Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Will the 224 Valkyrie go the same way as the Wssm?

You see these things but wonder will they be around in 5 years? I can see this with a lighter bonded or solid bullet as a great Deer cartridge.

https://federalpremium.com/224-valkyrie/

The reason that it probably will do well is because they aren't building it around light bullets. It's the AR15's Creedmoor.

And yet it could have been so much more, if just based on the Grendel case instead...

Federal wants the whole enchilada.....................($$$).

MM

JP Enterprises .224 Valkyrie Supermatch barrels will be available in January 2018 at a starting retail price of $569.

$569 is a bit much, hope someone else chambers for it.

Just call White Oak and get a 22/6.8 I think they make them or did?

Heck to be honest if its teh figures I saw earlier today, 90 at 2700.. then shoot a 223... 90s will hit 2700 no problem. They will not stablize in a 7 twist... needs 6.5 for the 223 in a 20 inch tube

That's been around for years (maybe not exactly) in the form of the 22 PDK, which while never factory loaded, doesn't see much use anymore partly due to brass quality back in the day. It's a good predator/varmint cartridge for the AR platform and provides a real performance gain over the .223. I've got a XTC space gun upper put together by WOA in 6mm PDK and it is very accurate and I've never had any issues other than not being happy with the quality of SSA brass. I like the sound of the 90gr .223 bullet, but would be surprised to see it in component form. If someone chambers it from the factory on a mid-priced platform it will probably survive but if the barrels aren't made available in the $200 range I can't see it holding factory support for very long.

Me too, $250 bucks a barrel is a good spot. I get a 90 grain 22 bullet, but for me a 100 grain fusion would be great. I don’t know if a 100 would be stable with a 1-7 but that is what JP is selling.

MV would be the only way a 100 grain would be stable since 90 jlks don't do it in 7 twist 223....

So what does the 224 Valkyrie do that the 22 grendel can’t? Hell those numbers are less then my 6 grendel gets and I don’t even push it that hard as I’m still burning up my Hornady brass and haven’t cracked into my lapua stash yet.

For one it can shoot factory ammo, never seen 22 grendel in the store. with Federal going all in this will probably be a successful chambering. I always roll my own but most want factory fodder.

As to the OP, The WSSM was a bad design from the start

100gr would probably be a real stretch. I'll wait for Brian Litz to do the real math but I have to expect that this new 90 Fusion hunting bullet is going to be a bit blunter and shorter than the current heavy .224 VLDs, so maybe it will work in a 7-8" twist? I know a friend of mine had a 22-250 with a 9" twist Blackstar barrel and it would hammer with 80gr Sierra MKs. Not a true VLD bullet but not a brick either.

80 smks were far from high BC compared to JLK 80s. At least on paper in matches there was a scoring ring difference if you missed the wind...

If blunter it may well stablize in a 7. I really doubt 8 unless the speeds get much higher than the 2700 I saw. Again 2700 and a 90 works from a 223... so one would expect a lot more speed from a larger case....

Federal won't win with this one.

Grendel is a better case design for an AR-15.

They should have used the Grendel case. A shortenrd 6.8 case isn't much better than 223

Looking at the ballistics I think your wrong in this case cowboy.

I still ask a bit of why.... 223 and 90s hit 2750. BUT thats in a single round loading affair so I guess now that I think of it...

But for a bolt rifle there 223 will out pace the 224..... wild...

It does seem odd that the 5.56 in a bolt gun will outrun this new round

No it won't. Not even if you run a 223 hot as chit....

Know one likes 223/5.56 more than I... but let's get real here- the 224 Valkyrie is 200+ FPS faster when loaded same/same. And you can get baller factory ammo for $20 a box. And it fits in the M16/M4 FOW magazines.


Gun guys are the weirdest bunch- they bish about everything without ever thinking about it. The 224V is the closet thing we will get to a fast twist 22-250 with factory loaded high BC bullets. As a shooter I say- hell yes.

