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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
for those of us that do off season shooting and practice...
one of the things I enjoy doing, is developing loads that won't wear out a barrel...
Setting targets at 100 yds, but use smaller targets...
Plenty of sites where you can down load targets to print...
I like downloading NRA match targets, where they have available something that is sized at 100 yds, to look like what the target would appear at 300, 400, 500 and out to 800 yards....
Currently been adding to the economy of that, by using a load in a 223 that will duplicate 22 Mag velocities... is much more accurate... and sorta in the price range of 22 Mag ammo...
7.5 grains of Unique... Small Pistol or Small Rifle primer...
MV in the 2000 fps range... depending on Barrel length, and bullet weight... and primer used..
50 or 55 grain bulk bullets....one can order Speer Bullets in 50 TNT, 52 HP and 55 SP.. for right at 1000 bullets at $100 for a box of 1000....
The 50 TNT and 52 HP are especially accurate... the 55 grainer is more an AR Blast Real Fast kind of bullet...
my shooting is with a bolt action, single shots each time...
Low recoil.. real easy on both brass and your barrel's Throat and doesn't heat it up very much unless the shooter just gets carried away....
and a pound of Unique lasts for about 950 shots...and is about $20 a pound around here..
less in bulk.....
Recoil is nil and the blast is pretty darn low also...
especially in a varmint rifle with a 26 inch varmint weight barrel
taping pennies to a sheet of paper, using shipping tape also makes a little bitty target to shoot at...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Shooting pennies is going to cut into your powder savings.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822 |
Shooting pennies is going to cut into your powder savings. It just means that it costs him $0.17 per shot rather than $0.16 per shot. Thanks, John! Ed
"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,515
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,515 |
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
Not really... you have to give credit to boredom and winter rains... and throw in Cabin Fever... Varmint season starts coming along in March.... That is just a short 18 months of rainy weather and cabin fever...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
Shooting pennies is going to cut into your powder savings. It just means that it costs him $0.17 per shot rather than $0.16 per shot. Thanks, John! Ed Not when I miss... those are still 16 cents! Quarters are a lot easier to hit, but are a lot more expensive per shot especially when you hit'em.... and your welcome Ed!...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,793
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Good stuff, John. Thanks for being on the fire.
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,908
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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So why now Unique and not Blue Dot?
"I was born in the log cabin I helped my grandfather build"
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
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Just an alternate source...
I play with this stuff, when I am bored, indoors, experiencing winter cabin fever...
When It isn't raining and I'm not tied up with other things, play hookey and go to the range....and see how this stuff works out...
I'm always getting requests to see if I have done any work with this powder or that powder..
Have been working with Steel lately also... and Universal is on the request list...
when I find results worth sharing, then I do so...
If not worth sharing, due to lack of accuracy and consistency, then I don't bother...
beats watching TV constantly like my wife spends her time doing...when she at work at the hospital.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 580
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Seafire, have you ever sent your .223 Blue Dot, or Unique loads to a pressure testing facility?
I'd be real curious as to what kind of pressures your loads are running.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
Ya know, for those that need to.. I'd recommend that...
but haven't seen the need to, using one's head...
a reference point is from Cast Bullet manuals...and jacketed bullets aren't going to jack up pressures that high...
When I share stuff, it has been worked up further than the max loads I list..
as with a lot of these types of pistol/shotgun powders... your chronograph will show no real increase in velocity, but the extraction will start showing resistance..
you learning doing this, there are some powders you learn to trust in consistency.. and some you learn not to touch...
shotgun and pistol powders is not all I mess with off season...
been playing with 3031 as of late also...
but if people are worried about anything I wouldn't recommend playing around with it..
that is the shooters individual choice.. and their own responsibility..
all I ever guarantee is that the loads I share are safe in my firearms...
Naythsayers, ( not saying you are one) always jump on that pressure testing stuff right off the bat...
do the same shooters really know what the pressures are on the book loads they use?
evidently not.. because anyone hand loading enough has had loads way below book max, that blows primers and more in their individual rifles...
if this stuff is confusing or vexing to someone, they should leave it alone...simple as that..
you are working with stuff that explodes...works fine for those who know what they are doing... who also have to know they accept certain potential risks along with that..
but managing it and using one's head... eliminates a lot of that issue...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Mar 2011
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I'm using 50gn V-max and RedDot for the same thing.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,793
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
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John, I may have asked you this before but wanted to ask again. I have a TON of 204 Ruger brass and am interested in using 40 grain bullets to create some 22 mag velocity loads. Would you recommend this or should I stay away from this caliber for this purpose?
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
Cliff,
When I had a 204 Barrel on a Ruger Action, I did this sort of stuff with it all the time...
due to brass availability, I pulled the barrel and went with a 20 Practical done by a gunsmith that did a couple of rifles for us when I was doing the Veteran Christmas Projects... strictly due to the Practical is done by just necking down the neck of 223 with a neck sizing die..
Considering what I am doing here with Unique.. max load for so a 50 grain bullet is about 11 grains of Unique...7.5 grains is way below max load....
Take a 204 Ruger, the neck is a smaller diameter, but the case is a little bigger... then consider you'd be doing this with a smaller grain bullet.. say a 32 to 40.
To duplicate a 22 Mag velocity, you could copy the 7.5 grains of Unique load... its all load technique at the bench to not double charge...
Actually my favorite bullet in 20 caliber is the Hornady 24 grain NTX, a lead free plastic tipped bullet.. sadly they have made them off an on.. don't know if that is a marketing dept thing or not.. but its as long a the 40 V Max...
I enjoyed that bullet launched at about 2000 fps out of the 204 or the 20 Practical...
if you wanted to goose up its velocity to WARP 9... it would safely launch at 4750 fps with a load of RL 10, or H 322...
cheers and best regards!
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,793
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 15,793 |
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
Any time Cliff....you're in the preferential treatment crowd anyway...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,730
Campfire Tracker
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Seafire, have you ever sent your .223 Blue Dot, or Unique loads to a pressure testing facility?
I'd be real curious as to what kind of pressures your loads are running. I use John's Blue Dot loads in my .223 for most of my shooting anymore. I also only neck size and haven't had to FL size in years. For a load that gets me MOA that is all the data I need. If I was even close to normal pressures every few reloadings would need a FL sizing and trim.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 125
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What have you heard about IMR's new line...Red, Green, Blue, Target, and Unequal? I keep seeing them on the shelves, for the same price as rifle powders. Wonder how they would perform in similar reduced rifle applications?
Shooter's Edge FFL in Western CO
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,583 |
I've tried IMR's Blue, using Alliant's Blue Dot load data I developed...
I didn't find IMR's Blue, for this kind of application, as consistent and predictable as Blue Dot...
Velocities were erratic....which I translated as pressures spiking some, or depressing at other times..
and that was playing with it, in the 223, 22.250, 243, 260 and 30/06....
in the 223 for example, 13.5 grains with a 55 grain bullet is what I recommend as max with Blue Dot...
anything over 10 grains with a 55 grainer with IMR Blue, is all I will personally use...
when the pound I picked up of IMR Blue is gone... I won't buy any more of it, as it doesn't fit any of my needs...
others may have different experiences than mine...but overall I wasn't impressed...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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