Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles A company that trims brass???

I am looking at puttin a new rifle together for gophers and p. Dogs... I am considering a .223 AI just to avoid case trimming.. But it seemed to me I saw on this site the mention of a company that did this for a reasonable fee.. Looked though my notes, but must have neglected to write it down.. A .223 would be my first choice, but I do not want to trim a 1000 rounds of ammo for it.. Maybe I just dreamed this.. Thanks...

Never a problem for me until I started reloading .243s more. Think I'm going to get a WFT with replaceable heads. I did use a Lee tool with the big knob and my drill on some Grendel cases the other day, but would not recommend it for 1000!

Google the world's cheapest trimmer, you'll be happy you did, I trimmed a thousand rounds in a couple hours.

Just a note: Sometimes the amount of trimming you're doing depends on the match between your sizing die and the chamber of your rifle. In my 308 Win. loading if I were to use my Hornady FL sizer instead of my Forster I'd be doing a lot more trimming.

There are a couple outfits that process .223 brass, mainly I see Highpower competitors using them.

I hadn't seen that one before, interesting. Gotta say the name is wrong though; the Lee cutter and pilot (also used in a drill press the same way) is still cheaper at ~$6 for the cutter and ~$6 for caliber specific pilots, just as fast, and more accurate since it actually goes by case length instead of spacing off the shoulders. The one disadvantage to the Lee in comparison is you have to deprime first, but I always size before trimming anyway. They're also available in most gun shops at least for the more common calibers.

Yondering,

I've tested a bunch of power trimmers, and am curious about your claim of the Lee being just as fast as shoulder-indexing models. I haven't found a single model with a case-head shellholder to be nearly as fast as any shoulder-indexing trimmer, and also have a friend who'd been a big fan of the Lee until I loaned him a WFT.

How many cases can you trim per minute with the Lee?

MD - throw away the case head shell holder, and use the Lee cutter and pilot the same way as that "World's Cheapest Trimmer" discussed above - in a drill press or with a cordless drill against a table. The time is exactly the same because they function the same way - hold the case by hand, lower the cutter until it stops, then drop it in a bucket and on to the next one. If it takes more than a few seconds per case something is wrong or I'm being lazy.

The advantage over something that spaces against the shoulder is consistency since the Lee pilot stops against the table; no issues with shoulders at different points or brass chips getting between the shoulder and the stop. If you size before trimming then shoulders should be pretty consistent too so maybe no real difference there.

The Lee setup doesn't deburr and chamfer, but neither does that WCT thing.

Thanks for the explanation. I might try it--and might not, as I have shoulder-indexing power trimmers that chamfer as they trim, and can run 20-30 cases per minute through them, how long depending on the size of the case. (Don't really see the sense in trimming 1000 cases and then chamfering them all afterward.)

I would also bet that shoulder-indexing is still faster. In the time it takes to place a case, base-down under a cutter, I can stick one inside the trimmer and have the job at least started, and sometimes done.

I always resize before trimming, and while there can be a slight difference in consistent case length in shoulder-indexed trimmers, it's very small (yes, I've measured it), and I haven't found it makes any discernible difference in accuracy. I do use a base-indexed lathe-type trimmer for my benchrest rifle, but dunno if it even makes any accuracy difference there, as they're always neck-sized after the first firing anyway.

I use a Gracey with the carbide inside/outside chamfer inserts. But I can't do 30/minute. Maybe 15. Cuts perfect chamfers...Downside is the set up time. So I only use it on my high volume stuff. 223/308 primarily.

Off topic have a Sinclair vld tool for inside chamfering but have never found a good tool for outside deburring. Any suggestions

Being the glutton for punishment that I am, I actually processed 600 pieces of LC 5.56 brass last week (trimming AND reaming primer pockets, then chamfering by hand)-- in a Wilson trimmer. It only took two evenings, and wasn't really all that debilitating.