This is why I said they should have used the grendal case instead of shortening the 6.8 case. It's worse of an improvement than the 22 nosler. It's all hype. If you need to run that heavy of bullets do an ar 10 in 6 Creed. It's going to flop. Something on the br case is where this all should start

I am glad they came out with it because I have a 6.8 bolt that I can use and I would prefer to shoot heavier 22 caliber bullets instead of the .277 caliber bullets. The grendal case consumes a lot of bolt face, more so than the 6.8, just wonder if it would be robust enough.

Ain't no way the .223 is going to outrun the Valk with anything.

As a race car mechanic buddy used to tell me "There ain't no substitute for cubic inches except more of them".

Umm ok then, the 6.8 case is like 3 grains more powder from my memory I could be wrong. shorten the case any and you deducting from 3 extra grains. So what is it 1.5 now? Let's also remember your giving up almost free brass. Grendel case didn't need shortening. But then again why shoot a 22 Grendel. When there is already. 6.5. That is the reason for the choice they made. Marketing and hype pure and simple

Jeez Jimmy, a new bolt is what, $60-$80? That's hardly justification for using one case vs the other, especially when you really should be dedicating a bolt to one specific barrel for durability. Plenty of guys are shooting the Grendel (myself included), the bolts these days are "robust enough". Most of the broken bolt stories are from either severe over-pressure loads, or the old days of weaker bolts when 7.62x39 was first tried in the AR.


My understanding is that Federal chose the 6.8 case for the Valkyrie because they're already tooled up and making 6.8 brass. Good for Federal, using what you've got, but that doesn't translate to being the best choice for us as the customer. At least they understood to shorten the case for longer bullets than the 5.56.

The Grendel never seemed as popular as the 6.8. Perhaps because it was a proprietary cartridge? The bolt face robustness I have no clue only that it seemed to be a common complaint. What will be wild is if we see the US Military start converting to the Valkyrie.

the 6.8 is actually standard at least for the jordanian military and the saudi military. The 6.8 I think has been looked at and considered by the military. the grendel not so much but I still think its the most versatile of the 2 cases, since 22 nosler was rebated rim 6.8spc case. how about a grendel case with a rebated rim that uses a 6.8 bolt but has the length of the 6.8 case.

The popularity depends purely on who you're listening to. The bolt issue comments come more from 6.8 fans who just want another reason to say the 6.8 is better, in my experience. Having used both factory and wildcat chamberings using both cases, I think it's pretty fair to say the only reason for Federal using the 6.8 case is because they're already set up to make it. I don't see any advantage to us as the users.

The basis for the Grendel case has been around a long time, 7.62x39 -> 22 Russian -> 22/6mm PPC -> Grendel; it's not like it's a one-off proprietary case. Lapua makes great Grendel brass, or you can form it from 7.62x39 cheap if that's your preference. Federal brass on the other hand - no thanks if there are other options.

I'd like one in a Ruger American Predator.....left-handed please.

if boxes of federal cartridges start showing up next year we will see where it winds up regards popularity.

The Valkyrie is a marketing gimmic rather than a "best design given the restraints." Same as the 22 Nosler. Both are compromised designs trying to gain a proprietary market.

The 22 Grendel in some form is the best design. It may lose out in the marketing department unless Hornady+Ruger pick it up soon, but it is still the better design of the three.

And no, there are no bolt-head weakness issues that weren't resolved years ago.

Seems like the 6.8 is more popular, maybe the reason Federal tooled up for the 6.8 is it’s popularity over the Grendel.

They "tooled up" for the SPC case because they already produce that case.

When it came out, the 6.8 skyrocket in popularity, where as the 6.5G only had a slight rise. And the 6.8 plummeted in popularity just as quickly as it took off. (helped in part I suppose by the flavor of the week wearing off and by so many people suddenly thinking the re-re-invention of the 30-221 was the latest and greatest most bestest AR cartridge eva!) Where as the 6.5 kept it's slow steady pace onward.

