Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Success with sub 30 caliber non magnum cartridges

When Hunt America was going great guns with 50,000 hit a day I asked for people who had hunted two continents over twenty years with different cartridges if there was any noticeable difference in killing effectiveness in calibers from 6.5 and up. The general consensus was they didn't see any difference until they got BIGGER than .375H&H.

It's been mentioned more than once on this forum that John Haviland and his sons have killed over 30 elk with their 7mm-08s firing an assortment of 140 grain premium bullets. The 7x57 is essentially identical to the 7mm-08 and the .280 is roughly 200fps faster with the same bullets, so have perfect confidence that what you're using is just fine.

I was along for the adventure with three different hunters over the last two weeks, all cow elk. All Montana breaks hunting. We do not shoot magnums and I can't think of any close friends shooting magnums, except one shooting a 257 weatherby for the last 30 years, on lots of elk.

1st was my brother, he is shooting a 270 Kimber Montana. We got into elk with the closest at 416 yards. He is an executive in Seattle so doesn't practice much- he missed. He went back into the same spot the next day and shot one at 200 yards.

My wife went into the same spot the very next day and shot a cow at 240 yards. But only after she missed at 340. They circled and bedded back down one ridge over.7mm-08 120 ttsx.

Saturday I took my 70 year old neighbor back into same spot. We found them at 400 but tried a sneak. We had them at 290 but they moved off to about 400. He missed with a 30-06 150.



My .02 is practice, both cartridges are more than adequate. It is all up to the nut behind the bolt. Practice builds confidence. A lighter recoil rifle makes practice far more pleasant. I try to get family to shoot 100 rounds a year, I am not successful. We all want to be deadly at any range but it takes practice. The worst feeling is laying down for the shot and thinking gosh I have never shot this far.

A range finder is really helpful, mountain or even prairie distances can be deceiving.

Exercise is probably my second suggestion. Sometimes a bit of hustle is really helpful. Break in the boots! My wife's Fitbit registered 14 miles on her hunt, seven miles the next day to take out meat.

I booked a bc moose hunt for 2019, I have the same questions on what cartridge.
I have my fingers crossed for the Whittakers special 280 Barrett Fieldcraft.

K

Killed the bull in my avatar with a .30-06 and a 168TTSX if I remember right. This years bull went down with a .270 and 150NP. Yours will do the same if you hit them right. I wouldn't change a thing, you probably shouldn't either.

interesting replies, thanks. A summation of bullets referenced (roughly most to least): Partitions, Accubonds, TTSX, Nosler BT, Sierra Game Kings, Corelokts, ELD-X

My 12-year old son shoots a Savage Sierra in .308 Win. Factory loads in 150 gr knock him around pretty good. So I loaded a 150 gr. Partition to about 2500 fps.

One dead cow elk at about 150 yards, hard-quartering, frontal shot, punched through the sternum into chest cavity and beyond. Dropped at the shot. No doubt on a broadside shot would have done the job as well.

I shoot Federal Premium 140 grain partitions in my 7x57 (I also hand-load, but did not do so this year, as I got a couple of boxes of the factory rounds very cheaply). I have no problem shooting an elk with that, even though it's a mild load.

The 140 partition in the .280 is like more-better version of the 7x57. You could go up to a 160 Partition easily.

With my two kids, the main thing I felt was most important was a lot of practice rounds the summer preceding the fall hunting season. Range time, and hunting ground-squirrels with reduced loads all summer saw a big improvement in their shooting skills from field positions.

[quote=szihn]Physics?

I am to a point in my life that I enjoy the gun more then the caliber. If I have enough to do the job, that's all I care about as far as caliber goes, but the gun I carry has to please me in the hunting and carrying. So I don't really care what caliber I have as much as what bullet it's loaded with.

