Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles if starting over, which reloading dies?

I have been reloading for nearly forty years. I have a mixture of reloading dies which include RCBS, Redding, and Lyman and have gotten usable service from all brands. I have recently (last three or four years) been favoring RCBS mostly due to the sizing dies having a vent hole which seems to help prevent shoulder dents. I know that too much lube, or different brands of lube can add to neck and shoulder dents, but as I stated it seems that the problem is lessened when using RCBS dies. Am I wrong thinking this? And the main question; if knowing what you now know, what brand of Reloading Die would you chose if you had to start over and WHY? Not talking specialty dies. Just standard handgun and rifle dies. I look forward to knowing your preferences.

If I was restricted to one brand, two die sets for my rifle cartridges I'd get Forsters with the neck portion of the FL size die honed to suit the brass I use.

Used to be that all I bought were RCBS dies. Over the years that's changed. Now, when looking for dies, I tend to lean toward Redding or Forester. I like the fact that I can add a micrometer to the seating die, whereas that's not always the case with RCBS. Hornady offers a micrometer for the seating die, but I'm not impressed with their quality

I started with RCBS, but slowly have changed to Redding. I recently bought a Redding bushing neck and body sizing die and it is really a step up IMO. I also like the Lee Collet Neck Sizing dies. The rest of Lee dies not so much.

I started out with the green machine and have never had any reason to change. I recently started using Lee collet neck sizers and like them very much especially because you don't need lube but RCBS has always delivered adequate accuracy for me for hunting and some competition reloading.

Redding.

RCBS dies have worked well for me for nearly 40 years.

RCBS, why change?

Forster

+1 Forster

LEE!

Redding. I knew and dealt with Richard Beebe for many years. Thought highly of him as the man knew his business.

I have used Redding dies and press for years started out with a big boss press and have not looked back. If I had to start over again I would be taking a serious look at Forster. Their design and location of the expander ball seems better to me and has a reputation for producing concentric brass they also have an awful lot of great reviews.

All that said Redding is great their customer service is great had two problems with them in all those years a full body die that was miss labeled and they promptly replaced and the 2400 case trimmer that I no longer use because I replaced it with the wilson sinclair micrometer unit which is just plain better. The 2400 trimmer is just not Redding quality IMO.

In short I would take a serious look at Forster and Redding is as good as it gets.

Good luck and shoot straight all

Bob

I was surprised to see "greg in temn: suggest Lee dies. I've used Lee dies with great results for close to 40 yrs. I would have recommended them if greg had not been ahead of me. I use RCBS and Redding dies also; but I have found that none of the higher priced dies produce more

accurate ammo than Lee dies. I load mainly for deer hunting ammo, so don't usually load more than 20=40 rounds at a time. YMMV from mine, but not recommending LEE's as do all product, rather saying they are damned good products that should be considered especially for a


new reloader trying to save oney as they learn,

I’ve got a little bit of everything. But I prefer Forster’s. Hasbeen

I have a bit of all of the brands. My experience leads me to RCBS first and Redding second for rifle dies. For handgun dies RCBS, Redding, and Hornady in that order. This is a reflection of design first and support second. IMO RCBS and Redding are the gold standard in customer support. Forster is good in CS too.

RCBS, Redding and Dillon.

Over the years, I've used RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Simplex and Hornady and never had a problem with any of them. If starting over I'd use the same again.

^^^This^^^

And of those 3 brands, I prefer the Reddings for rifle dies.

First, I am a hunter and most of my reloading is for hunting. I do reload for a couple of benchrest rifles, but not for competition. Also, I reload for several calibers and I use RCBS, Redding and Lee dies and in some cases, I have dies from RCBS and Lee for the same caliber. All of the dies work well and have the ability to reload good, accurate ammo.

Over the past few years, I have been using Lee dies more often than the others. They are more economical and (for my needs) work as well as the others and are just as easy (or easier) to set up. I like the idea that most of the Lee die sets I use have have bullet seating dies that do not crimp. Instead, they include their great factory crimp die in the die sets. I am happy with dies from all the different manufactures but, I now use Lee dies more often.