I'm not sure why you keep saying the 6.8 is more popular. It's not really, unless you're talking to 6.8 fanatics. Grendel fans will of course tell you the Grendel is more popular. In reality both lag far behind the 5.56, but I think the Grendel is starting to see a lot more use lately. Nosler (well, SSA) and Federal both got into the 6.8 brass making business because of profitable military contracts with foreign governments; that really has nothing to do with whether the 6.8 is more popular here or a better case design.

federal isnt my favorite brand of brass

I like to stir the pot, Grendel is the best, wait no 6.8 is the best. I do see more 6.8 loaded ammunition around town, but now I see more creedmore than 6.8 ammo.

And none of 'em can hang with the 300 Black'.................grin

Can’t run a creedmore in an ar15. Moot point.

Hope it does well.

I would rather have a 22 Nosler.....but I still hope the Federal round has a go.

I hope it does well as well. The grendel boys are deeply hurt due to their superior case or cases and what not, but anything that will fire in a std ar and cast a 100 grain bullet at 2700 fps seems like an improvement over the 5.56

How many will actually shoot 90gr bullets out of this thing? There are at least 4 other 224 cartridges that are faster with bullets up to 80gr. 80gr VLDs at 3000-3050 or 90s at 2700? Is it a varmint cartridge or a long range paper puncher? I agree with some,the 22 Nosler is too long to use long bullets and the 224V is too short causing lose of powder capacity.
I talked to some of the bigger companies at SHOT last year, they said the Grendel bolt was a liability that they did not want to take a chance on. Some hinted the mags were issues too.

There are already several 6mms based on the 6.8 and Grendel, that will be the next phase for the ammo companies.

All I know is I saw over 4000 fps with a 50 grain NBT in the 223wssm and 75 gr Amax's fit at mag length. Give me the 223AI over the Nosler any day.

Marketing is an art these days.

I sure would like to know the truth about the grendel bolt weakness problem, several members swear there is no problem but then you hear it from different sources. Then you hear about the feeding problems as well...

When they first came out, I think it was a big problem, just look at how thin that metal is around the recessed area of the bolt. But I think it has been solved with better designs and better steel.

http://www.msrhunt.com/post/grendel-bolts-still-breaking-6820032

A quick search found the above link and it has some interesting reading (even mentions squaring the receiver) but in short 9310 is a better steel thAN what some makers are using. But then they mention Leitner Wise of LWRC and I 'remembered "hip fired gun" who turned out to be an employee posting on arfcom on as a gov't tester so who knows.

Buy a good bolt and barrel then see what happens I guess.

As for the 6.8 .case, it doesn't handle pressure when necked down and souped up. The Grendel might be the answer.

The 6.8 necked down to .224 -20" barrel will send a 80 Berger down range at 3000fps with 28gr N540.
Peterson out of middle Tenn shot a 4.5" group at 1200yds with one a few years ago at Strategic Edge.

Nosler and Remington brass can't handle the pressure but S&B, SSA and Fed seem to do fine.

Cousin bought a DTECH upper in 22 DTI and the SSA brass didn't hold up either, neither did Hornady. Mike emailed him max loads and cousin thought he was playing it safe but Mike's info was spot on. In fairness it did a better job with heavier bullets but still nothing to brag about unless you wanted to leave your brass on the ground,

I still say the 223wssm was as good as it got, heck it's got more powder capacity than my 22-250ai but it still failed miserably.

The 6WOA was probably the best use for the SPC case for a hunting gun anyway.

Exactly. If they would have gone with a shorter case with the capacity of the Grendel it would have been a better suited design for the heavies. The 6.8 case is just too long for the heavier smaller diameter bullet. I went through that when shooting 6mm necked down versions of both. The 6mm Grendel out shinned the 6mm SPC in function and performance when it came to the 95gr VLD's and heavier.

nice video 1300 yard supersonic

https://youtu.be/6HxQa6E7tm8

Rifle makers to include Barrett, CMMG, JP Enterprises, LaRue Tactical, LMT Defense, LWRC, MasterPiece Arms, Mossberg, Q LLC, Savage and Seekins Precision are all reportedly working on bringing offerings using the new cartridge to market.

I am sure if they used the grendal case it would have been better...

YEP!!! 👍👍👍👍