24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
G
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
Would any of you even consider a whitetail hunt on free ranging deer with an outfitter with a draw blood policy? In other words draw blood and aren't able to recover the deer and you're done hunting, pack your stuff and leave camp. I'm not talking about a high fence operation here rather free ranging fair chase deer that are property of the state.

BP-B2

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,062
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,062

Yes.

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,867
U
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
U
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,867
Yes,
What is wrong with that policy?


"The more I am around people the better I like my dog." Mark Twain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,589
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,589
Yes. No brainer.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

WWP53D
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,622
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,622
No problem for me.

Between the OPs last two posts I'm guessing there's a story from this weekend (probably Saturday) that's not been told.

Last edited by pointer; 11/20/17.
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
G
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
So you're O.K. if in spite of your best efforts the deer is not recovered you're done?

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,867
U
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
U
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,867
Absolutely!!

Shoot better.....


"The more I am around people the better I like my dog." Mark Twain
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,263
C
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
C
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,263
I can see if from both perspectives. Sucks if you are an outfitter and you are losing game to wounding loss. Sucks if you shell out money and a freak deal happens and you lose one.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,589
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,589
I was in a camp in Saskatchewan one time where the outfit let a guy hunt again after they'd done an exhaustive search and were satisfied the animal lived.

One of the other reasons they do this is they've likely buggered one, if not more, stand locations (if we're talking whitetails) looking for a deer.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

WWP53D
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,695
J
JDK Online Content
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,695
Did you know this going in?

IC B3

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
S
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
S
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Alaska had the requirement on black bears when I lived there. You draw blood but don't recover it counts to you bag limit.


"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,286
T
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,286
I bet most outfitters didn’t start out with this rule, but after lost wounded poorly shot animal after lost wounded poorly shot animal, the need arose. Great rule in my opinion.


~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~

3-7-77
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,795
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,795
Originally Posted by gunswizard
So you're O.K. if in spite of your best efforts the deer is not recovered you're done?


Yes......because you more then likely killed that deer


Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
G
Campfire Ranger
OP Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,672
And you know this how????????????

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,179
No problem from here.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,568
S
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,568
No problem with the policy. Had a buddy that lost his archery Elk. Put his bow away and found the animal 2 days later. Recovered the head, the meat was almost gone. Bear and dogs had almost finished it off. I respected his action.


Never take life to seriously, after all ,no one gets out of it alive.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,795
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,795
A young man hunted on our property 2 seasons 2014 and 2015

Sucker shot a small buck both years and claimed to have lost them only to kill a bigger on later that same day.

This happened 2 years in a row........on both occasions he found deer #1 and snuck it home to NJ with no tag.

He's not allowed back


Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,336
G
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
G
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,336
No problem at all with it. I wouldnt allow a hunter to keep shooting up game.
GreggH

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,638
G
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
G
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,638
Only policy to have with folks like you paying to hunt....

You draw blood, you're done. Shoot better or go do a DIY. Don't blame the outfit. Blame yourself.


- Greg

Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,458
S
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,458
Yes!

And by the way..............."Long range hunters" should be held to the same standard.

When I shot long ranges I was fortunate and I never wounded or missed anything, but I pushed my luck way too far, and I think most of the "Long Range Hunting" stuff today is only adding leverage to the anti-gun anti hunting people. I "grew up" and saw it for what it was. I don't condemn it because I have no right to do so. I made a lot of long shot myself. But I never asked anyone to work for free either.

If I shot at any deer, elk antelope or anything else and I wounded it, and was unable to recover it, I would feel a moral obligation to punch my tag, and I think the same is true for any real hunter. We see the films and many hunters see them, think to themselves "I'm a good shot, so I can do that". And many can. Until something goes a little bit wrong. I have seen it many times and many shots were from friends who I KNOW are excellent marksmen, but when you push things WAAAAY out there you get into variables you can't control and sometimes can't predict.

Also keep in mind that the films you see are the ones that you are shown. You do NOT SEE the ones that get away. Most of those are erased and deleted. Or they will tell you they missed clean, but at super long range you can't know that for sure. Bullets at 800-1200 yards do not have the same effect as they do at 100-400 yards. But those animals die too. The "anti's" know it and will use it against us.

My remarks are not a condemnation but more a plea for some deep thought as to what we are doing and why. The only "why" I can think of is some kind of bragging right, not a demonstration of marksmanship. Marksmanship could be better demonstrated on targets which don't die a painful death and get away, and don't give Anti-Hunting people leverage to regulate us further. I used to shoot 1000 yards a lot and sometimes I still do, but for the last 20 years or so I have had a policy that I will not shoot over 500 meters at game, and in 95% of the cases I won't shoot over 350 because there is no reason to. I am not such a poor hunter that I can't get closer. I turned down a 437 yard shot at an elk just 5 days ago. The body angle was wrong and the shooting position was a bit unstable. I am pretty sure I could have done it, but pretty sure to me is NOT the same thing as SURE!

Now as a man with MANY years of experience as a guide I would not make a "draw blood rule" hard and fast. There would probably be exceptions. But that should the the call of the guide, and it should be final. If for example, you had a scope failure or a gun malfunction, and you didn't try some shot that was unreasonable or risky, the guide might make a judgement call and let you try again with another gun, but it should be his call. It's his time after he does his job correctly the 1st time, so a 2nd time is all time he gives you as a gift, not something you paid for. Demanding any time from any worker for free is not reasonable. If your boss wanted to have you give him 1-4 days of your work for free would you do it? If a carpenter was paid to build a shed and did so, and did it well, with everything done exactly as ordered would it be reasonable to demand another shed for free?

These things should be discussed BEFORE you make a contract. If you and he can't agree, don't hire him. It may be best for you to go it alone if such things are not to your liking. There's nothing wrong with your opinion anymore than there is with his.

But when money is paid it's no longer just opinions. Now it's a contract, and specific performance is outlined both by the guide and by you too.

Talk over the details first and write them down. Ask the outfitter and guide if he is selling you X many days of his time OR if he is selling you an opportunity for a good shot at game. If he agrees to sell you the days then you have reason to want another chance and another and another, until the days are used up
If on the other hand he is selling the opportunity and you get that opportunity and mess up the shot, you'd have no reason to complain.
If a guide tells you to shoot and you are not comfortable with that shot tell him so. And THAT should be discussed in full before the hunt. Any guide that tells you to shoot and then want to quit you if you don't shoot is not a man you should hire. I have had clients hold their fire when I thought the shot was easy, but that's what I was hired for and if the client holds fire I know he's the boss and that's what he paid me for. I don't get to vote and I accept that. He can use up the time I sold to him as He wants.

But would an animal and let it get away........now there is one more animal I can't guide the next hunter to. That's not the same as holding fire.
When blood is drawn the guide is the boss, not the hunter. Ask questions and get references. You want a guide that is good at his job and one of those jobs is tracking and following blood trails. But most importantly, practice your shooting and take shot you KNOW you can make.


Last edited by szihn; 11/20/17.
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
682 members (160user, 12344mag, 10gaugemag, 1Akshooter, 10Glocks, 75 invisible), 3,102 guests, and 1,434 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,679
Posts18,399,581
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.120s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 0.9009 MB (Peak: 1.0312 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 21:18:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS