Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 45/110???

Ok, i have always been fascinated with the movie Quigley and the 45/110. I know the movie might have been a lot of hype. Isn't the 45/110 a popular cartridge? I know some replicas were chambered in 45/70 and called Quigleys. Just wondering if I ever get into the black powder cartridge shooting if I should pursue that caliber or better off into a more common cartridge. Thanks

You've opened a real can of worms as you soon will see.. My Shiloh is a 110 and always will be a favorite but I also shoot a 45/70 & 45/90..They are all good and have their individual strengths but longer powder columns require more attention IMO,

The very best advice I received from almost every experienced BPCR shooter here and on the Sharps forums was, as a beginner in BPCR, to go with the .45-70.

The only exception to that advice was from Don McDowell (Ranch13 here on the 'Fire) and he is big into the smaller cal BPCR cartridges. He's just prejudiced.

There are volumes of data and ballistic info on the .45-70, it only uses a half of a boxcar of BP a month (versus a full boxcar for the .45-110) , and will get you out to 1,000yds. It is easier to get an accurate load with than the big .45's as they aren't quite as temperamental about load column.

I'm not one to offer load column advice as I am still a beginner on this BPCR journey, having only been doing it for a few years now. Woody (FlyboyFlem) and 45_110 here on the 'Fire are a couple of the local experts. For some great advice, ping sharpsguy, Sharpsman, Ranch13, Paul39, Kurt71, Otter, sharps4590, saddlering, EvilTwin, and/or pacecars, just to name a few. Those guys have been doing it far longer than most of us.
In fact, if my memory serves me right, sharpsguy and Sharpsman invented black powder.

Ed

The availability of the 45-70 is a starting point. You can find it at most places that sell reloading supplies. The 45-110, not so much, yet it is available if you order it online. The 45-70 doesn't use as much powder, as noted before, and there is more info out there than you can shake a stick at. The 45-70 also has many recipes for smokeless powder, but I don't know about any thing for the others. I have never seen anything published. I myself am just getting my head wrapped around loading for a 45-70 and a couple 38-55s.
It's up to you, but some times smaller is better.
Knarley

Also remember you can send your .45-70 back to Shiloh and have the chamber run out to 45-90, 45-100 or 45-110. It doesn't work in reverse

Also join the Shiloh rifle forum

Read and heed this from the guy with many letters: The very best advice I received from almost every experienced BPCR shooter here and on the Sharps forums was, as a beginner in BPCR, to go with the .45-70. I would add that it doesn't apply only to novice BPCR shooters.

There are several reasons to get a .45-110, and they are all legitimate. First is the one you mentioned, the cool factor per Quigley. Who knows how many Shilohs in .45-110 have been sold due to that movie. Nothing at all wrong with that. A Sharps in .45-110 is off the charts cool.

Another is long range target shooting. This is a game at its best with heavy rifles in .45-110.

Then there is killing stuff, big stuff, like buffler.

However, truth be told, any of that can be done with a .45-70. I've never hunted with one, but I've shot matches successfully out to almost a mile (Billy Dixon) with my bone stock .45-70. Full disclosure requires that I mention that the cases were stoked full with Swiss 1 1/2, compressed, so that a 535 gr. paper patched bullet was seated only about 0.1" in the case mouth, and crimped just enough to barely hold the bullet. Cartridges had to be handled very carefully. Interestingly, we found one of my bullets in the sand at the 1500 yard target, and it wasn't deformed at all, but the engraving was evident. The paper jacket did its job.

Reasons for not going with a .45-110 are obvious. Cost of brass and powder, a bit tricky to load, heavy recoil in a rifle weighing less than around 15 lbs. All to be weighed against the obvious satisfactions.

All that said, if you absolutely have to have a bit more oomph than a .45-70, my recommendation would be a .45-90.

Good shooting!

Paul

I don't know that there's much, if anything, to add to what's been said other than the 45-70 is popular for a reason.

There is published smokeless load for the bigger BP cases. With the advent of 5744 and Trail Boss it's a lot easier than it used to be.

I had a 45-120....for a while. When hauled out it was always a jaw dropper....never did get to where I liked it. Sold it to a fella who had to have it and I don't believe he's fired it in 25 years.

Might take a peek in the mirror. How patient and determined are you? As has been said the really cool, really long cases cause a fella to jump through a few more hoops than the shorter, maybe not quite as cool cases. If you just want to hear it go "bang", and feel the recoil, heck yea...get one. If you want an accurate shooter...there's those doggone hoops again. All of those long cases can be made to shoot, I'm not implying they can't. For me they were always more work than I wanted to invest....and that's all a personal thing. Once you get the load they are a hoot...and can eat a pound of powder pretty quick.

