Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Not happy I bought Gun Gack

I got over my displeasure with Mule Deer over the lack of reloading data in Rifle or Handloader in his article on the 6mm Lee Navy after I bought his Gun Gack book and found the info in there. Once that was settled, I enjoyed the other articles for the most part.

What is now twisting my tail are Mule Deer's glowing accounts of the 204 Ruger. I have no need or use for one as prairie dogs are pretty rare in MN and what ground squirrels can be found are readily handled with a 22 LR or a 17 HMR if one wants to be different.My main use outside deer hunting is informal targets and coyote which I am fairly well covered with 22 High Power, 223, 219 Zipper, 22/250, 250 Savage, and 6mm Rem.Years back I had a 17 Remington which I thought great for fox but the rare coyote seen back then proved to be a bit larger than that cartridge could reliably handle. A heavier bullet and/or different construction would have probably done wonders but due to those experiences I am hesitant using something smaller than 22 caliber on coyotes. I also do not need to add another caliber to the hoarde as I have more than enough dies on the shelf. It's somewhere north of 40 if I remember correctly, and I am trying to slim down the number so I can at least fit all of them into a safe rather than in odd corners.

But the articles were intriguing enough that a pair of Savage rifles on the used rack of a local store has caught my eye. Every time I go in I am drawn to them and it is becoming harder and harder to leave one there. They have been sitting on the shelf long enough that the manager is likely to drop a few bucks off what I think is a reasonable price of $300 each. They are nothing special, both are blue/synthetic but unknown whether standard or Accu-trigger as I am afraid to hold one long enough to have the trigger lock removed for ear of buying it.

My biggest question is: If I should succumb to the impulse to buy one of these guns, should I go with the Model 25 or the Model 11? Both appear to be fired very little and I would not be surprised if they had not been fired at all.I am familiar with the 110/10 series as I have or have owned several of these models but the 25 is something I have familiarity with. I don't know if it is an Axis/Edge wannabe or something better/worse. Both have bases and rings with the 11 having a cheap 3-9x Simmons scope which would end up on some trade gun if someone insisted on having a scope included. Both have an asking price of $290 but as mentioned, they have been around a while and I should be able to get a few bucks marked off.

Any suggestions or opinions on the pros and cons of the two models would be greatly appreciated (not really if I were not falling into the looney bin) in the event one of the rifles were to latch onto my arm and not let go. Also, any experiences on largish coyotes (35+ pounds) would be helpful.I suspect the heaviest bullets would be best as I prefer 55 gr for the most part in the 22s.

The 25 started out as a bolt-handle locking action for the .22 Hornet. They added lugs for the .223 and .204. They seem to shoot well from what I've seen in person (1 Hornet) and read. Should be slimmer and lighter than a 110-based action, but wouldn't be as suitable for turning into something else later, I think.

Buy the one you like.

OK...I feel your pain...I never had a .204 till Mule Deer talked me into one...Now I have it, scads of ammo for it, a barrel in its Golden Years and two spare barrels waiting as replacements. You might say I like it.....

But all this costs...all because of JB.

As for your choice of rifles...silly question.


Buy them BOTH!

I'm also a 204 apostle. I started with one, now have 3. Ingwe is right-buy both!

204 is great to play with. Have an Encore barrel and a Howa. Encore likes 32s and Howa likes 40s. 40 sets of dies? So? Is that abnormal?

Buying both is an urge I have to fight. My best defense and what has prevented me from buying one of them so far has been deciding what to do with a couple of sporterized Mauser 98s I have on hand. I don't need 5 rifles in 8x57 so two will be changed to something else- and at least one other reason I should not have bought Gun Gack.

The 25 grabbed my attention most due to its lighter weight but the stock seemed flimsier too. The 11 was heavier and more solid but the weight turned me off a bit. I'll have to compare my Rem 700 in .223 with them and buy which ever is least similar. When I rebarrel I could go light or heavy if I stick with the 204.

Thanks for the advice, it may not help me thin the herd but it gives me something better to agonize over besides whether I should clean the bathroom or the kitchen.