If I was starting over, I'd have the knowledge of years of reloading. I assume that you mean regular dies for ordinary, off the shelf firearms. Every maker has good and not so good features.

I would buy buy whatever dies offered the best bang for the buck. I am definitely not brand loyal. I'd buy whatever's on sale, at a gun show, or Lee. You have to start somewhere, but most reloaders add other dies over time - extras like neck sizers, or additional seating dies for different bullet shapes. I know from looking at the dies on my shelf that they are a mix of five or six manufacturers.

But you want a simple answer. What dies would you buy?

I would start at the tables at gun shows. Dies can be had for much cheaper there, and some are brand new or lightly used. I wouldn't be brand specific. If I came across a set that I needed and they were inexpensive, I'd buy them. This is how I get additional seating dies and steel die rings. Even today, there are plenty of seating dies for $3 to $5 ea. There are a few dealers where I live that sell estate sale items.

Lee dies are the least expensive and work well. If I had to buy new from a place like Midway or Midsouth, I'd probably buy these. Lee doesn't make the best dies for every situation, but their collet and seating dies do a good job. And they include a shell holder. For me, their downside is the cheap, aluminum die rings.

I like Hornady's seater die with the floating sleeve. I also like their stackable die boxes. They are roomy, should you wish to store extra dies later. If I needed a new set and Hornady dies were on sale, I would be tempted to buy them.

RCBS, Redding, Forster all make good dies, but their prices are usually higher. Of the standard die sets, I do not think any of these stand out above the others. Especially for reloading hunting rifles.

Of course, your own preferences and prejudices take precedence.

I mostly make up a die set for a given caliber with mixed brands. Lee collet neck die, Forster seating die & a Redding body to bump shoulder back when needed.

If I were gonna go with one brand only, it would be Forster. Outstanding quality at reasonable price.

I have RCBS, Redding and Hornady.


If I had to start over, I would probably buy Hornady.

Redding sizing dies--even though some reason Redding won't put a vent hole in 'em,, and Forster seaters. I can't get my Forster sizing dies to make necks quite as straight as my Reddings.

Looks like I'm the only one that would make a substantial change. I've got mostly Redding, and quite a few RCBS. I would go with L E Wilson / Sinclair hand dies and Redding body dies. I'm slowly changing over to them. I don't have a complaint with Redding or RCBS, but I am able to reduce runout maybe because of the L E Wilson seaters, but maybe because of some other steps I've added to brass prep too. Looks like I'm on a limb by myself though.

You may the only person who would make a substantial change, but lastround asked about regular dies, not specialty dies.

Over the years, I have found that much of the prep and time that I used to invest, made no difference downrange with my hunting rifles. The difficulty with answering this question is what you use your firearms for - competition, hunting, or plinking. Requirements are different for each, as are people's perceptions of what must be done to shoot well enough to be successful.

One brand?

Forester.

Redding

Forester then Redding.

Not a lot of love here for hornady dies. All of the ones I have had worked great when set up properly. They very consistently bump shoulders back and their seating did does a great job of seating bullets straight and to a consistent length.

My choices are evolving over the winter . ( I actually have a WTB ad up now looking for dies ) Most of the dies I have are RCBS, but I have a few sets of Redding , only one Hornady set, and a few Lee collet dies. To do it all over again I'm sure I'd still have a few different brands, but for serious paper punching I am replacing the sizers I have with Forster FL sizer dies. I'll follow that by seating with a arbor press and L.E. Wilson seaters.

The Lee collet dies are a good bang for the buck, but you still have to shoulder bump now and then and I think with neck sizing you can get to a point that the case is to tight and is binding . I still feel FL sizing is the best way to go, but with a die neck honed to work with your specific size prepped brass, so i'm heading that direction. Reloading is something that you'll end up with 2 of everything in your quest of bettering your craft.

