Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Youth longer range hunting caliber?

I'm looking to find a good caliber/gun for my son (11 years old) to start deer and antelope hunting with that we can reload for and allow for the gun to "grow" with him.
My son is a prairie dog killing machine with his 223s and 22-250 out to 350 yards and he took his first deer this year with his 223.
I'm just looking for something that he can use now and then I can reload a bit stouter as he grows.
Any suggestions? I'm considering 243 win, 6x284, 6xc, yet any other good considerations
Thank you for the help in advance.

Ruger American in 6mm Creedmoor. Shoot it until the barrel is toast then throw it away.

Or better yet build him a quality rifle that he will never outgrow. In 6mm Creedmoor

243 with 100 gr. Class bullets

6.5 Creedmoor, he is getting bigger every day. Bought my son a 7mm 08 when he was 11. Used light bullets, he hunts with it 20 years later.

6.5 CM in an AR10 style with a tele-stock (it grows with him)

Or a 6.5 Swede on a nice Mauser action.

Or a M70 Winchester, or M77 Ruger in 270 Winchester.

He's 11. Long range work requires practice. A 243 or 6 Creed would be my choice, and I go with a Tikka T3x or, better yet, a Barret Fieldcraft.

I hunt deer and antelope every year and guide for antelope. I have seen a LOT of hunters succeed and fail. A 6mm is fantastic for deer and antelope.

I can hunt them with any cartridge I want and use a 105 bthp from a 243. I may switch to the 6 Creed when my 243 barrels are gone.

Practice, bullet choice, optics and optics mount are just as important.

6.5 creedmoor , I can't think of a better cartridge - nothing can run with the Creedmoor , from varmints to big game to LR steel NOTHING can run with the Creedmoor ..

GOD I love the Creedmoor !!!

If you don't buy him a Creedmoor - I'll buy him a Creedmoor ...

6.5 CM or perhaps a 7-08?

I started both my boys shooting long range with my custom 243. I bought my youngest who is 11, a tikka t3 x 243. He bought his own SS 3x9 scope with money he worked for. That combo with 95 grain nosler ballistic tips shoot well under an inch. He dings my small! 6" x 12" steel pretty easily at 500yds. You want to make sure that recoil and noise don't cause a flinch. Both of my boys shoot my 222 a lot prone to work on form and trigger pull. Again, no recoil and good ear protection. My oldest boy now shoots a 308. Still not much recoil. Due to good form,no bad habits, and shooting a lot,they shoot better than most men.

I'd lean towards a 6.5mm. The 6mm's are more fun to shoot, yes, but when you are talking 300-400yds with some less-than-perfect angles, I prefer the extra assurance of a 120-140gr bullet that is designed for the job.

6.5 "something" is the sweet spot for BC and low recoil.

What’s the twist rate on the 22-250? If it will stabilize a 75gr ELD, load some up and press on. I shot my buck this year at 410 yards with my 8” twist 22-250 barrel pushing a 75gr Amax. DRT. Shot this 5 shot group at 710 yards with same load.

John

I would like to have a 1 in 8 Tikka 22-250. Just for the hell of it.

Ruger RPR in 6mm Creedmoor. The rifle will easily adjust for growth.

Teach the kid to “hunt”..... shooting should be a given

I’ve got a daughter coming up now and after my experience with my 6.5 Creed, that will be what I’ll start her hunting deer with. They are cheap to shoot, buck the wind, and recoil is soft.

260 Remington in.a savage model !cdnnsports.com has them for $299 after rebate .I have two of them and kids love them .It shoot one hole groups with.lapua bullets .Every kid and woman that shot.mine loved it and shot them awesome .You.can.make brass from 308 or get new brass at starline .It's way better than the 243 ! I am reboring my 243 rifles into 260s !

Interesting.... In what way is it "way better" than the 243?

.243 or a 6.5 Creedmoor. You couldn't go wrong with either.

7 -08 . Big enough for elk, moose, but very mild recoil.

My 15 year old son has no issues shooting a 7lb 7/08... but my 13 year old daughter doesn’t like it much. She prefers the 8lb .260.

