Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Always thought "Speed Kills".....

That's what I grew up thinking, but the advent of this "Primitive Weapons" season here in LA has us shooting single shot Whelens, .444s, and .35Rem rifles at several animals each fall and winter. I'm changing that notion to "Tissue Damage Kills".




This was another animal that fell to a 358win-level handload in my 35 Whelen Apex (225NAB at 2,430fps). It quartered through him and he made it about 5 yards before piling up. Looking at the 20 or so animals we've shot on our place in recent years with that Whelen load or polymer-tipped FTX Hornady loads in 444 or 35Rem, all have been handled just as well as a 7mm RM, .270Win, 30-06, or the like. Granted, we limit shots to 250yds or so with the single shots, but even lung shots result in lots of blood and fairly short death runs. So, in light of what I've seen, my perspective has changed somewhat. There really is more than one way to skin a cat, and 200-265gr at 2,200-2,500 get things done just as well as anything when the distances are not too far and your bullet choice allows for good expansion. Some guys I know who mostly hunt shorter-range spots have taken to hunting their Primitive Weapons rifles all season long.

As an aside, that hog slid out of my truck as I bounced through some pretty good mud holes last night coming out of the woods. After dragging him up a wooden ATV ramp once already, I said screw it and pulled him out with a ratchet strap through the hocks and looped over my trailer ball. Coyotes don't care about a few scuffs and some mud on their supper.

Kinda why 7x57 with 175 grainers kills so well, as does a 30-30 with 170s...

And why those old-timers still hunt with their lever guns in .35 Remington. I've got a 336 in the back of the safe and a 2-7x33 Revolution that probably should get zeroed and hunted some this year.

My 336/Weaver K4/180's is a hog crusher.

Congrats JPro. Hard to argue success! I’m kinda of the Elmer Keith philosophy, “ big and fast”! So far.... I’ve had pretty good luck with .375 diameters at 2900 to 3100+ fps velocities. Looking forward to trying out my 45-70 Marlin GG in the Atchafalaya Basin! memtb

My shoulder can handle the recoil up to Whelen and .444 levels, but a .375 at 3,000 sounds sort of miserable on both ends.....

For my point and shoot 308 I just subbed a 165 Ballistic Tip for the usual 168 match bullet on top of a modest charge of 3031. A little high at 100, a little low at 200, right at the duplex thickness transition at 300.

I love shooting .44 and .45 caliber bullets at game. They absolutely pound stuff.

I'm going to get this one going and see how it likes the FTX loads. It's un-American that I've never killed a critter with a lever gun. Probably need to remedy that.

Right. arrows and ML can’t kill.

Yes....recoil will get your attention, but really is quite manageable. I finally started using a PAST recoil shield, when shooting from the bench. At just under 9 lbs. scoped, loaded, and slung....you wish it was a pound or two less when carrying, and a pound or two more when shooting! It’s been my only hunting rifle (to use) since 1990, so it’s not bad ....or I’m numb! memtb

I found that I tend to lean forward too much at the bench. That puts the recoil through my shoulder and straight down my back. A higher rest to let me sit more upright helps. My shoulder will get pushed back but not my back. I can handle more recoil by sitting upright.

Rock Chuck, A big 10-4 on that! Though I didn’t mention it. I’ve also of firm belief that a small frame (light) shooter, should be able to handle recoil better than a large (heavy) shooter. My perspective is that, the lighter person will begin to “roll with the punch” quicker than a heavy person....thereby absorbing less recoil before the body moves rearward! Don’t know if that’s factual, but... that’s my story and I stick’n to it! memtb

Big, strong macho types can take a lot more of a beating at the bench by trying to fight the recoil. Just let it roll.

It only hurts a little while.

I'm a fan of the Whelen, 358 Win, and 35 Rem for easy killing. No need to push them hard, bullets perform well, stuff dies quick. Blood trails are usually impressive. They give up a little range and have a little more recoil but there is something I enjoy about 35's.

Shot placement kills.

Very true. Watched a hunter shoot a big grizzly this past season with a bow. The bear was an old boar, very skinny, worn teeth, all the toes on one foot were gone and he only had one ear. The other presumably chewed off in a fight at some point in his life. Anyway the bear was walking along a river bank and a guide friend of mine hid next to a bush with his hunter in an ambush attempt. The bear spotted them at about 80 yards but kept coming. He was popping his teeth the whole way in after that....a bad bear no doubt. At 22 yards my guide friend figured that was close enough, so he stood up with his rifle at the ready. The bear lifted his head slightly and the hunter slipped an arrow through his chest. The old boar turned and went 4 yards before piling up. He was dead before the hunter recovered from his shot.The hunters wife filmed the whole thing and it is by far the best hunting footage I have ever seen. The point to the story is that the arrow killed the bear as quickly as any rifle would have, only because the arrow was placed perfectly. Im not advocating using archery equipment to stop charging bears, but accuracy is still the most important thing when it comes to killing big game.

300 grain bullet from a 405 win @ 2200 fps lays them out with little meat damage, and a huge entrance and exit hole.

I like both my 35 Whelen and the 358 I used to own. They gave good and short blood trails every time. So does my 50 caliber TC Firehawk throwing .429 300 grain Nosler HP's at 1600 fps. A recent neck injury has sidelined the Whelen for now as all my reloads are top end and a couple shots makes my neck hurt for days.