Forster is my first choice followed by Redding second.

Lee collets and Redding body dies

I have more disposable income now then when I started reloading, so I would go with Forester dies.

I moved away from a wall full of rcbs dies . I prefer Forster , followed by Redding . I use Lee collet neck dies and factory crimp dies .

Forster got it right with the expander location / setup . They will hone your neck to suit your brass for a minimal fee . To my knowledge they are still made is the USA , as well as Redding . I don't know about Lee ... but rcbs isn't anymore , if country or origin matters to you .



Forster co-ax press really made me happy as well , though I don't care to use it with the Lee collet dies due to the shell holder "jaws" setup

I use many brands of dies, mostly because I want to try each and see what advantages/disadvantages each has. All can produce very good, straight ammo if other aspects of handloading are adhered to.

The few dies that absolutely sucked were, oddly enough, RCBS dies made in the USA a few decades ago. For a while they made their FL resizing dies for many common cartridges by first reaming the case body, then reaming the case neck in a separate operation. As an example, they'd ream the ".30-06 bodies" in .25-06, 6.5-06, .270 Winchester, .30-06, .338-06 and .35 Whelen sizing dies, then later ream the neck portion, depending on demand.
They did the same with .308-bases rounds, and some others.

As a result, the neck portion could be out-of-line with the body portion of the FL die. I eventually ended up with three of these out-of-line sizing dies, which as you might imagine didn't tend to make very accurate ammo, before an older guy in the business informed of what the problem was. I was just getting into using a bullet concentricity gauge, and tested a few cases sized in each die, with the expander ball removed. Sure enough, the necks were measureably out-of-line with the case bodies.

One of these was a .358 Wincheer die purchased new in a sporting goods store in the late 1970's, and another an older .280 Remington purchased used at a gun show. But the one that really got to me was a CUSTOM .338-06 die, also ordered in the late 1970's, before the round became a SAAMI cartridge. I paid a pretty steep price for the .338-06 dies, when I was still going to college part-time and the price was a real stretch.

Anyway, for those who might pick up used dies at gun shows or garage sales, be forewarned. It's been a while since RCBS used this technique for making sizing dies, but they still show up now and then.

If Redding would put a relief hole in there die to relieve vacuum would prefer them, and a square side to use a wrench rather than pliers!

I prefer to use a Lee Collet die, then a Redding body die any more.

RCBS had those quality issues in the late 1970s. That was in the CCI, Speer, RCBS, Blount, Omark days, when those companies were buying and selling each other. Vernon Speer had just died. I bought a set of 30-06 RCBS dies that were crap. Once bitten, twice shy.

Even though that was a while ago, I haven't bought any RCBS die sets since, except for a 303 Epps set in the early 80s. There was quite a kerfuffle over RCBSes QC issues. The positive thing I took away from that experience was to pick and choose what went on my reloading bench. As a result, all of my die sets became a mix.

In the late 1970s, I came to appreciate Lee Loaders more. I had been using them for 7 or 8 years, but didn't realize that simple was often better.

I was almost shamed into ridding myself of the Lee Loaders I had, by other, older shooters. Thank goodness I kept them. The RCBS QC problem made me realize that it would be foolish to get rid of my LLs. They were well made and produced good ammunition. They were simpler and cheaper than traditional die sets, but as we all know, they were slower and only neck sized. That is not necessarily a disadvantage for everyone, but time marches on. I stopped using the LLs when Lee introduced the collet die.

Lee Collet die
Redding Body die
Forster Seating die
Lee Factory Crimp die

If I don't want to put that set together, then just buy a Lee 4-die Deluxe Set and be done with it.

Are you guys that are using Redding body dies and Lee collet dies bumping the shoulder back every time, or just when you "feel" it needs it?

Every 4 loadings, or so. When chambering gets tight, the shoulder gets bumped.

As Jordan mentions about every 4 loadings, but it can depend on the load and particular rifle.