No flies on the .243 or .260.... if you want your kid to kill deer and go long on steel.

Creed is the easy answer.... if you want the above, and don’t mind your kid wearing skinny jeans and a man-bun.

.25-06 is great.... if you want your kid to grow-up and drive a Camaro while sporting a mullet.

.257 Weatherby is even better... if you want your kid to grow up to hunt elk in a T-Shirt and Crocs.

6 Creed, and I was not a 6mm fan until this fall....

I got my daughter a compact 7-08 and started her on 120 Ballistic Tips running about 2500 FPS. Easy shooting and very accurate. It’ll easy grow into an elk rifle if she so desires and grows into it. Would have been just as happy with a 260 or 6.5 CM. Can’t pick a bad one really. Starting them with the light loads so they enjoy cranking rounds makes all the difference in my opinion.

Does this mean HuntSonora shoots a '06?

LMAO. He looks good in a mullet.

Lots of good suggestions already mentioned but i'll throw another punch for the .260 Rem. My daughter started shooting the .260 rem at the age of 9 and is now 17 and still shooting it. We load a Sierra 120gr Pro Hunter in front of a stout load of H4350 and she has taken some nice deer with this combo and several out past 300yds. The rifle/load has a low to very mild recoil, shoots flat and drops deer like a lighting bolt hit them.

......................................Well imo, the 6.5 caliber (not the 264 Win Mag, 26 Nosler or 6.5/300 Wby,,, LOL) is the best all around choice for youuts of the age you mention. Lower recoil, great bullet BCs for long range velocity, energy retentions as well as great bullet SDs. Downrange, they out perform the 308 and even the 7/08 a little in all depts.

The Creedmoor is the big craze going on now and would make an ideal choice. You also have the 260 Rem and the 6.5/284 with a little more power. Either one of those three would fill the bill nicely and they are rounds that your son should not be able to outgrow.

I do not own a 6.5 yet but know a few that do. Not taking anything away from the Creed, I am becoming a real big fan of the 6.5/284 because of its inherently accurate case design. From what I read, many semi custom and custom rifle builders praise the 6.5/284 and build rifles for this cartridge.

Here is a little eye opener.......Go on google and type in,,,,, Ron Spomer 6.5/284.......IIRC, that is how you link to his article. He did a nice piece about the 6.5/284 and compared it to other rounds as well....If I was mistaken about how to get to his article, I'll re-post the correction.

Yep...It is there. Article called..............6.5/284 Norma Best All=Round Cartridge by Ron Spomer

COWARD!!! DADDY MESSING WITH HIS LITTLE GIRL RIGHT! CHILD MOLESTING PIECE OF SCHIT

What.......?

X2....

Not sure if Trystan is off his meds, or just consumed his first legal beer, but he certainly pegged out the crazy meter.

The 6mm Creedmoor is a lot of fun. It could almost be called ‘recoiless’. Not that it’s any improvement over the old 243, but if you handload, I would go for more modern case for it slight advantages.

I went with the RPR and a Timney. Can’t say I’ve had any more fun shooting with any previous rifle, except for maybe the browning BAR Safari in 243.

"Not sure if Trystan is off his meds, or just consumed his first legal beer, but he certainly pegged out the crazy meter."

I'll vote former.

Its Trystan....so why did anyone pay attention... nothing to see here so move along...

Back on topic...

older I've gotten, I've sure learned in the last 20 something years...

I didn't need an 06....

but with buying a 260 in 1998, and using a 243 a little more... ( bought my first in about 1990)

between a 243 and 260, you sure can cover a lot of ground....the old from Mice to Moose statement...

or the same can be said for the two cartridges that Hornady is trying to reinvent the wheel with..

the Creedmoors...6mm or 6.5mm..

6mm bullets from 55 to 115 grains available..

6.5 mm bullets from 85 to 160 grains available...

and recoil is sure a lot less than my old beloved Model 70 in 30/06....

If someone wants to go nostalgic, down overlook a 250 Savage, a 257 Roberts, a 6mm Remington or a 6.5 x 55...
over even a 7 x 57....

