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johnw Offline OP
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Two adjacent big box stores have 2 different CCI loads. I am familiar with the 17gr vmax but the 17gr TNT is new to me. Any experience with it here?

I also see the 20 gr gamepoint online but have seen none of it for sale. Love to hear aboot it as well.


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johnw Offline OP
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Also, it seems that the new vmaxes have a black tip...


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The TNT is just a hollow point.
The Vmax will expand better.
The 20 grainers are a tougher slug and better on tougher targets.

Try em all to see what your rifle likes...

Personally, I feel all rimfires are all about precision. None of them are .223s. Whether you are trying to head shoot a tree squirrel at 100 yards or slip one behind the shoulder of a Coyote, the 17MR is all about accuracy.

In a good rifle there is no reason to settle for anthing less than solid 1 MOA 5 shot groups or better. If you find a load thats crazy accurate in your rifle go back and buy as much as you can, preferably in the same lot number.

Most folks usually see the best accuracy in the 17HMR with some flavor of 17g Vmax..And YES various brands and lots shoot different even though I believe they are all still loaded by CCI.

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I've been buying that schit that they make for the Savage auto. It's more faster.




Travis


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johnw,

The 20-grain Gamepoint is designed for people who want to shoot edible game with the .17 HMR, but works for larger varmints too. The bullet's both tougher and slower than other .17 HMR loads, so results in less meat damage.

The hollow-point loads, as somebody already noticed, don't expand as violently on small varmints like ground squirrels and prairie dogs as the plastic-tips. The HP's also don't shoot as flat, and drift more in the wind, than plastic-tips.

As Travis noted, the CCI A17 ammo for the Savage A17 autoloader (a plastic-tip 17-grain) is noticeably higher velocity than the standard 17-grain plastic tip load. The published ballistics say its only 100 fps faster (2650 fps vs. 2550) but that must be in the autoloader. In bolt actions it averages around 250-300 fps faster, which makes a noticeable difference both in trajectory and splat-factor. In my CZ 452 the A17 shoots to exactly the same place at 100 yards as the standard 17-grain ammo, with the same accuracy, but is a LOT flatter at 200, and drifts noticeably less in the wind as well.

The downside is the A17 stuff is usually more expensive. I generally shoot the A17's at prairie dogs and the standard-velocity plastic tips at ground squirrels, since PD's are larger and usually shot at longer ranges.


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I use CCI Gamepoints with the 20 grain bullets. I've used them on several raccoons, several crows, a bunch of rabbits and at least a couple of groundhogs. All died, mostly DRT though one groundhog did make it under my porch before expiring and I gave one of the raccoons a second shot, not that it was going anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
johnw,

The 20-grain Gamepoint is designed for people who want to shoot edible game with the .17 HMR, but works for larger varmints too. The bullet's both tougher and slower than other .17 HMR loads, so results in less meat damage.

The hollow-point loads, as somebody already noticed, don't expand as violently on small varmints like ground squirrels and prairie dogs as the plastic-tips. The HP's also don't shoot as flat, and drift more in the wind, than plastic-tips.

As Travis noted, the CCI A17 ammo for the Savage A17 autoloader (a plastic-tip 17-grain) is noticeably higher velocity than the standard 17-grain plastic tip load. The published ballistics say its only 100 fps faster (2650 fps vs. 2550) but that must be in the autoloader. In bolt actions it averages around 250-300 fps faster, which makes a noticeable difference both in trajectory and splat-factor. In my CZ 452 the A17 shoots to exactly the same place at 100 yards as the standard 17-grain ammo, with the same accuracy, but is a LOT flatter at 200, and drifts noticeably less in the wind as well.

The downside is the A17 stuff is usually more expensive. I generally shoot the A17's at prairie dogs and the standard-velocity plastic tips at ground squirrels, since PD's are larger and usually shot at longer ranges.


MD,

Has Savage worked the bugs out those A17 jobs or have you not messed with one?

The thought of automatic HMR fire appeals to me for some reason. Plus I know shrap would love it.