I use Redding NK dies because they are less sensitive to variations in neck wall thickness than LCD's and size necks very straight. In some instances straighter than the LCD even when I segregate brass for uniform neck wall thickness. Most of the time I no longer measure neck wall thickness until I size a case that ends up with a crooked neck, which always turns out to have a large variation in the wall thickness. Saves a step measuring wall thickness and I get a large batch of brass instead of smaller batches of segregated "secondary" brass.

Plus two out of the four LCD's I own don't size enough neck tension to hold the bullet firmly............

^^^^This

I started reloading 35 years ago, and we bought what was at the store (RCBS). I've come to appreciate what I think is good value from Lee. I especially like having a shellholder in the die set as well as their fancier sets where you can get a collet die, LFCD, etc.

I let the rifle tell me what it wants. I load for a friend's 308 that does great with neck sized brass for repeated firings, but I have a couple that do their best with the shoulders bumped a wee bit every time.

That’s a really easy fix. Chuck the mandrel in a cordless drill, put a drop of oil on it, wrap in 320 grit sandpaper & spin for about 20 sec. then mic it to see how much you took off. I take off .001” & try it then another .001” if that’s not enough. I’ve never had to take off more than .002”.

You shouldn’t have to do it but that along with deburring/lubricating the collet fingers are needed to get good results.

I’ve also started skim cutting the necks on almost all my brass. Most necks are all over the place, even on the supposedly good brass. I have some Norma 7mm rem mag that the necks were awful but some 300 win mag I just got is pretty good.

I'm hoping the switch to a honed FL die does it all in one step with minimal sizing and near zero runout. I'll probably have to anneal every time or 2nd time to keep the bump the same as well.

That's what I've read on here and I have to get around to trying it!

Thanks for the info on the measurements!

About half of the rifles I load for I PFLR with Redding FL dies, just bumping the shoulders back a tiny bit each time, .001 usually, and have good results with concentricity.

If I was starting out, I'd buy Lee collet dies and Redding body dies. I've been using Redding seaters and results are okay, but I am trying out Forster seaters on my .22 cenetrfires to see what I can see.

For handgun dies I'd use Redding exclusively, and mostly for the expander. The only other handgun dies I've used were RCBS and their expander left a tapered area in the case neck such that it was easy to tilt bullets during seating. Bear in mind that the last set of RCBS handgun dies I bought were back in the 70's so maybe they've changed that. In any case, the Redding die has a short straight portion that expands the neck evenly in circumference with a slight flare right at the case mouth. This guides the bullet in more straightly and gives a nice square ledge inside that helps to support and square up the bullet base before and during seating. From what I can feel a Lyman M die acts the same way so I use those for cast bullet loading in rifles.

I am buying Forster now. I have a Co Ax press and seem to get less run-out with it than I did with my Rock Chucker. I think the press has more to do with it than the dies. I recently loaded up some 30-06's with RCBS dies and the Co Ax press. All were very good on run-out. Those loaded with the Rock Chucker had to have their run-out corrected.

Buy the best dies you can afford... that's not Lyman...

Same as the others RCBS and now Lee and Forster. The RCBS have worked for me for over 50 years. If I want less run out I would consider honing the dies to your rifle or custom dies from Whidden, C4HD or others. Or go to a full benchrest setup like the Wilson or Harrell dies and an arbor press. I would only up grade if there is a problem and then only that specific die be it a sizer or seater. I have been surprised by Lee dies many times. For some I can only get the collet die as a set with a seater. I loaded half with Lee half with Forster Competition seator and I could not tell the difference. Whatever run out there was is probably operator error and the only way I could reduce it would be to cull cases tighter and/or trim necks, not worth it for hunting ammo.

Thanks to all of you who responded. I have always been impressed by Redding’s quality. I have never tried Forster (may need to change that). And the only reason I have leaned toward RCBS is the vent hole in the full-length sizing dies. Only talking rifle dies here, but appreciate the handgun die comments. I guess another answer to neck and shoulder dents (besides minute amounts of Case lube) is the use of bushing style neck dies and a bump body die. I will give that a try on my 223 brass. It seems like the answer to my original question is Forster and Redding.