Having burned through two 243 bbls despite being being careful not to cook them, the shape of the Creed case suggests it should be a big improvement over the 243 when it comes to bbl longevity.




Sorry, I didn't know........but I do now.

Where did this guy come from anyway?.........

Under a bridge somewhere.... he’s a troll and a piece of $h!t

I've got half your plane ticket covered if you still want to participate in the big shootout you challenged everybody to....

You still in?

And Trythtan wonders why guys fugg with him...

No quarter...

Speaking of coward....

6.5 Creedmoor. Load it down at first then go full bore when he’s ready. It’ll take any hooved game animal in North America with the right bullets and hardly kicks at all.

I’ve owned and used the .260 and 6.5x284 for years and would definitely recommend the Creed.

Remember children's needs are different in as far as length of pull, and a lighter trigger.

Most children will need a length of pull that is around 11" so that they can see through the scope easily. Children's fingers are not as strong as an adult's, so replace and adjust triggers accordingly.

Range time to a child is as good as hunting with their dad.

A 22/250 loaded with 60g Nosler partitions is a dragon slayer, they may never want more. Then a 243 with 100g Hornady BTSP or Flat base, or a Nosler partition will take out large frame deer at 300 yards with ease.

There is a lot of difference between an 11 year old, 13 year old, and at 15.

A common brand of factory rifle, where you can get replacement stocks, cut them and fit to the youngster as they grow will keep them and you interested in shooting.

We used Thompson Center Contenders in 30/30 and 7/30 waters with some of the nephews, they are light, unreal accurate, and they are easily handled by a youngster due to length and weight.

We grew up poor, dad had a rule, no children shooting full size guns till we were 15, then many rifles and shotguns would fit the children(they could handle them).

Easy way to measure Length of Pull for a youngster is to get them to bend their trigger finger, then measure to the crease in their arm where it bends...get ready for a shock!

Physics don't change even if we are small or not as strong as others.

All bullets slow down as they go through the air, and that means every bullet looses power as it gets farther from the muzzle.

So a "youth long range gun" is the same as a "big mans long range gun."

A cartridge and bullet that is so-so for killing game at 300 yards is not somehow better at 800 yards.

Such a question is parallel and analogues to asking "what barbell is best for my young son or daughter to compete with in the world champion weight lifting contest?" The answer is simple. The same one the biggest man uses.


First off, we do a disservice to the kids by teaching them to shoot at very long ranges at big game. That's the opposite of hunting. It's simply shooting, wounding and killing. Best to teach such marksmanship skills on gallon milk jugs.

I do like to shoot long range and I have done it of about 45 years, but "long range hunting" is like "light weight lead" or "Clinton honesty". There is no such thing.

2nd, by shooting at game at long range just to say you did it, is to give the anti-hunting foes more and valuable leverage against hunting for us all, all over the USA.

But if you insist on doing it, keep in mind that the bullet wound does the killing. The depth and diameter of the bullet hole, breaking bones and going through. If your rifle and cartridge combination does a good job at 300 yards, and results in quick humane kills you need something that gives the same size and depth of wound at the range you want to shoot.

So if we look at 100% penetration (which is far more important at 600-800 yards then it is at 200 because you will most likely NEED a good blood trail, and you will not be able to walk right to the exact spot of the hit as easily) and lets say, a cavity of at least 1" in diameter.

What gun will do that?
Well not ANY that are light, short and have low levels of recoil. NONE!!!!

The ones that do well are the 300 mags with bullet of 200 grains and 220 grains, some of the biggest 8MMs the big 338s and the 9.3X62 does well. So does the 375H&H.and the very best ones are the 416 Barret, 408 CheyTac and the 50 BMG.

So the kids needs to get tough, so recoil is not a problem, and strong enough to carry a heavy rifle, and probably both.

"Long range" is a term that needs to be defined. Is long range 400 yards? or 600? Or 800? Or 1400?
There is often a very notable difference in the effects of a bullet at 400 and 600. There is ALWAYS a big difference between 400 and 1000 yards.

