Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Accuracy potential: Remington vs Mauser

Here's a hypothetical situation that I'd be curious to hear opinions about. If someone wanted an exceptionally accurate custom barreled hunting rifle how much difference in accuracy would be seen between a commercial FN 98 Mauser and a Remington 700? I'm not talking about a varmint or target rifle, just a hunting rifle that is so accurate that you can't wipe the smile off of your face.

For the sake of discussion let's assume it would be a .270 Winchester with a high quality custom barrel in a #2 or #3 contour, a good trigger, well done bedding and good handloads. Maximum scope magnification wouldn't go over 10x. I'm thinking about building a rifle like this. I want something exceptionally accurate which points to a Remington perhaps but I have a bit of a preference for Mauser actions in general. For a target rifle I'd take a Remington over a Mauser every time. But, for a hunting rifle does using a Mauser action give up much of the accuracy potential of the barrel?

haha this should be good....

I have to admit that I cringed a bit when I posted it. I've had nicely accurate factory rifles from Remington as well as Mausers but I don't have the experience to know about these actions when custom barrels are instaĺled.

Well, anecdotally speaking, have several vintage mausers capable of touching 3 at 100 yards. Perhaps that has little statistical value...:)

Am not quite sure that can be as easily duplicated as with a 700...but it can be done!

I appreciate the anecdote. The experience of others is a helpful thing.

One Half-Moon barrel and the rest are Douglas.

I guess a good mauser smith within driving distance would be more of an issue to me than the particular brand of a good barrel

I think it would come down to the skill of whoever puts it together.


Okie John

I'm in Canada where gunsmiths are fewer and farther between. There is a good one about 2 hours away otherwise I will be shipping things.

No.

Yes.

Years ago, when I was just getting into custom barreled guns, I had a very informative conversation with a national quality (now deceased) rifle builder. He said if he did everything right building a rifle on a Rem 700 action, he might expect .5 MOA. Do everything just as well on Win 70, and he would expect .75 MOA. The design makes the difference, and I think a Mauser would be even worse. The action twists more, the recoil is transmitted more back into the action, the lock time is slower.

I appreciate Mauser actions as much as the next guy--my last several builds have been based on them. But if my goal was a gun that was "schit eating grin" accurate, they would be about the last place I would start.

I have an FN 98 commercial action in 6.5x55 swede( x-caliber stainless barrel). With quickly developed hand loads(didn't take time to work with bullet seat depth) it shoots just under an inch at a 100 with 140 gr. Nosler partitions. If the action face has been trued and a good barrel is twisted on and the action is solid in a good stock you're not going to notice any practical difference between the two for hunting purposes. I think there are a number of gunsmiths who say Rem.s are more accurate because they would prefer to work with them, not necessarily because they have proven Mausers to be inferior.

Rem 700

I have had more than a half-dozen rifles built on Mauser actions, and I still two and my daughter has one. My .257 AI is on a Mexican Mauser action, as is my daughter's 7mm-08. Both will shoot 1/2-inch three-shot groups with loads that they like. The .257 AI has a Krieger barrel and the 7mm-08 has a Douglas Premium barrel. The third one is a .404 Jeffrey built on an InterArms Mark X action. It easily shoots one-inch three-shot groups from a good bench rest--with open sights. All three of these rifles were built by the same gunsmith who is literally a wizard when it comes to building on Mauser actions.

I have also had several rifles built on both short and long Remington 700 actions, but I no longer own any and have no plans to acquire any more. YMMV.

Locktime and lack of a good trigger handicaps the pure accuracy of a Mauser. Not a problem for me as I think a true MOA rifle will do all I want it to do as 300yds is my personal limit.

My first "custom" rifle started out with a VZ-24 military action and a Midway 35 whelen barrel. A friend of a friend chambered it as a 35 whelen AI, it struggled to put three shots into 1 1/2" at 100 yds, with groups in the 4+" range typical. Needless to say, I wasn't happy. Through a sequence of events I came into a set of 350 Rigby dies and the loan of a 350 Rigby reamer. I sent the gun off to a real smith to have it re-chambered. I faced the action, re-chambered the barrel and cut a new crown. The gun subsequently struggle to shoot worse than 2" at 100 yds and it's best groups were 1/2". This from a sloppy miliatary action, two stage military trigger and a 2 1/2X scope.

