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Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14132131 09/17/19
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Dinny Offline
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JFE,
You're all over it! The seller made a mistake and sent his 333 Jeffrey Rimless Nitro Express ammo. That looks to be a potent cartridge!

Thanks, Dinny


Medics bury their mistakes..
BP-B2

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14133506 09/17/19
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The 348 is best left to wildcats like Harold Johnson's 450 Alaskan, the 50 Alaskan, and PO Ackley's 348 Ackley Improved. They are pretty much based on the 1886 and Model 71
Winchester lever action rifles. These Winchesters are fast-action lever guns that put repeat shots on game like lower 48 grizzlies or Alaskan brown bear.
These animals require fast repeat shots, in many cases.

Most efforts to wild cat the 348 out of its original rim for bolt action rifles have not met with much success, though the Siamese Mausers
have been wildcatted to 450 and 50 Alaskan.

The Alaskan consensus is that most of this ground has been well covered for bolt guns by the 338-06, the 35 Whelen, and 375 Whelen or even the 400 Whelen Improved.
The 35 Whelen Improved will also run circles around most cartridges for moose and bear, especially with today's bonded core bullets. Brass is easily formed
as is the 338-06. Right from 30-06 with a single pass.

Last edited by 450Fuller; 09/17/19.
Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14140705 09/20/19
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If any of you like big bores then I suggest you find a book called James "450" Watts. He was a school teacher from Seward long ago. Him and his wife led an adventurous out door life. Mr. Watts was a gun guy, as is evidenced by the material in his book. After reading his book I was left with the opinion he had more influence with the 450 Alaskan then he is given credit for.

Form your own opinion on that, but most of the book is a good read.

I remember stopping in Cooper Landing and visiting with Mr. Fuller. Interesting old Alaskan for sure.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14142447 09/21/19
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North61 Offline
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The plain jane Winchester 348 is pretty great the way it is. Really well balanced ballistics, and feeds slick as poo from a goose with that tapered case. It also has very little recoil from a heavy 71 and that makes repeat shots very fast. I can see some sense in the 35-348 Ackley improved. Better than Whelen ballistics and some interesting 35 caliber bullets to use like the great 220 Speer.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14153889 09/25/19
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I tend to agree that the 348 WCF is an excellent cartridge as it stands, particularly as it has received added impetus from the newer bonded core bullets. Repeat shots are very fast, indeed.
My best 8-pt 280 pound white tail came by a fast M-71 shot. But when it comes to the improved .348 Ackley, it is in a world of its own. John Kronfeld did a review and research some 15
years ago for Handloader Magazine and I think he was correct. A simple re-chambering and the M-71 in 348 ACK Imp becomes a powerful lever action 35 Whelen w/o using .358 diam. bullets.
It is already 348-that is close enough with AK Bullet Works, Woodleigh, Swift and Hawk bullets.

My largest Alaska moose was taken with a 348 Ack Improved at 90 yards. He barely moved after one solid hit with a 270 gr Hawk bullet. Recoil is close to a standard
348 cartridge with a 250 gr bullet. But-with the new bonded bullets -a 200 gr FP or 225-will do the business in a as-issued Model 71 348- on most North American game-except for possibly
grizzlies or brown bear. Then I prefer a bit more in the displacement area -hitting the engine room.

IC-A

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14164237 09/29/19
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What lever gun rifles can the 35-348 Win. be chambered in? I like my 45-70 and .356 Win. But, a tough 220 to 250 grain .35 caliber bullet from a old school lever gun like a Marlin 1895 or a Win. 94 , or 71 with .35 Whelen ballistics sounds perfect for my Alaskan hunting. It would easily handle 300 yard shots on moose and caribou and 200 yard shots on bears.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14165420 09/30/19
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Steve, the easiest most economical conversion would be a 348 ackly imp on a mod 71 Win.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14165714 09/30/19
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Fuller: Do you know the case capacity of your 348 cases and the case capacity of your 348 AI cases (same make of case)? Thanks.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14167847 10/01/19
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Hey markak, Sent you a PM to see if number I have for you is good so I can send you a pic of my moose and my handsome mug! Unfortunately I was carrying my scoped .338 and not the .356 Win. A broad side shot at about 150 yards on a standing moose. Can't hardly miss.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14169679 10/01/19
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The most useful thing one can do to a model 71 is make it into a 50-110. The second most useful is a .348AI.

