is the Wyoming Arms riser if you have a stiff enough handguard.





Hope that helps.

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Is it worthwhile to upgrade a Leupold M 8 fixed power 6x36 or 8x40 AO to M 1 turrets or should I just stick to the friction dials and get a LR duplex instead? I'm not really a long range hunter but would like the option to shoot to 500 yards or so.


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thanks, I move scopes around so I like the idea, I have been using the larue and tightning the nuts after it was on the gun with their wrench until I felt they would not tighten with thumb pressure.


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A few years back my buddy and I conducted velocity test on different barrel lengths by cutting the rifle at the range. It was for his website. We started with a Rem 700VS with a Leupold VX6. At first we cut the barrel down by hand and it proved too slow. We ended up using a hacksaw and beat the living snot out of this rifle. We went from 26-16 inches 1 inch cuts. I have to say I was impressed the scope held zero.


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Originally Posted by gerry35
Is it worthwhile to upgrade a Leupold M 8 fixed power 6x36 or 8x40 AO to M 1 turrets or should I just stick to the friction dials and get a LR duplex instead? I'm not really a long range hunter but would like the option to shoot to 500 yards or so.


I am not a dialer but with my experience twisting just for zero, I'd never trust one for dialing in corrections. The LR Duplex is marvelous in my opinion. The best combination for a set and forget hunting rifle which maybe asked to reach out to 400 yds or so.


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