Personally I wouldn't want to the added weight of a mauser action for a .270, but with a good barrel and good gunsmith, I would expect for all intents and purposes a 98 Mauser to be as accurate as a Remington 700 for a hunting rifle.

Nearly all my custom rifles are made on Mauser actions. And all are accurate with some being freakishly accurate.
The FN Mausers made in the 40s, 50s and 60s were excellent rifles but you must remember the barrels were made at that time too. Some were OK, some very good. The barrel making capability of today is WAAAAAY out in front of most commercial manufacturing of the 60s. So asking "Remington VS Mauser" is not really the right question.

The actions don't shoot.
The barrels shoot!

So given the same barrel quality in both guns, they would be equally accurate. If you look at a M700 of say 1990 vintage and compare it to an FN Mauser of say `950 vintage, even money says the Remington will out-shoot the Mauser, because the 1990 barrels are made to tighter tolerances then the 1950 barrels overall. There are exceptions on both sides, but they are just that.........exceptions.

The Remington has a faster lock time, but that feature is a bit over rated. If your squeeze is straight and to the rear and you have good form, lock time is not much of a factor in accuracy. It can be a slight edge for bench rest shooters, but even then we don't see all the records set or broken with guns with "the fastest lock time"

The Mauser is far superior in it's extractor, and in it's bolt handle (one piece instead of being soldered on)

The Remington triggers are a good design, but often made from low grade materials which is why they have had so much legal trouble with them, over and over and over. Mauser military triggers can be re-worked for decent pulls, but it's easier to replace them with a Timney or some such after market trigger for most men. To be fair, if we replace the Mauser trigger with an aftermarket trigger we'd have to give the same trade to the Remington.

The controlled round feed is the gold standard in all bolt action everywhere in the world. Here the Mauser, (and the copies of it's extractor, 1917 Enfield, M70 Winchester, M77 Ruger Mk2 and so on) leave the Remington in the dust.

In fact, as a gunsmith with about 50 years of experience, I can tell you that the Remington M721, M722, M700 and M600/660s all suffer from the weakest extractor ever put in any bolt gun anywhere at any time. That's not to say they are all failures, but just to say everyone eases are stronger. I have replaced more Remington M700 extractors in my 50 years then all other actions of center fire rifles combined.
But these are reliability issues, not accuracy issues.

Comparing a full custom build made on a Mauser to a factory Remington is not a valid comparison. That's because you get to select a high grade barrel one at a time on any custom rifle, where as the production rifle has a production barrel in it. MOST Remington are very accurate. I have had to work on a LOT of Remington for a LOT of reasons, but barrel quality is not often one of those reasons.

I think it was about 15 years ago, a fellow won the 1,000 yard national prone competition, with a .30 cal magnum on a Mauser action... Kind of a blast from the past. But obviously they can shoot well if handled well.

I do like the Remington action a lot, but if you like a Mauser, then use a Mauser. You're not going to shoot poorly on big game because of that choice.

Guy

I Forgot, I had an Interarms Mark X with a stainless Shilen barrel in .270 back in 1987 that also shot under an inch with factory Rem. 130 gr.
Rem. is boring, pick the Mauser, put a quality barrel on it and go forth and kill critters.

A round action (Rem 700 clone) especially with a smaller port is going to be more rigid, more symetrical and EASIER to make shoot great. It will take much more care and skill to get a Mauser to shoot as good and I don't think the end potential is as good. If it was, you would see them in some of the accuracy disciplines. With one exception, I have never seen a Mauser action at a rifle match. I also don't think there is any need for a hunting rifle to shoot much better than 1 MOA. How many of us really shoot far enough that this matters? Sure, it is fun and nice to brag about and to some degree a confidence builder. When I put together a long range hunting rifle I use quality 700 style actions with the accompanying excellent triggers, scope rails and stocks that abound in this configuration. I also quit load testing once I hit .5 MOA as I feel practice is more important that chasing the holy grail of accuracy. I only get about 600-800 rounds out of my 6.5-284 barrels. I hate burning them up looking for 1/4 inch groups when 1/2 inch groups are more than good enough.

You said exactly what I was about to say.

Also, the only extractor I ever had fail was in a Rem 700 Classic 35 Whelen.