I'm at the same place "Young Man", ha. I love a lively rifle so I also match the size/power of the scope I put on it. My all time favorites are the 1x5 or 2x7, 2.5x8 size. We are talking elk hunting of course. Out on the short grass prairies where the wind blows me around, I like a heavier rifle with a bigger scope....but that's a rarity for me...most of my hunting is in mixed cover. I've only shot 3 cow elk out here, one at 135yds (running,I hate running shots too!) one at 200 and one at 250...that's it. I have shot Plains game in Namibia right at 375yds, and one Black Wildebeast at 347 in south Africa. All the other PG I took was between 30yds and 100yds or under. Yes, a couple at 250 but I could have gotten closer. But a rifle is ( or should be in my opinion) a very personal thing and a man should know his limits, not just for range but for the 'type of shots" he is most likely to get where he hunts. How quickly can he get in a solid shooting position, on target then pick the spot he wants to hit, squeeze instead of jerk the trigger and then keep shooting until the elk stops moving ,etc.? I call it "taking your time in a hurry". I personally just "like" to hit elk size animals with a lot of thump, I like to break them down "right there" if at all possible. For me, my favorites have been 300 Win Mag/180 Barnes; 338WM; 340W, 338 RUM, 35 Whelen AI and .375 H&HBut, but most of my hunting pards all use .308 (150gr), .270 (150gr), .280 (150PT) 30-06/180, 7mm Mag/160-175, 8x57/200gr, 7mm08/140, 6mm Remington/100gr, 240W/95PT, .243/Barnes 100, a couple 30-30s thrown in, ha. My personal rifles "right now" are a .270 BAR ( my "heavy" rifle), a 7x57 Mod 700 Classic, Ruger 77 All Weather a 338 Federal and I have another Ruger 77 in 338WM coming. So, the OPs 280/7x57 are most likely in a lively rifle that they are familiar with. I just am not aware of many choices in factory ammo in 7x57 with a strong bullet (like the Partition) at good speed except the Norma 156, Nosler 140E-Tip and the Hornady SF 139GMX',which is readily available via Internet ( I bought some Norma 156 through Cabela's but the two mono bullet loads are just fine IMO.) My one friend used the Federal Premium .280/150PT for years. Good luck and have a ball!

Off the top of my head, I have killed elk with:

6mm Rem-100 grain Speer BTSP
.25-06 Rem-110 Accubond
6.5x284 NORMA-140 AMAX and 140 hunting berger
.270 Win-130 grain winchester factory loads and 150 grain speer hot cor.

As much as I dearly love my .340 WBY, I can't really say that any of the elk I have taken with standard sub-.30 rounds reacted any differently than they did when I used my .300 H&H, .340 Wby and .375 H&H, which I have killed elk with too. Bullets make much more difference than what round throws the bullet out there...but there's no reason to beat that dead horse.

I used to assume that bigger was better. I have since learned that bullets matter far more than headstamps, and that a 22 cal bullet through the vitals is going to kill just as quickly as a 45 cal bullet through the vitals, given some parameters regarding the bullets. In some instances, the 22 cal bullet is going to be MORE effective than a 45 cal bullet, even on elk-sized critters. Most of the elk I have seen killed or partaken in killing have dropped to sub-30's. Why is that? Because that's what we were carrying. I have also seen sub-30's fail on elk. an another shot be required, but it was not the fault of the caliber, but of the bullet. Putting an appropriately constructed bullet through the lungs of an elk is going to bring it down. More isn't necessarily better, because more isn't required. I can understand preferences and comfort factor and other subjective experiences being factors in one's personal decision, but attempts to justify those subjectives in objective terms are where these caliber arguments nearly always go astray.

As for bear, I'd likely want a bigger gun to use in a self-defense situation than I would carry for elk hunting. But I doubt a grizz would care if a .375" 270gr bullet broke his spine, or whether a 160 gr .284" bullet or 130 gr .277" bullet did. Either way, his attacking days have ended. And if the CNS is missed by either bullet, someone is likely getting maimed or killed.

