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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,421
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,421 |
I used the "Contact Us" feature on Leupold's website to send them this: Good morning folks. I don't have a question, but I do have a concern. I have always been a Leupold fan. Most of my rifles wear Leupold scopes. They were once considered the gold standard in optics. I consume volumes of information. I read a number of shooting and hunting related internet forums. Now I know that sometimes you have to dismiss some social media comments as outliers, but I can no longer dismiss the negative Leupold comments. They are pervasive on all of the forums that I read. And it's some very seasoned, very skilled users that are having issues with your product. And it's common. So why am I writing you? I want Leupold to maintain its reputation as one of the world's premiere scope builders. You are an American company, and I first seek out American made products, especially when it comes to hunting and shooting. I want you to succeed. You are losing the faith of a lot of your customers. Many of them have abandoned you already. Social media is here to stay. It's where people get their information. You have far too many customers posting legitimate complaints. Please do whatever it takes to restore your fading glory. Here is but one example of one of your recent failures https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../i-am-going-to-lose-my-scheit-on-leupold Discerning sportsmen and women won't accept that. There are many more legitimate complaints on that forum and others. Thanks for your time. Paul
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,703
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,703 |
Very nice, but I can almost guarantee that you'll get a classic "Thanks for your input" letter like the ones you get when you write to your congressional reps. They've taken a decision to operate like this because they're convinced that's the path to the greatest profitability, and they'll ride it out until the bottom line falls out from under them. I worked through several cycles of my company letting things go to Hell in one way or another and know the drill. The trend is to go for the up-front money and not worry about retaining a customer base. They'll deny it, but watch what they do, not what they say.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,015
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,015 |
Thanks for your effort.
You wrote a very well put together piece, you covered points of contention very well.
Stay with them, don’t let them blow you off.
DF
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 217
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 217 |
The recent Leupold hate is hard to fathom. I have filled several freezers with meat and have a shelf of silhouette trophies that I earned using their scopes. No failures ever in a few dozen of their scopes, over 4+ decades. Is this all very recent production?
I don’t mean to discount anyone’s personal experiences, but it’s difficult to match up based on my own. As a long time Leupold fan myself, I used to have an almost religious sort of respect for their products until about 2006. That is when I first saw the problems start. A couple of my friends, who are very well respected high end rifle makers noticed the same problems about the same time. At first, I really didn't want to believe it and plodded along as any good choir boy will do. Then, between 2009 and 2013 or so I had five of seven new Leupold's have problems retaining point of impact. Four were VX-III's and one was the much touted FX-II 6x36, which gave up the ghost during a Dall sheep hunt in Alaska. When I shot the sheep at about 350 yards, I noticed the bullet impact was about 6" to the left of where it should have been in dead calm conditions. Sure enough, when I got home the POI had shifted about 1.5" left of where it was when I left for Alaska and the turret had a weird crunchy feel when you turned it. At one point, I had three Leupold variables lose POI on a 300 Wby over the course of about two months. This was handy, as it saved me on postage when I crammed them all in one flat rate box to send in for service. It did cost me a lot of expensive ammunition though. Nowadays, I pretty much stick with NF, Schmidt & Bender, SWFA SS, and if I need to go light, older Leupold M8's. I do have a newer Burris Fullfield II that has been holding up well to 300 mag recoil. Can't say it's a scope I would put on a nice custom, as it is pretty grim in the looks department, but it has been pretty tough so far. Savvy. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I would move on too, if I had the same experiences. This thread explains some of what I am missing. The first being that I don’t shoot past 550 yards much, so this variable may have went undetected by me. The second being that those scope leveling gadgets have always struck me as a sales gimmick, so I’ve never used one. Now I see that many people take them seriously, so it probably matters to them that things are indexed precisely. (Several silhouette shooters intentionally cant their scopes a lot more than 3°, with plenty of success). The last being that I only have one new Leupold. A new CDS scope, that seems to be working correctly so far. The custom knob arrived from Leupold yesterday, and load testing is getting dialed in, as of this afternoon. The next step is to start stretching out. Wish me luck. With regards to getting attention from Leupold, if it gets serious enough to anyone here, you can always use the Oregon state attorney general. It will get their attention. I wouldn’t over a rifle scope, but I might if half the stuff happened to me that has happened to the folks typing here.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,728
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,728 |
I contacted Leupold CS tonight. Rep was pleasant and helpful. He emailed me a UPS calltag for Overnight shipment back to himself personally. I missed the UPS store cutoff so it won't go out until tomorrow and received in Oregon on Monday (hopefully).
