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400 yard called coyote a failed stand

I made this statement on another thread related to fixed power scope. I bit of a discussion ensued so I thought I’d bring it here. If you have to shoot a called coyote at 400 plus yards I contend that it is a failed stand. I contend that you can come back another day and call him into a decent range. 400+ yards is a very long shot on a coyote, considering it is a first cold bore shot from field positions. Some can make the shot but the odds are in the coyotes favor for most shooters when you figuer in drop, wind and shooting position and the odds go up as the closer you get to the coyote, with most good coyote cartridges you can hold on fur to 300 yards.

Comments were that these were educated coyotes and they will not come in so you have to take the shot or they will get away. They aren’t that educated, they responded to the call. You will notice that most of these educated coyotes that respond to the call, stop on a hill over looking the call sight and study the whole area, they are looking for something that isn’t right. Movement from using binoculars, a black barrel sticking out of the brush, the roof of your truck. If you hunt separated from your partner the best way to find him is to look for his barrel sticking out of the brush, there is nothing straight and black in nature, if I can spot a hunter so can mister coyote. Just anything that isn’t right will spook a coyote. But how spooked is he if nothing happens to reinforce his fear.

I hunt a lot of heavily called public land and have seen coyotes stick there head out of a bush and study a whole hillside and I was easily spotted although I was motionless the whole time. But here’s the trick, I came back a couple days later, set the call in the same area and set up so I could see behind the brush and not on the hillside. Result a standing fairly short range shot on an educated coyote. It is fairly common to call in one of these educated coyotes, not spook him and come back and call him again from a different position/stand placement, maybe a different sound and call him into reasonable range. This time the coyote educated you. You can beat them at there own game




In the picture above is a picture of a stand from last month, we killed the coyote but it was a failed stand, the coyote came from the only place he could see the truck on the far left at the top of the hill. Instead of comeing down into the valley to the call he saw the truck and headed up wind at the top of the hill moving to the right. My nephew to the shot and killed the coyote, it was 275 yards, add another 200 yards to that and it would have been extremely dicey shoot. We killed the coyote but it was still a failed stand

On the same trip my nephew blew a shot on a coyote that came up a small valley, he wanted to redeem himself so we went back a couple days later and set the caller in the same place but we set up to see the hilltops around the little valley. This time the coyote came in like an educated coyote to the hilltop and was studying the little valley when my nephew made just a 200 yard shot and ended mister coyotes education

so why was the 200 yd coyote a success and the 275 yarder a 'failure'?

Sounds like success could be bolstered a bunch, by simply not letting your partner stick his 'black thing' outta the bush.....

but then again, you'd have trouble finding him when it's time to go home.....

Dead coyote= success. Live coyote= failure. But I'm simple that way. Sure, I'd prefer a 40 yard charge but I take ALL opportunities when it's obvious they aren't getting any better RIGHT NOW. Shoot a 22-250 or a 220 Swift if you have to but take the shot. Tomorrow will worry about itself. You could get t-boned by a semi on an icy road on the way home then what of Mr. Smart coyote that you let go? I say shoot at anything semi reasonable when it comes to coyote hunting. Hell I killed one at 450 yards with a Fireball. Only time I've ever shot that far with it and it worked. If it was big game it'd be different, but it's coyotes. Take the shot.

I think I get the reasoning behind your post, and you make some good points, but on the other hand, I've never aspired to be like "most shooters", and I hope most here don't either. That bar is way too low. That thinking makes sense I guess if you're guiding hunts for people of unknown skill, but hunting for yourself? Take the shot, that's why us loonies think about such things as flat shooting cartridges, wind drift, drop, etc.

I do see your point that maybe the hide/stand wasn't good enough, even if the hunt is successful. I'm certainly interested in tips on calling coyotes in better.

I love coyote/ predator hunting, I spent a good part of my early life doing a lot of subsistance hunting, if there wasn't venison in the freezer we eat alot of hamberger, Raccoon, muskrats and beaver all went on the table. To me coyotes/preds are a fur check and I rarely hunt them unless they get skinned, far more challenging than big game hunting and you can do it for more of the year. In trapping you are trying to convince a coyote to put his foot down on a specific 2 sq. in. of a very large chunk of real estate, duck hunting you are trying to get the ducks to land/committ to a very small patch of water no more than 40 yards accross. Coyote calling is much the same your trying to put a coyote in a place where you can easily shoot him. If you have to settle for a very long shot on a coyote instead of having him in where you want him, something went wrong, much like getting backdoored or winded only this time you get to see him finding something wrong. You call them educated but to what, not the sound of the caller, they are already coming to that, there has to be something else that they find wrong or youget nervous that they won't come in the rest of the way and take the shot way before you need to..