LEE

Some of the best groups out my rifles were made with Lee dies.

Now that being said, the RCBS X-die that eliminates the trimming of rifle cases is the best idea in a very long time. I have a set for every rifle caliber I reload for except 300 black out. The X-die is a MAJOR time saver for lots of brass as in .223. For hunting rifles it works just great. Have I had the depriming pin break on the X-die, YES, which absolutely sucks. But other brands also break too.

The Lee depriming unit with a single hardened pin that just slides up and does not bend or break is the best part of that particular die. That pin bends or breaks to often for the money paid to have that happen. Its old and outdated. Lee is a huge improvement on a progressive like my Dillon 650, its a godsend to have that Lee die that wont break.Why pay more? If they do exactly the same job even better?

Had I known then what I know now about the economy of a tool I would have easily started with Lee dies. I do have RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, Dillon. They are all good for what they are. Some sets were given to me but I know how much they cost.

With Lee RGB dies (green box) for $19.00 shipped from Amazon is gravy for a beginner. You basically get a "micro seater" with the Lee anyway as it is simple to just screw it up or down without spending more money on something. Other die makers wont just redesign to eliminate that....but they are "in it" for the money so....

As far as smoothness that would go to Redding.

Best

Heavy

+1

Easy to fix. Polish down the de-capping rod or order a smaller one from Lee. I also polish the fingers to not mark the case and size smaller if I need too.

Carbide or diamond drill will create a vent in any die. But far easier to use dry lube such as mica, imperial with only what is on your fingers or a blue shop towel, or Hornaday one shot spray lube. I have dented my fair share with an RCBS lube pad or using STP for lube. No I haven't tried Astro Glide but most of the others.

Forster....

Redding or Forster. Good forever with just a little care.

I started with RCBS as a beginner. The dies worked fine however lots of reading always leads to curiosity and so of course I had to try different dies and different methods. Grin! My next dies were Redding Bushing Dies and them is expensive but I had only bought for one cartridge so I still had some money. After a year of experimenting with the new Reddings that nearly broke the bank someone explained that there was a die that only cost $20 and it made ammo straight as an arrow. Hell, I could afford that so why not try the lee collet neck die for one of my RCBS cartridges so I ordered one in 270 Winchester. It were only about a year into that program and I was likeing the fact that case lube was only a rare occasion. I also quite turning the necks because the lee neck die sized down to the inside of the neck not the out side like the Redding Bushing Die. In my opinion I was getting Redding bushing Die quality in terms of Run out only with far less work involved. At some point into that program I decided to get Redding body die to bump the shoulder without inducing Run out to the neck of the brass as I'd seen with my RCBS dies with expander ball. I finished off with Forster Benchrest Seater dies

Eventually I sold most my other dies and replaced everything with...........

Lee Collet Neck Die
Redding Body Die
Forster Benchrest Seater Die

I also have one Redding Competition Seater Die but prefer the Forsters

If I ever found a rifle that much prefered PFLS every time I think I'd go with a two die set of Forsters that Mathman mentioned and have the neck portion of the FL sizer honed to match my brass

I would also add that as another poster already mentioned I found positive results when I eventually upgraded from my Rock Chucker to the Forster co-ax press as far as Run out is concerned and I considered it a real bonus that I could swap dies in matter of seconds literally. It certainly fit my don't want to lube, turn necks, take forever to change a die mentality and I find loading up a batch of 50 rounds takes part of an evening instead of several. Life Is Good!!!


Trystan

I would buy and use the Lee collet die set.
I’d add a Redding body die for use every few loads, assuming I didn’t want to buy new brass.

If there was some reason (not at all likely) that I couldn’t make myself use anything but an all-in-one FL sizer in a 2-die set, I’d buy and use Forster.

I have several brands but Redding is my favorite. Probably 9 out of ten dies sets I own are Redding.