This is really a 1st world problem, there are much greater things to worry about. What really set me off was the failure to fix the problem after sending it back.
Welcome to TN - patron state of shootin’ stuff
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,205 |
It really is sad that was once considered the gold standard in rifle optics has become a bit of a dead horse. I started to lose faith in Leupold products a few years ago when I bought a Kimber Montana from a forum member that was supposed to shoot pretty good. I mounted a new Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 on it (used to be my favorite scope). After two range trips in complete frustration and suspicion of the rifle being a lemon I removed the Leupold and mounted a proven scope on the rifle and returned to the range to find the rifle shot tight little groups. Yes they repaired it but man I had a bad taste in my mouth. Since then I did purchase a few more Leupolds but have since gone completely away from their products. It’s really hard to buy a product that you have personally seen fail several times and then to read testimonial after testimonial of their failures. I even purchased a $800 new VX6 which felt beyond cheap with a plastic turret that I just couldn’t keep. I’m at the point that I’d spend twice as much as my favorite VX3 3.5-10x40 cost just to ensure my equipment is reliable. It’s a shame to see the reputation of a legendary American company be so badly tarnished in suc a short time. Look at the prices that leupolds sell for used in the classifieds , it’s evident that their value is greatly diminished at this point.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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I’ve had tracking/zero retention problems on several recent Leupold scopes and won’t buy another.
From now on, it’s Burris FFII for lighter rigs with 1” rings and SWFA or Nightforce for 30mm.
Really sad to see a company with such a great reputation go south.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,703
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,703 |
Sounds like a plan.
Wonder what would happen if say, Light Optical started making hunting scopes with good adjustments and reliability and selling them direct under their own label, like SWFA, without SWFA, so to speak? Eliminate one more profit layer on a really good, simple scope, and sell it at a reasonable price.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,036
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,036 |
I don't think things have changed at Leupold like a lot of people think. Over 20 years ago I was using Leupold scopes in competition and they had the same problems then as what guys are experiencing today. We didn't have a ton of choices for good high power scopes like we have today. I finally switched over to Weaver T series and all those goofy erector issues went away. So i contend they are still building the scopes of yesteryear but the people buying new scopes are getting smarter.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228 |
30 years ago I had two succesive scopes sent to leupold that came back with the same problem they went it with. One had no turret adjustment and the other fogged. They came back doing the same. I never since been a fan of leupold and since considered them highly over rated. Of many brands those leupold are the only scopes I have ever returned for repair. I wonder if the return rate overwhelms their service department. Considering the number of scopes sold over the years and the seemingly high return rate I can not imagine how many must show up at their door.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,421
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,421 |
Only Leupold knows if the failure rate is greater than it used to be. I'd be interested in knowing what it is. I know that forum complaints are far more regular than they were 10 years ago.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Sounds like a plan.
Wonder what would happen if say, Light Optical started making hunting scopes with good adjustments and reliability and selling them direct under their own label, like SWFA, without SWFA, so to speak? Eliminate one more profit layer on a really good, simple scope, and sell it at a reasonable price. Meopta tried to come out with a 6x series of scopes, poor little Swarovski got their panties in a wad and sued them. That is the legal issue an OEM supplier faces.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
Only Leupold knows if the failure rate is greater than it used to be. I'd be interested in knowing what it is. I know that forum complaints are far more regular than they were 10 years ago. I believe Leupold's changes are family related, the brains behind it all died, some key players also died and or left the company. The family who now runs it evidently has different ideas on how to run it .