Woodleigh bullets are where it's at for softs for either. Cutting Edge makes a suitable solid for the .50--110.

IC-B

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14181747 10/06/19
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The real reason why Johnson developed the 450 Alaskan and later the 50 Alaskan was that Winchester had stopped producing brass in 45/90 and 50/110. These days with strong brass available for the old cartridges it does beg the question why you would want to build a 450 Ak or 50 Ak, other than nostalgia of course.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14200287 10/13/19
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The 348 Ack holds about 10-12% more powder than the 348 WCF. It is very close to the 35 Whelen in velocity and energy. JFE, you are partially correct, but Johnson was a WWll
Marine not satisfied with the 45-70 or 30-06 he had hunted with. In looking at my 450s, its easy to see that while the 348 and 45-90 have similar cartridge case head base diameter-
they are different by a couple thousanths....Thus it is easier to use the existing 348 case dimensions to open it up to either 458 or 510 chambering. The 50-110 may require barrel set back and re-headspacing. The 50-110 is actually the
case that the 348 is based on. For brown /grizzly stopping at close range, the big fifty in either caliber gets it done. But, the 450s in my own experience are more accurate and there are more bullets to choose from. Johnson also developed the "Fifty" as he called it by using a modified 50 BMG machine gun barrel-turned down and re-chambered. Starline also
produces readily available 50 AK new brass-ready to hand load.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14200473 10/13/19
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Interesting read.. We were just in Coopers Landing this summer..


Molon Labe
Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14770327 04/11/20
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Recently reviewed the .458 Barnes TSX copper bullet @ 300 grs.
While it might do for deer or smaller-it is NOT a bear bullet in
a 450 Alaskan or any 45-70 for grizzly. A 350 gr is minimum, and 400 gr bonded- core
like the Woodleigh or Alaska Bullet works is the safety first choice.
Harold Johnson complained of the way
standard 348 Silvertip bullets blew up on heavy bear
covered in thick fur and ice. So its well-constructed bullets in
rifles made for the big bear.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14772225 04/11/20
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Evnin gents, cool reading you guys. I know very little of 71s/86s, have played with a 45-70, 454casull. But I do remember that on the show ( Front Page Challenge) on tv, old black & white, don't remember the year but I was pretty young & I remember they had a mounty on there & they of course had to guess the story line. The story was the rat river trapper. Your right about the 99 in 30-30! This mounty was there & he got shot in the knee with the 30-30 at 300 yds that Albert Johnson was carrying & had to be taken out of the chase & dog sled took him back? to hospital I guess. Well I was young but found it very interesting, we trapped & farmed so we played the rat river trapper game for weeks I'm sure. Quite a few had seen the show as the teacher had a bit of a discussion on it the next day. I'm sure that helped me with the idea of going north & living off the land . Didn't happen exactly but I think I've always sided with the Rat River Trapper because I just want to be left alone to do my thing. Not good with people.. I've seen all the movies about it, read all the books. If they could of just left him alone?????....... Bill out πŸΎπŸ‘£πŸΎπŸ‘£πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14779849 04/13/20
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There is a guy on a remote homestead on the Yukon River that uses the 71/348 AI as his primary rifle.

He downs moose and caribou with 250 grain woodleigh.

Re: Model 71 Wildcats- hunting in Canada- Alaska [Re: 450Fuller] #14779851 04/13/20
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Would like to get my 86 put back in better shape. Someone did a rebarrel and blue job. Curiously, they didn't fix a badly bent tang and the cartride loading door is messed up. They blued over it according to the looks of it. It is in 33 Winchester and I would like the 450 or 50 Alaskan. I'm not sure I can come up with the cash to have Turnbull redo it. Maybe if Noneman is still working I can get him to do it. I don't want museum grade just a good hunting grade. Thanks and Be Well, Rustyzipper.

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