Shooting one at 400+ yards is on the order of sky busting or extreme pass shooting on waterfowl occasionally you scratch one down where if you having them coming into the decoys with their feet down sometimes you can aproach 100%.

I personally think there should be a season on coyotes from Oct-Mart on PUBLIC land. To me you killing coyotes just to kill them when they have no value is a waste. To me coyotes are far more valuable than the one deer I could shoot, I understand that you feel that the indesciminant killing to better your odds of killing a deer or pheasant is important.

Private land is a whole different ball game, you do what you have to to protect your land, and when I get a call to help with a problem coyote I do it.

There are some very good coyote hunters that take pride in long range coyotes, There is also a legion of guys out there with a $99 Spitfire , 223 with a 4.5x14 with hashmarks that think a coyote a 400 yards is succesful calling stand.

As far as my partner missing he was a newbie only killing one coyote befor the trip. On the trip he called his first coyote with a mouth call, made his longest kill on anything, was able to take a pair out of a quad I called in, in all of 6 half days of calling we called about 30 coyotes we saw and killed 10. The coyotes wern't prime so I let a lot of them go just for him. I am actually quite proud of how he did. And this was all cold calling country I've never been in before.

So all these un-prime coyotes you been calling are on private land?

I'm confused.

Kill where you see them. 20 yards to 800 yards. In the 70s and eary 80's when the pelts were worth good money we use to skin them, don't care to take the time now to mess with them.

This thread makes a lot of sense.

To someone.





Travis

You might want to rethink that. Good prime Coyotes are fetching up $75 in some areas with the big northern prairie pales pushing $100.
Granted they were around $75 back in the 70's which was dam good money for that time period but it's still worth pulling the hide off of one at today's prices. Least for a geezer on a fixed income it is.

Well said,

I hunt mostly for fur and recreation on public land but I do have get called a few times a year to kill “troublesome” coyotes. I think most of us agree that we’d rather call them to our boot laces but that’s not how it works every time. If one stops at 400 and refuses to come in closer the last thing I’m going to do is stand up and walk away. I’m a firm believer that coyotes get educated, meaning when they come into a call and see you, wind you, a miss etc that they will begin to associate a memory with humans.
IMO you get a few chances, distress calls(switching distress sounds might work, but is rare), if you screw this up you can return with coyote vocals and if you screw that up things just got MUCH harder.

This is all based on experience in trying to kill specific coyotes. I want to kill the coyotes I call in. Period. Whether it’s with a shotgun or at 400 yards, I’m doing my best to make it happen.

If I show up to the cafe and one of my landowners ask if I’m killing his coyotes and I tell him I passed because killing coyotes at longer ranges isn’t fair, he will find someone who will.

This is all getting harder now that every a$$hat (who doesn’t have a clue about coyotes) has an e-caller.

It was a stupid [bleep] post in the other thread and it's more stupid here. Congrats?

Fieldgrade, I was told there is a fella in Lewiston that will pay you for yotes without skinning them. Have not looked into it, but something to think about if the price is right.

A couple of points. How do you know that the coyote you killed the second time,s the same one that wouldn't come in the first time? That is hard to tell. It likely was a different one you killed. As a govt trapper I have to key in on certain coyotes, that are killing livestock,and I have to kill em case closed. If I screw it up, then I have to figure out a different method to kill em,because they are just going to keep killing livestock. By Feb and march I am dealing with a lot of coyotes that have been called multiple times, often by people that aren't very good at it. Many of these coyotes will pop up at 300 to 500 yds and just look. No sound, nothing. Then they leave, or circle down wind. I have my rifle,set up for this,a d with a ton of practice,can get a first shot hit on a broad side coyote about 80% of the time at 500yds. Took me 2years of practice to get here(and a very accurate rifle). I still miss one out there once in a while,but I kill a good handful of coyotes every year that are educated,and killing livestock at ranges between 350 and 550. Well worth it. Also,you would be surprised at the number of smart coyotes that sneak in an hour to an hour and a half after you quit calling to look around.

Some good posts here that make sense - the original philosopher not so much.

I don't know of anyone in Lewiston that buys in the round but I enjoy putting up fur so I skin and stretch em.