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 18,300 |
The recent Leupold hate is hard to fathom. I have filled several freezers with meat and have a shelf of silhouette trophies that I earned using their scopes. No failures ever in a few dozen of their scopes, over 4+ decades. Is this all very recent production?
I don’t mean to discount anyone’s personal experiences, but it’s difficult to match up based on my own. Bullshit
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,972 |
The recent Leupold hate is hard to fathom. I have filled several freezers with meat and have a shelf of silhouette trophies that I earned using their scopes. No failures ever in a few dozen of their scopes, over 4+ decades. Is this all very recent production?
I don’t mean to discount anyone’s personal experiences, but it’s difficult to match up based on my own. Bullshit I wonder how many years people have been tapping on their Leupolds after every adjustment to either get them to move,or stop moving?
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,012
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,012 |
F u c k leupold........ and their new vx3i 3.5x10-40......... F u c k ing back alley abortion scope....Leupold can take their riding the reputation of that ohhh sooo recognizable gold ring of theirs and shove it sideways up their a s s .......
I won't even buy a leupold lens pen.... switch to Nikon for those. And sightron for scopes.
Proud to say , I ain't a leupold fan boy anymore, out sporting my gold ring around thinking my scope is the greatest thing since sliced bread....
I have made it a point to tell people don't buy or trust new leupold scopes ..... f u c k ing grossly out of spec descending to the right trapiziod shooting abortion.....
Buyer beware.......
Last edited by renegade50; 12/16/17.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,104
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,104 |
F u c k leupold........ and their new vx3i 3.5x10-40......... F u c k ing back alley abortion scope....Leupold can take their riding the reputation of that ohhh sooo recognizable gold ring of theirs and shove it sideways up their a s s .......
I won't even buy a leupold lens pen.... switch to Nikon for those. And sightron for scopes.
Proud to say , I ain't a leupold fan boy anymore, out sporting my gold ring around thinking my scope is the greatest thing since sliced bread....
I have made it a point to tell people don't buy or trust new leupold scopes ..... f u c k ing grossly out of spec descending to the right trapiziod shooting abortion.....
Buyer beware.......
Sightrons are LEGIT..........great choice. The newly designed Weaver Grand Slams are pretty incredible a well. Both actually have repeatable adjustments and very nice glass to go along with the internals. I've always disliked leupold, hell, I even tried a few new ones out in the last few months to see if I was missing something. Nope, same old JUNK that I determined 20 years ago. Granted the older scopes were more reliable that the new ones.........but they never tracked well, and the glass has always been subpar (for what your paying...........VX3 and lower).
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,475
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,475 |
F u c k leupold........ and their new vx3i 3.5x10-40......... F u c k ing back alley abortion scope....Leupold can take their riding the reputation of that ohhh sooo recognizable gold ring of theirs and shove it sideways up their a s s .......
I won't even buy a leupold lens pen.... switch to Nikon for those. And sightron for scopes.
Proud to say , I ain't a leupold fan boy anymore, out sporting my gold ring around thinking my scope is the greatest thing since sliced bread....
I have made it a point to tell people don't buy or trust new leupold scopes ..... f u c k ing grossly out of spec descending to the right trapiziod shooting abortion.....
Buyer beware.......
Tell us how you really feel, LOL
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,012
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,012 |
Sightron SII 3x9-42 gonna go on my naked mod70ot6. If their S1 3x9-40 can handle the recoil of an H&R 20 ga USH with the pound weight bar taken out of the butt stock, shooting well over 100 rds of old school 410gr Hastings laser accurate discarding sabot slugs at 2000 fps over 3 yrs without drifting or losing zero. Then I'm very sure a SII will work on an ot6. And they have a lifetime warranty also.
F U C K LEUPOLD... they made their bed, now they can sleep in it.
High end late 70,s and early 80,s jap made Tasco scopes are better than the garbage leupold makes now and that's the fugging truth....
Last edited by renegade50; 12/17/17.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,733
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,733 |
And I used to think i had a problem with them...
dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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