Travis


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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Target Sports........HMR.......17M2 in stock also

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/17-hmr-ammo-c-198.aspx


T R U M P W O N !

U L T R A M A G A !

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
johnw,

The 20-grain Gamepoint is designed for people who want to shoot edible game with the .17 HMR, but works for larger varmints too. The bullet's both tougher and slower than other .17 HMR loads, so results in less meat damage.

The hollow-point loads, as somebody already noticed, don't expand as violently on small varmints like ground squirrels and prairie dogs as the plastic-tips. The HP's also don't shoot as flat, and drift more in the wind, than plastic-tips.

As Travis noted, the CCI A17 ammo for the Savage A17 autoloader (a plastic-tip 17-grain) is noticeably higher velocity than the standard 17-grain plastic tip load. The published ballistics say its only 100 fps faster (2650 fps vs. 2550) but that must be in the autoloader. In bolt actions it averages around 250-300 fps faster, which makes a noticeable difference both in trajectory and splat-factor. In my CZ 452 the A17 shoots to exactly the same place at 100 yards as the standard 17-grain ammo, with the same accuracy, but is a LOT flatter at 200, and drifts noticeably less in the wind as well.

The downside is the A17 stuff is usually more expensive. I generally shoot the A17's at prairie dogs and the standard-velocity plastic tips at ground squirrels, since PD's are larger and usually shot at longer ranges.


John,
Agreed on all the above.
A question- does Winchester in fact load their own 17HMR or does CCI even load those as well?

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I did some work for a friend on a Volquartsen that another guy had restocked. After I finished, I tried several different kinds of .17 HMR and it shot the A 17 ammo into the smallest 10-shot groups that I have ever seen.


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Travis,

A local friend has one of the A17 rifles and it works great, very accurate and reliable.

His only problem is that he was totally unaware that the rifle required the A17 ammo to function correctly, so bought some standard stuff. Of course it didn't work, but I helped him out by trading some A17 for the ammo he had. Now, however, he bitches about the price of A17 ammo.

He buys guns on impulse all the time, without doing any research--so of course sells guns all the time. Eileen and I have benefited now and then....


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jk16,

I know Winchester produced their .17 HMR ammo a few years ago, instead of having CCI make it, but dunno about now. Stuff changes in the ammo business all the time!


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Johnw: Settled on the Hornady 17 grain V-Max ammo for all my 17 HMR Varmint Rifles (and one Smith & Wesson extremely accurate revolver!) as it was the most all around accurate, lethal, available and affordable ammo.
Over the years Varminting partners still give me some of their ammo to "try" in my guns but haven't been persuaded by any of it to change as yet.
Did shoot a friends Varminter that he had "switched" to the A-17 ammo and it did well in the field but again its "pricey" so no motivation to go there.
Best of luck to you but be sure and give the Hornady 17 grain V-Max ammo in your gun.
Hold into the wind
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When I got my HMR some years ago (Savage 93), I tried every load I could find. In MY gun, the Winchester 17g Vmax stuff stood out not only for accuracy, but velocity consistency.

The general "knowledge" of the time was that all 17HMR cartridges were loaded in one or two plants: CCI /Hornady?, and only packaging was different in other brands. Delving further into why the Winchester stuff (yes, Hornady bullet) shot better in my gun, I dismantled a representative sample of all the loads I had tried.

The Winchester stuff had shiny ball powder. All others exhibited flake powder. This allowed me to conclude this stuff was not from the same plant(s). To this day, I do not think this ammo is "better". Here's why:

When I got my gun (as a gift, so no initial outlay of cash), I was somewhat disappointed in the accuracy considering all the lavish praise I'd seen and heard about this cartridge. With the gun obtained free, I did each and every improvement on the gun that I could imagine and/or afford: optics, bottom metal, glass bedding, bridge mount, custom trigger, etc., etc., etc. I did see results for my efforts, but not to the degree I'd hoped for. I kept hearing that "The CZ guns shoot better than any of the rest: If you are not happy with the accuracy in your heavily modified Savage, get a CZ!"