I sell to Don Judkins (Fort Benton Fur) over in Orifino. He screws me but he's a real nice guy.

I've been thinking about trying my hand at coyote calling and predator hunting. I hear that it's really easy.
Any tips for a newbie?

Easy - maybe, Frustrating - definitely.

Best advice - get out there and do it.
Read a book or 2.
Watch the wind.
Scout, make sure there are coyotes where you are calling.
Pack a mouth call even if you have an e-caller.

What do I look for when scouting? Scat, tracks in the road?

Sorry I upset the campfire.

All of the above and check dry creek beds for tracks, listen for howling at night, ask land owners if private.

No one is upset. Just when you post your own personal philosophy on any thing on the 'fire be prepared that many may disagree with you. No one flamed you, called you names, swore at you,...etc. Try saying that 400 yd shots on big game should not be taken on the long range forum. Ouch.

What caliber of rifle is best? I have a .223 and a 22 mag.
Any suggestions on calls? I have seen some electronic calls, I think they were called fox something....
Is early morning the best time, or mid day?

The e-caller you are referring to is the FoxPro brand. They are considered the best by most. I have one a very old one but still works fine and produces good sound. The 223 is a great over all calling round. If your shots are routinely over 300yds or in high winds then a 22-250, 6mm (243) or even more powerful rounds such as 25-06 or even 257 Roy may be an advantage. In a pinch any rifle in the closet can be used. I would limit the 22mag to close in shots in places where noise may be a problem. I sometimes carry downloaded 223 50 gr ammo (50gr at 2200 fps) at a little over 22 mag velocities for opportunities at small game or need for a quieter shot.

Find lots of spots and call them. It's the only way to really learn and get "good."

When you first start out there is a lot of luck involved and after you kill 40 there is still a lot of luck involved. But until you experience those few lucky times you won't really ever learn anything. Have a howler, have a wabbit distress and get a bulb squeaker.

Scouting isn't a bad idea but just because there is no dog sign doesn't mean you can't chance into a dog. Stop and take 10-15 minutes to call it anyway.

If you think you're making the right sound, you are. Just keep swinging.

.223 is a great round to use.



Travis

You never know. I've found that full moons results in poor calling and dark moons tend to result in better calling.





Travis

The only thing easier is spotting elk...

Those cows are clearly in the way. That is a clever disguise by those elk if they are elk at all. They seem to be bovine in nature...

Haha!

I guess it depends on one's definition of success.

If the idea is to get a coyote to come to the call without any idea of caution...then yes. I agree.


If one stops at 330 yards and sits down....said coyote might just think he is out of rifle range.

Travis has the same visual impairment, there were around 100 elk there...

Is that why people shoot my cows?

One small mix up and he never lets me hear the end of it.






Travis


PS-Don't mention this incident to Jim. Thanks.

That bear is kind of small isn't it?

I feel like I have to try and get the point across that I seem to have failed misserably at the first time.

When I'm calling coyotes and I have one hang up at 400 yards, I think what did I do wrong and it is a much lower percentage shot than having him at 100 yards. What can I do to correct it, I know how he is going to react when he hears the caller, he isn't affraid of the sound just the situation. I have the option of trying the shot or coming back and changing the situation to my advantage, I opt to come back, I learn a lot everytime I get to out smart a coyote. So for me a 400 yard CALLED coyote is a failed stand.

A story about a farmer in Neceda, WI back in the 1950's they had special archery deer season on the refuge and archers from all over would be there. One of the local farmers painted a bullseye on the side of his mule, his comment, "If they are dumb enought to shoot at a mule the odds of them hitting the bullseye are pretty slim". I will say that I heard the story second hand at the Alexandrian Bar in town.

Now my ex father in law was working a check station in SE MN when a hunter pulled in with a Brown Swiss calf tied to the hood.

What are you.... a f’n Park Ranger now?

The nice thing about a 22-250 as a coyote cartridge, is it doubles for elk in the Montana Big Game season in your 7-08 rifle.

What you don't seem to understand is that when we joke around about elk hunting, it is funny. When you and your pathetic sense of humor emerge, everyone leaves...

I understand more than your think Mr. Who's House is That.

You're bad.....