I know, I know. I just couldn't be bothered with buying or jerry-rigging a power trimming set up for what would probably be a one time deal. Rarely do I load anything in batches of more than 40-50. This AR on the other hand is a voracious animal, and I may have to re-think this.

Giruad Case trimmer = trims them like a pencil sharpener... better than the other types.

http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm

Giraud is very good, but so is the Gracey tool. The Giraud has a more powerful motor, which helps with larger cases, but for most cases the Gracey works fine, and is less expensive. But the Gracy works better with a Giraud cutter, which fits perfectly and chamfers as it trims.

A more limited trimmer that also chamfers as it trims is the Black Widow Trim-It II. It can be run off a motor they also sell, but works just as well in a drill motor, like the WFT (World's Finest Trimmer). It costs more than a WFT, but a lot less than a Gracey or Giraud, and works just as fast. I use one for the .308 Winchester with an old but powerful DeWalt drill, and it's just as fast as a Giraud.

I rethought the AR, not the trimming. Clearly not my thing.

It's not, unless you're just trying to make one seem faster than the other. Nothing like a little pre-concieved bias to put a skew on things...

Hornady has a great out side cutter but its is for use with a case trimmer 3/8" threaded I modified it a bit to use on the RCBS case prep center, I'm going to look at Lyman's trim center next

Never thought of that. Sounds like a great idea, thanks for the tip!

Yondering,

My "pre-conceived bias" comes from doing many time-motion tests to determine the most time-efficient ways to produce handloads. One of the basic principles is that each individual motion requires time, even if it's fast. In a shoulder-indexed trimmer there are two basic movements: Pushing the case into the trimmer, and pulling it out. This is why I can trim at least 20 cases a minute: Pushing the case in takes about a second, trimming takes another second, and pulling the case out takes another. Thus about three seconds a case.

In a base-indexed trimmer, no matter how it's set up, requires four movements: Placing the case, moving the trimmer onto the case, backing off the trimmer, and removing the case from where it's placed. So yeah, my bias from plenty of time-motion tests is that it will take longer, but if you can prove me wrong that would be great. All you have to do is time how many cases you can trim in a minute. However, that doesn't cover removing burrs/chamfering.

Dale Hegstrom, the guy who invented and sells the WFT, found that with high RPM's, not pressing the case hard against the cutter, while turning slowly in the direction of the cut, eliminated burrs. If you're loading boattails, the flat-trimmed cases work fine. But the process also requires more trimming time, and while some flat-based bullets will seat pretty easily in the non-chamfered case necks, some won't. In particular the .17 calibers don't, and all major brands of .17 caliber bullets are flat-based, with pretty sharp corners. As a result, if you don't chamfer .17 cases, necks tend to collapse during bullet seating.

One reason I started investing in shoulder-indexed trimmers was the ability to deburr and chamfer .17 caliber cases while they were trimmed, but other cases also benefit from trimming and chamfering when seating flat-based bullets, as handloaders have probably known since reloadable metallic cases appeared. And chamfering 1000 cases after trimming adds far more time to the process.

MD, I'm an engineer and use economy of motion as part of my profession, so I'm very familiar with that and how it can be very subject to interpretation. You're adding an extra step to the process I described to make it seem slower; it uses the same motions and the same amount of time. The only difference is slipping the case over a pilot instead of inside; you don't have to position the base anywhere. I don't have anything to prove here, I'm sure someone else with a more open mind will find my information useful.

If you want to know which is faster, try it yourself, but as you said, you're already invested in a different method, so there's your bias.

You seem to be confused between the WFT and the WCT. Nobody here was talking about the WFT except you. My initial comment was in reference to the WCT that montanabadger mentioned.

A common problem with people who know a lot is being right so often that they can't imagine ever being wrong.

No, I'm not confusing the WCT with the WFT. I used to WFT to illustrate a point about just trimming, trimming to prevent burring, and chamfering while trimming.

Thanks for the additional explanation of the method you use. That makes sense now.