And the target............ is that a 140 pound deer or a 900 pound bull elk?
Elk need bullets that break MUCH bigger bones, and go about 50% to 75% deeper then deer bullets. An elk doesn't die easier just because he is farther away. In fact it's harder to put them down at longer ranges.

And your rifles needs to do the job well if you jump the elk at only 50 yards instead of seeing it at 600. Your rifle needs to cover all the bases. But in reality, such a rifle has not been invented, so we get as close to the "perfect rifle" as we can.

If you self-impost a max range of about 500 meters you'll find that about 85% of the common deer rifles do just fine if you load the right kind of bullet in them. Past 500 meters the game starts to change and it changes a LOT at much longer ranges.

Such guns are the big ones, with the big bullets. Standard deer rifles with excellent bullets are all you need out to about 450, but beyond that, the power lever should go up a LOT and/or your bullet's performance! Bullets that work well at longer ranges usually blow up and do vert poorly at mid and close range, and the real truth is that 85% of all the game you'll kill in your life is at close to mid range. 50 to 300 yards.

If you insist on doing this, the best way to proceed is to have the kid shoot so much that he/she can put a 1st round from a cold bore on a milk jug 100% of the time. At any range they miss is a range they are not stable enough, and they should not shoot from that position or that range.

Have them shoot many many thousands of rounds of good hunting ammo with bullets made to work at 25 to 500 yards, Then have them shoot enough of the "long range bullets" to be able to hit the jug 100% of the time with that load at the long range you have in mind. HUNT with the rifle loaded with the standard ammo. When you decide to take the long shot you have time. So unload the standard ammo and re-load with the long range load. And remember that what is marketed to you as a "long range bullet" may only be a market scheme. Most of the LR bullets I have seen used are a farce to be right out front with it. (there....I said it) The bonded ones do work OK in most cases however. Remember..and EXIT wound is what you will really need want when you make a hit at long range.

"Youth gun" and "long range big game" are 2 things that don't mix well. They mix exactly as well as "Long Range Hunting" and "Hunting Rights". Since this has become a national fad I am seeing a lot more wounded game in the fields and I have found a lot more dead ones that someone lost. Found 4 of the just this year.

The anti-gun and anti-hunting folks know it too---- and they will take full advantage of it.

You are way better off teaching the kid to hunt when he/she is hunting, and to shoot at long range on other targets.

The best hunter doesn't need the latest or hottest cartridge of the day. Forget the 6.5 Creed and all that other fad stuff and get him that 243. It has been satisfying hunters of all ages and skill. You can always find a box of ammo in any hardware store wherever you may go and seeing you are in Montana, that is a consideration. There isn't anything newer than the 243 that will kill any deader!

While I don't agree with how the vast majority do "long range hunting".... I'm not sure which is more ridiculous- that you need a 50bmg to kill past 500 yards, that anti-hunters care what distance you shoot an animal at, or that "long range hunters" are wounding more game.


It's fine to not like certain things, but you actually should have a mediocum of experience before ranting about it.

Well now, you are 100% with in your right to have an opinion, but before you say so in print, you should have asked if I have a "mediocum of experience." (Modicum is what I think you meant to write)

I do. And a lot more then a modicum. Including several years in military service, doing exactly that.

I also, didn't write that you need a 50 BMG to kill past 500. Go back and read it again.

Your "several years in military service" says that the 300 mags with 200 and 220gr bullets and bigger are best?

No, that's from about 40years of my life being a hunting guide. In my day we didn't have 300s. Only 308s.

And I didn't say "best". I said "they do well."

"Best" is more a function of the marksmanship of the shooter, and the ability of a bullet to penetrate in a relatively straight line without blowing up or veering off.

Shooting long distances is something I have a lot of experience at. I have a range in my front yard and by walking sown the road onto public ground I can fire to 750 yards any time and any day I want to. In a 15 minute drive I can be at a place we can fire out to 1 mile.

But shooting is not hunting. And hunting is not sniping.

Assuming I have a student who has the desire, (and the money for the ammo,) I can turn about anyone into a good long range shooter. "Long range" being out to the trans-sonic range of the shooters load. I don't say I can make a world class competitor, not one but the shooter can do that, and most of them can't. But a competent and proficient shooter is what I am talking about.