I had also come to the conclusion that the fault most probably did not rest with the guns, but the ammo: this was at first and for always a hunting cartridge. With this purpose in mind, no development was probably ever done toward target accuracy (more like .22 Magnum marketing strategy and development, and apart from the fine and expensive effort done toward .22 Long Rifle target ammo).

And so, In further experimentation, I invited each friend owning a .17 to come shoot for a day. Three Savages, two Marlins and a CZ showed up. We shot our own guns, and we shot each others' guns. We shot our ammo, and we shot each others' ammo. None of this 50 yard nonsense. All done at 100 yards off a hard bench in a heated cabin on identical targets. Zero wind that day. The guys who claimed, "Half-inch groups all day!" from their guns received gracious silence from the other participants when true results came in. Yes, there were half-inch groups. No, they did not happen even a measurable period of a day. There was a striking preponderance of groups that measured 1"-1.5".

The "winner"? A plain-jane, unmodified, blued, fat barrel Marlin with a maple stock, Tasco rings and a Bushnell scope. It belonged to girlfriend of the guy with the CZ: He gave it to her when he "upgraded". Hornady 17g Vmax ammo is what it liked. It didn't win by much, but neither did the CZ/Leupold rig come in third by much.

I'm convinced now, that if we were willing to pay 25-30 dollars a box for match-grade .17HMR (commensurate with price disparity of Eley Green Tag as compared to CCI Mini Mags in Long Rifle), we'd have those "Half-inch all day!" guns.

It ain't happenin'.


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johnw Offline OP
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Due to am acquired heart irrhythmia, I now find it difficult to shoot groups. Still I have a couple of 5 shot groups at 100 that are about 5/8" using the CCI/vmax ammo. The A17 stuff hereabouts is only a bit more than the Vmax round. Only reason I haven't tried it yet is that i prefer the plastic 50 round box. I will buy some and shoot it.

I'd bet I'm not the first to ask, but why didn't they load everything like the A17?


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I like the Hornady 17gr. Vmax rounds myself. They are wicked on Jackrabbits and Rockchucks. I figure anything inside 150yards is in big trouble, beyond that there had better not be much wind! Kept within reasonable (75 to 125) yard range and the 17HMR may just be the best rimfire varmint round ever conceived. FWIW: Midsouth has it on sale for $8.69/box and had 3.95 shipping on orders over $100 a few days ago when I got a couple bricks.


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I'd opt for the faster A17 ammo and buy it from CDNN for $40 per 200 or from Wal-Mart for $50 per 200.

It works well in my Anschutz, Marlin, and Savage rifles.

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Horn. 17 gr/


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In my CZ 455, the Hornady 17gr VMAX ammo (at least the lot I have) produces the smallest groups although the Federal V-Shok 17gr HP is so close that it could be a toss-up. The CCI A-17 and the Win Varmint HV 17 gr Polytips were the least accurate with both producing 5 shots groups of ~1.0 to 1.5" at 60 meters. In my CZ 455, the A-17 ammo's velocity is only ~ 100 fps faster than the standard Hornady 17gr V-Max at 2706 fps vs. 2625 fps, respectively, and those are averages of many rounds measured with my Oehler chronograph.

But my 17 HM2 CZ 452 shooting Eley ammo loaded with 17gr VMax bullets is so much more accurate that it's my favorite, and I don't miss the extra 500 fps provided by the 17HMR. So, if someone wants a nice CZ455 in 17HMR just let me know.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Travis,

A local friend has one of the A17 rifles and it works great, very accurate and reliable.

His only problem is that he was totally unaware that the rifle required the A17 ammo to function correctly, so bought some standard stuff. Of course it didn't work, but I helped him out by trading some A17 for the ammo he had. Now, however, he bitches about the price of A17 ammo.

He buys guns on impulse all the time, without doing any research--so of course sells guns all the time. Eileen and I have benefited now and then....


Interesting.

Local shop says same. I see one in my future.


Thanks,
Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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