So again, we are back to it: it's all about bullet construction and bullet placement, with headstamps and calibers not just taking the backseat, but stuck in the trailer being pulled behind. I'd not feel undergunned with pair of .284 cal rifles loaded with Partitions hunting for elk in bear country. Hell, the 7x57 has killed thousands of tons of elephant alone during its time in the field. And I do understand the desire to carry a big-bore lever gun into the timber, though it isn't required. I carried a 444 or 44 Mag in Marlins when pursuing elk this past season. It's fun, and they are very effective for close shots. Don't underestimate the Fun Factor!

Dodger: Good luck on next years venture!
I have killed Elk with my 280 Remington calibered Rifle and in fact did so with the wonderful Nosler 140 grain Partitions.
Haven't used the 7x57 to Hunt Elk with to date so won't recommend that - but the 280 Remington with carefully placed 140 grain Nosler Partitions WILL kill Elk.
Again best of luck to you two.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hunt them with a bow or muzzloader for a few years, then report on which center fire rifles and bullets you're disadvantaged with.

I can't count how many times I've wished for ANY rifle. Perspective I guess.

I have never taken an elk. However, I have taken a large red deer stag with a 270 and 150 grain handload with no problems at all. A 30 caliber is not necessary - go hunt and have fun.

This should be the banner at the top of every forum on this site.

Ed

.......................................I believe that you will be just fine with your 280 and 7x57. I know many who have used non magnums smaller than 30 caliber.

On the next hunt in a year or two and for the first time using smaller than 30 cal I'll be using a 28 Nosler.......Hey! I don't see "magnum" after the 28 Nosler.....LOL

Next fall I hope to get after elk again in Montana and it will probably be with my custom .284 which is really just a shorter .280. I've taken one with the 30/06 at 400+ yards although that bull needed a finisher -- my fault, not the 06's. I've also taken two cows, one with a 45 Colt and the other with a 45/70.

I was a "Magnum guy" for quite a while and took eleven bulls with 340 Wby and loved it for its effect. Even though it wasn't that heavy I got tired of its 8.5 lbs all-up . My .284, scoped, goes into ~ 6.3 lbs. I have no doubt about its effectiveness -- a 140- or a 150-gr bullet placed through the lungs will put the biggest bull asleep. And it will carry like a dream.

I may just call it good and shoot a rag horn so I can do some trout fishing.

6.5 Swede. 127 LRX under 48 grains of 4831sc.

Bullet entered behind right eye and exited the same place on the off side. Golf ball size hole. Not sure I’d recommend the lrx for head shots specifically, but you take the shot you have.

Im no elk expert, but with todays awesome bullets calibers like 7mm/08 and 7x57mm I would think would do fine if you make good shots and don't expect the bullet to penetrate from stem to stern. I chose the 338wm for elk because #1-I'm not the least bit recoil shy I figured there is no down side to shooting a very powerful caliber like the 338wm and #2-With a premium bullet there is no such thing as a bad shot angle with a 225 grain .338 #3-EVERYTHING I read and every elk hunter I spoke with all said the 338wm is THE elk caliber back in 1993 when I bought my M700 in SST/SYN W/DBM.

I shot a cow elk at 297 yards with 20" barreled 308 Win. Bullet was a 180 gr Nosler Solid Base.
Thru ribs and lungs, thru off side shoulder blade and lodged under off side hide.
Went down pretty quick,
She absorbed ALL the energy. Don't know why you need any more than that.

my son killed a monster bull elk with his bow ,arrow went clean thru bull,elk went 125 yards fell over dead.typical 6x6 scores 380 b.c. its big.no you don`t need a big bore or a magnum to kill elk. my cow elk this year went 30 feet fell over dead shot with a bow.

Actually......I've shot elk and witnessed elk shot from stern to stem with a 30-06, 270, and 7mmRM, and Partitions. And the one I shot with a 270 w/ 150 NPt was the heaviest bull I've ever killed and one of the heavier bulls I've ever seen killed--roughly 750-800 lbs.

I've watched my son shoot an elk from front portion of the hip to the front of the off shoulder with a 243 and a Partition.