I was invited to a conference about 15 years ago in New Mexico as a guest speaker. It was a "Sniper's Invitational Competition". I was asked to be in the "think tank". We hashed over guns, bullets, cartridges gear, clothing and so on, for 3 days.

When I was asked about a training course I told the others there that my idea of the Ultimate Sniper Training course" would be a bit different than what we taught in the USMC, and also what was taught in the Navy and Army. I think very highly of the courses that are being taught today, but if I were in charge (and if the budget was there for it) I would take sniper training one step farther.

If I could work my will, the course would induce the Shooting/Ballistics and Field craft, Land-Nav, Photo-Recon and Sketching, Scouting, Winderness Survival/S.E.A.R. and so on, but one thing I would add is a mandatory requirement of archery hunting.

I got a lot of shocked looks when I said that.

I then went on to explain.

Train a man in all of the above, but then give him a recurve bow, about 1 DZ arrows and let him practice on targets until he can shoot all arrows into a 6" circle at 20 yards. No sights, no triggers, no wheels and nothing too modern. I want to make this a weapon and ammunition that is not good for long range.
If I were in charge, no one would get his final sniper's badge until he could kill 6 white tail deer with that archery equipment. He has to know how to move and HUNT and not be seen by deer. Deer don't shoot back, but they have ears and eyes that makes a mans look pretty primitive. Give me a company of men that can kill Whitetails at 20 yards and closer,, with primitive equipment, and do so on demand, and then let me give them rifles that reach to 1000 yards and communications equipment that can reach Com/Sats and have all the other training too, and then let me integrate them into the Fleet Marine Force with missions that use them the way snipers should be used, and I will give the people of the USA a VERY frightened group of enemies.

I got a standing ovation.

(Too bad it will never be implemented into the course of instruction.)

But back to the OPs question.
I do have a background in long distance shooting. But I grew up hunting since I was in grade school. I am also someone what some history of political activism and I know how laws and regulations come into being. It's not done (unfortunately) by men and women that often know much about the subject they regulate. If you doubt this take a look at some of the weapons restriction I see coming out of various states.

I am 100% for the idea of a Trained Citizens Militia, and I know historically what that is supposed to be. I would LOVE it is most of our young men and girls coming out of high-school were far better at shooting and gun handling then they were are driving a car.

Again,,,If I were in charge marksmanship would be as important in school (or more-so) then PE and at least equal to Driver's Education. I'd love to be in a nation where at least 75% of the teens could hit a man sized target at 1000 yards coming out of high school, and were taught the history of what and why a "well organized Militia" is so important to a "Free State". Government is SUPPOSED to fear the people!!!!

But deer and elk are not our enemies. They are a blessing given to us by God and we should show them the respect any good Stewart should show.

Just because I can hit a deer at 1000 yards doesn't mean I should.

What is to be gained from doing that? A deer? What hunter can't get closer than that to a deer and still call himself a hunter? That's not a hunter, it's a selfish person wanting to brag, and it's like bragging about how well you can drive drunk. Or bragging about how drunk you got so that you had to sh-t yourself. It's the mark of a fool to brag about such things. Killing a deer or elk at 1000 yards is not something to brag about. Killing one at 10 yards is.

Brag about your abilities to hit a target ON DEMAND with your rifle (and do not be exaggerating) and that is impressive and will get well deserved complements from many, except corrupt politicians and those that follow them.

Such marksmanship is an outstanding skill for warfare and something tyrants fear to a huge degree. But we don't eat them and they deserve no respect if they are fomenting the destruction of your rights and the rights of your children.

But big game is not the enemy.

Respect the game as the blessing it is. They are not score cards. If you shoot, kill them clean, and never risk loosing one to try to build up your ego.

That's how I see it, and that's why I see it that way.

I goddammed near stood up and ovulated, my ownself......

6.5 Creedmoor with 140 Bergers would be a sweet rig. Glad the OP has his kid shooting. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I got a standing ovation, that one time at band camp.....