Paul mentioned the 45-90 and it's obviously part of my moniker. I've had a Shiloh so chambered since....at least the early 1990's. It was pretty easy to get an accurate load with but I'd been shooting a 45-70 for 20 years already. Nothing in the lower 48 is going to walk away from a 45-90 and a heavy bullet if well hit. 'Course the very same thing is true of the 45-70.

pacecars has a pretty good idea I believe. Get a 45-70, learn it and if you want something bigger it's just a matter of having the chamber reamed.

Thanks for all the input and advise. Seems a great idea to start with the 45-70 with all the advantages. May never move up to the bigger one!! I do know that I will look at myself and see if I am up to the task, thanks.

In my opinion the .45-110 is more caliber then needed. In my opinion the .45-90 will do just fine for everything. The .45-70 is popular but the 90 will take over when the 70 drops off.
My personal preference is a .44 caliber over the .45 or the .50-90 for that matter as much as I have used the 50 for many years.

For hunting the .44-77 is a great chamber. I put three Bisons in the freezer and I have never recovered a .44 bullet using it. They all passed right through and kicked up a lot of sand on the other side.

The .45-90 has kept me in the top 15 and better several times at the Quigley in some very tough winds and the 90 did just fine.

Consider this.....if recoil is a problem for you I would go to some powder shoots or if you know someone that has a rifle see if you can pull the trigger on one. The lesser case capacity calibers might be a better choice and you will enjoy shooting the rifle.
Kurt

If I might add to that, when you DO get your Sharps, get one with the shotgun buttplate. You do NOT want a crescent buttplate! Crescent buttplates take the fun out of it, right now!

It's all about enjoying what you've accomplished.

Ed

Boy I can second that!!! My 45-2.6 Ballard 1 1/2 Hunter is NOT fun to shoot off a bench or rests with a 520 gr. bullet, even in that 10 1/2 lb. rifle. If a fella could shoot a pitch fork, that's what it reminds me of.

One other very important thing we forgot to mention though, you can't stop at just one Shiloh. It does not work that way.

So far, I've been able to avoid it. It's been easier after my visit to the Shiloh factory in Big Timber and the reception I received from the two women in the office. Disappointed and underwhelmed are understatements.

Ed

The recoil is a given unless you load it down but that doesn't do this big gun chambering any justice..The 110 is a big hungry BP cartridge which excels launching the heavies faster than its smaller cousins with devastating penetration and knockdown power. When I deer hunt I'll never take a shot with other animals behind or beyond as I firmly believe it would easily shoot through more than two at a time.The Shiloh always draws a crowd at the range especially with the very intimidating PP loads and I have very few takers when asked if they'd care to shoot a few !

The .45-70 is seldom a mistake. For me at least, the .45-90 has likewise not been a mistake. I have a Shiloh #1 and an original High Wall.

My next BPCR will probably be either a 1877 in a lighter caliber, taking advantage of the lighter action, or another 1874, in .45-90

The 45-110 was historically a pretty short lived cartridge. It's got some horsepower, and the recoil that goes with it. If it's the cartridge you dream about, do it.
Starting out, the 45-70 is easy, with brass and dies available everywhere.
The 45-90 is probably the cream of the crop for an all around bpcr cartridge, it can be loaded down to 45-70 levels with blackpowder, but when loaded to full potential will do anything that needs done at long range.It was actually used more than the longer 45 cartridges in the creed moor days.
But having said all that the cartridge that really made the Sharps rifle famous and was probably the most popular back in the day is the 44-77, and with good reason.
If you go with a 45 xx I would suggest going with the 16 twist barrel if you go with anything longer than the 2.1 case.

I've got one for sale that will probably beat anything out there! If you're interested give me a hoot at:

Sharpsman1940gmail.com

Got a couple .50s for sale also!

Got lots of brass/dies/whole shooting match!

If one sticks with the 110, I'd for sure suggest getting a fairly heavy unit. I have a 70 and a 90. With 540+ grain slugs, they're the only rifles I own that I can actually sense torque when lighting them off. A 110 or 20 is getting into the man's man world if one is going to go through some extended strings. Any Shiloh, however, is seriously cool. I think they're the absolute best production arms company in the US for fit, finish, and service.

SOLD!!