Really bad.

https://flic.kr/p/GgeQc4

I saw this guy this afternoon in a field. I pulled over to watch him. He kept his nose to the ground like he was smelling the ground, then I'd see him pick something up and chew on it and then go back to sniffing the ground. Not sure what he was doing though. Anyway I watched him for a long time and then something scared him and he took off towards the road and as he got to the middle a big dodge truck came by and ran him over killing him instantly. I loaded him up and thought I would try to skin him, but he smelled so bad that I couldn't stomach the smell. He smelled really bad, like he was rolling in something dead....
Do they always smell this bad?
And does this count as my 1st coyote since I picked him up?

Of course it counts.....called, decoyed, trapped, run em with Sight Hounds, road rage....it all counts.

Newbies, sheesh..... Let him lay in the back of your truck for about a week before skinning him. 5-7 days will just about do it (in warmish temps), as far as 'airing him out' goes. Be sure to wait long enuff for his belly to turn green first.

Thanks huntsman22, I'll try it next time.

FYI, State Troopers frown on shooting coyotes from even a small country road. Always best if there's no bullet hole. *wink wink*

^^^^^ Thanks...... I don't want any trouble with the police. They don't always have a great sense of humor.

Gonzo, you won't much notice the smell with a clothespin on your nose after you stuff your nostrils with Vicks, if you don't want to wait for the stink to dissipate naturally.

Can you sew a coyotes tail back on if you accidentally pull it off?.... YouTube videos cover a lot of info but they failed to mention this part. He must have pooped all of his guts out when that truck hit him. He was pretty stinky though. Will Vicks help me with skinning?

I use safety pins. Never learned to sew.

I myself don't shoot that well at 400 yd coyotes...I missed one today 3 shots at 400+. I envy anyone who can shoot from hunting possision that far..
I wasn't calling rather moving from one farm to another and saw him from the pickup...pickup doors in the wind make for a poor rest...

Just breathe out of your mouth.

Thats my standard for most anything from cleaning out a dead calf from inside the cow, to changing diapers, to nasty fire and ambulance calls.


About the only thing that still makes me gag using that method is when you have a cow in the head catch in the barn. Its usually well below freezing and you either just pulled a calf or are about to pull a calf and ole momma cow empties her bladder.

You are enveloped in a cloud of piss/steam and can taste the smell.......there is something about being in a cloud of piss steam so dense that you cant see through it.

Boy am I glad that my only livestock eats kibbles and sleeps on the foot of the bed.

Hey.... This is a private residence...man.





Dave

au contraire

You’re not wrong.... you’re just an ass-hole....

THAT is funny! Made me laugh. Got to love a smart ass!

Travis treats objects like women, man.

You’re out of your element Beanie....

I get as much if not more enjoyment pile driving one at 400yds as one at calling one in at 75.

Well, it's quite obvious you've never played 'pin-the-tail-on-the-coyote'.

I've not experienced anything as foul smelling as a salmon eating wolf.

I'll bet. Peeee Ewwwww...............

I have killed a handful of bobtail coyotes over the years. They could have used your services.

129 yard shot, taken when walking back to vehicle after an unsuccessful calling stand intended for lynx. I did NOT shoot his tail off! He needs help from hunstman22 with a safety pin-- and a spare tail.




Erich and some others have posted some good coyote calling info, whatever their philosophy. Gonzaga is baiting us! The trouble is that when you start you have no idea how to sift out the bad info from the good, and the majority of internet predator how-to is bad or very incomplete IME. The percentage of good info here at the campfire is way higher than on the biggest predator calling site. Lotsa wannabes over there repeating stuff they got from each other.

By the time you have killed enough called coyotes to know enough to sort out good advice from bad, you don't need most of the info people post. I.e most of what is said about wind and calling critters ranges from totally wrong to half baked info that shows only that the poster has gotten his first clue and thinks that he has solved the case.

I don't know anywhere near all about calling but know enough to know baloney when I run across a slice on the 'net.

Dang it I'm busted🤓.....
There are so many variables when coyote hunting that even an old veteran can find himself shaking his head in disgust.....
Some coyotes are so educated that I've had them hand up out past 400 on many occasion. Sometimes there is no way to get around on them bc of private property. The educated ones weakness is their territorial instincts. Decoy dogs take that guard down and kick it out the way and then an old Wiley coyote can be had, but I've had just as many young ones tuck tail and haul A$$ and never look back. Every stand is different.
I'll be looking forward to hearing some success stories from you guys this year.

Good Luck,

gonzaga

Okanagan. No lynx here, a natural stub tail from just 9 miles north of the southern border. I thought you'd like the accessories.

Niiice!! You know how to pick classy accessories!