Join us on the 24hour campfire for This weeks round table discussion of children’s rifles / cartridges, our panel of experts features lively debate between a high level DOD scope drop tester, a guest speaker from The Sniper Convention Think Tank, a couple guys who were children themselves until just a few weeks ago and several gentlemen who, while well versed internet discussion texhnique and theory, haven’t been around rifles much or children at all. Let’s tune in...

You hit the nail on the head there, buddy.

Narrated by a pompous ass hole?

It’s just my narrators voice that sounds that way. I just skimm d the highlights there at the end of the thread. If you posted on your results with your kids- I’m sure there are actual pearls of wisdom in here somewhere- and apologize for not crediting you in my post!!! If this is your first contribution- I like it- we can take turns taking cheap shots at each other as we deliver color commentary. Either way is good


I posted and deleted a few times before I made that first post. Finally came back and like a dumb a s s went ahead and posted. I don’t feel that bad- one look at my post count VS time on the board will tell you I’m not the one clogging the campfire up with useless BS- but I am as human as the next guy and every once in a while I’ll go ahead and add a useless post too.

I thought it was a pretty accurate post.

Yeah- possibly it was- but that’s not the point- in the context of the discussion it was just junk that people have to filter through. A couple folks might get a laugh, a couple might get butthurt, And that’s all. It serves no purpose as far as advancing the discussion.


Sorry guys.

Sounds like 95% of Fire’ threads to me.

I know I gotta laugh out of it.... and the “pompous narrator” comment was a tongue in cheek shot back across the bow.... kinda like your post....

Back on topic.... I’ve watched close to 100 Kids make hits at 500+ yards, as young as 8 years old, running our 8.5lb .260 wearing a 3-9 Leupold. I see absolutely no reason to go anything other than .243/.260/Creed.... unless it’s an heirloom piece.

PLEASE do not take this as an arguement for the bob. First of all.

My son never liked shooting the 243. Always like the bob. That’s in otherwise identical platforms. I blame The high operating pressure, as well as the overall case design- the same as it eats barrels it makes the 243 more obnoxious for a young or inexperienced shooter. Now please try not to bog down there- I’m guessing as to why the 243 was that way for him, but I’m telling you what he told me about why he didn’t like it. Anyway the 20” 243 always had enough muzzle blast/flash etc to make it more dramatic than the bob. He just got a creed. Since it is LIGHT and short at 20” tube I’m going to load 120-123 grainers middle of the road instead of 140 and up initially. I don’t know if the slight difference in recoil between 120 and 140 will bother him but in a 6.5 lb 7mm08 I can tell a difference between 120s and 140s- so there is a difference. To this point it’s always been the blast and flash that bother him not recoil.


All that was just Long way to say 6.5mm is overall better for a kid than 6mm, noise/blast/flash/pressure probably matter more than recoil and a 6lb rifle kicks 33% harder than a 9pounder. So that’s a some things to consider. Obviously you know your kid

I’m thinking 120s or 123s- I’m ordering a handful to try- at 2800fps gets you out to 600 -650 with only about 5 mils depending on the bullet- with plenty of starch left. Probably not transonic til 800ish, maybe like 750 or so it’s pretty light. I’m hoping it’ll work well from about 50-250 more so however

The 123 Scenars are a PEACH, if that's the 123 you are referring to. Although I wouldn't have any qualms on using the 123 AMaxes, etc.

My kids and wife have shot a lot of 123s at 2850, via 20” .260. At our altitude they’ll run well out to 1000+.... but 600 and in is probably 90+% of our shooting. I shot 123s at 3000 (23” .260) down at the SRM on a windy day... and did fine.

I agree on the blast issue... there are some calibers that seem more obnoxious than others, especially in shorther (20”) barrels. The addition of a suppressor makes it so easy on the kids.

If we’re talking kids “hunting” calibers... then the Bob, and every other SA caliber are viable 300 yard options.

Hell, I gave him a standing ovation.

that’s like the 3rd standing ovation this thread. If we keep giving them out to people for just showing up doesnt that devalue the standing ovation? While i appreciate The gesture I’m going to take a knee, silently protesting the continued and ongoing misuse and abuse of the standing ovation.

That's funny as hell, right there.



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