I carry a CZ .204 in the feed truck, continuously. VERY accurate, although it's been beat kinda hard.
While I've taken coyotes with my 32 gr V-Max handloads (built for PD's), I've had GREAT luck with the Nosler BT's on coyotes. Broadside will always exit, leaving a dime to nickle size hole. I like the Nosler's, as they seem to be a little "harder" than the V-Max. For factory loads - the Winchester 36 (?) grain worked pretty darn well on coyotes.
In my rifle, the 32V-Max shoot exactly 1" higher @ 100, than the 40 grain Nosler's.

204 is a less versatile 223. If you are not willing to sacrifice your 223 for one then you probably shouldn’t bother...

Agreed. Well said.

drover

Mjduct,

"Interesting" comments, but perhaps not as insightful as you believe, for more than one reason. First, woodmaster81 makes no mention of having to "sacrifice" his .223 for a .204. All he mentions is wondering about possibly buying a rifle that needs another set of dies.

Second, rifle loonies are rarely addicted to versatility in their cartridges, almost by definition. Otherwise they'd still be shooting small varmints with the .30-06, a use still advocated by some noted firearms writers when I was a very young rifle loony, because of the .30-06's versatility. But the .243 Winchester was also often mentioned, because it was then considered (and promoted as) the ideal "dual-purpose" rifle cartridge for varmints and deer-sized game. Based on experience, I'd say the .375 H&H might even be more versatile than the .223, .243 or .30-06, because I've used the .375 considerably for hunting animals from ground squirrels to Cape buffalo. If somebody really considers versatility the supreme virtue of a rifle cartridge, the .375 just might win.

Third, he's already probably thought considerably about the versatility of the .223 already, in part because Chapter 15 of GUN GACK (which appears shortly after the .204 chapter) is titled ".223 Remington: The Smallest All-Around Cartridge," which not only discusses its uses from very small to deer-sized animals, but lists tested handloads in five .223's with a wide variety of bullets ranging from 40 to 80 grains.

It's always entertaining to read Campfire comments on my articles and books from people who've obviously never read the article or book in question. In fact, that's why I started posting here over 15 years ago. I lurked for a while, but eventually somebody posted a very positive comment on one of my recent magazine articles. Other people started questioning him, so he condensed the 3000-word article into a couple of sentences. Whereupon at least a couple of the other posters said my article was FOS, even though they'd never read it, so didn't know whether the condensation was accurate. It wasn't, because it's extremely difficult to condense 3000 words into 30, but even so the inevitable Campfire naysayers were extremely sure they knew everything about something they'd never read.

Personally, I don't think woodsmaster81 should buy a .204, because from this post he doesn't seem to be enough of a rifle loony to self-justify the purchase. Which any real rifle loony can easily do, without attempting to appear rational due to considerations like "versatility."

Welcome back!

Agreed.

Plus you have to buy new cleaning stuff for the 204.

If you buy the Savage 11, you can swap the barrel out for a 223 easily and inexpensively, usually for less than $100, if you don't like the 204.

I've owned several 204s from Remington, Ruger, and Savage. I only have one currently, a RAR-P that shoots both the 32 and 40 grain Fiocchi BT factory ammo sub-MOA. The bore may be a little rough, as the groups start to grow once I reach 50 or so rounds fired since the previous cleaning.

PS - Whittaker's currently has Howa Minis in 204 priced at $330.

Well I read the book twice and still can't find anything on the 222 Remington Magnum. I got way too many bullets to not reload for it...

Nothing on the 256 Newton either. I was despondent for a week.

Hows about the .22 SuperJet?

That ones a real humdinger.

Kirk,

The .222 Remington Magnum is right there in the previously mentioned Chapter 15. Just use any of the .223 data listed for "antiquated" 1-12 twist rifles!

Not happy I have read most of his writing. It frequently ends up costing me in either Dies, Bullets, Scopes, or worse Rifles that don't fit in the safe. Worst part is taking his work along on a long sit in the deer woods. That almost always winds up being a problem weeks or months later when some wayward used gun rack special no one else has ever thought they needed comes home........

If you read John's articles you will end up spending money, but you will spend it wisely. John has helped me spend my money several times on .204s, 6.5CMs and Burris scopes.

Had a .375 some years back. Swapped it for the more versatile .416 and never looked back.