Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Talk Me Into or Outta Buying This Scope

Let me first say i've never been a huge fan of Leupold scopes. Has a couple and never kept them long, always seemed to be insufficient eye relief. However, i'm looking for a new scope for my E.R. Shaw built 260 Rem. The majority of my shooting will be in low light conditions, early a.m. and near dusk. I currently am using a Burris 2-12x56 with illuminated dot reticle, but i'm really intrigued with the Leupold VX-5HD 3-15X56 CDS -ZL2 with the FireDot 4 Fine reticle. Bulk of shooting will be on whitetails from 100-400 yards. Never spent $1000.00 on glass before, but ready to take the plunge.

The Leupold VX-5HD series is excellent that I am sure you'll enjoy. With any product there can be a few that slip through with an issue. No mfg is perfect, however, with the incredible amount of Leupold scopes sold each year their defect rate is actually very minimal.

FWIW, I have been speaking with the powers that be the last few days about the recent Leupold posts here on the forum and working with them in reference to QC and CS.

If any of you here have a Leupold issue, please always feel free to call me, whether you purchased it from us or not, and we will do our best to help you out.

If you ever receive any product from us that turns out to be an initial defective, we will get it straightened out ASAP.

I'd also take a close look at the Trijicon AccuPoint 4-16x50 if you don't absolutely need the 3x bottom end.

I also like the idea of the free custom turret.

Which models? With few exceptions Leupold scopes are the ones that have the good eye relief.

I've put several hundred rounds through a VX-R 3-9x40 with the Ballistic FireDot reticle on a couple of 30-06s and one 308. This reticle basically has two functions: an illuminated dot for use in low light, and plain black hash marks that indicate holdovers. The hashes disappear as the light gets low, so you can't use them to make long shots during hours of darkness, which is fine with me. (I'd get an illuminated mil-dot reticle for that.) That said, I like how easy it is to hold over with the hashes out to 400-0ish yards in anything remotely resembling legal shooting light.

This scope is product number 111236. Details at https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-r-riflescopes/vx-r-3-9x40mm/

30mm tube, actual magnification is 3.3x-8.6x, and the optical quality, smoothness of operation, and precision are typical for Leupold. I have not seen the QC issues with this scope (sample of one) that others report with other Leupold products. Reticle dimensions are about right for a hunting scope designed for use in low light.

Per the instructions for this scope (https://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/BAS_Inst_Manual.pdf) the dot itself is 1 MOA at 8.6x and 2.5 MOA at 3.3x. It appears as a short red vertical line, not as a circle or square. It’s bright enough to see in daylight without going to the highest setting. I wear glasses and I have astigmatism so the dot flares on the brighter settings. This is not a flaw in the scope; reducing the brightness fixes it. It’s hard to find truly dark situations around here since I’m in a major West Coast city, but the dimmest settings would probably be fine in very low light.

The horizontal crosswire tapers from a fairly heavy base to the same 1 MOA thickness as the dot. At 9x, the circle’s interior diameter is 4.4 MOA, the circle’s line width is 0.4 MOA, the distance from the dot to the top and bottom of the circle is 2.19 MOA, the distance from the dot to the middle hash mark is 4.8 MOA, and the distance from the dot to the lowest hash mark is 7.82 MOA.

The instructions list drop figures in inches for each of these elements. Leupold markets this scope with a diagram indicating that from a 200-yard zero, the bottom of the circle will be your 300-yard POI, the middle hash mark will be your 400-yard POI, and bottom hash mark will be your 500-yard POI. This diagram does NOT tell you is that this is only true for cartridges with a muzzle velocity north (in some cases well north) of 2,900 fps firing bullets with very high BCs. (See cartridge list on Page 45 of the instruction booklet.)

Leupold marketing materials are curiously silent about how to use other cartridges, so I sat down with the Federal ballistic calculator (https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics_calculator/) and their data set for 308 Winchester factory loads. I changed the muzzle velocity and BC to match my handload and environmental inputs, set the range increment to 10 yards, and selected “inches” and “MOA” for the elevation units. (My 30-06 launches a 180-grain Nosler Partition at 2,750 fps, so I also ran the numbers for that. The drops are essentially identical, so you should be able to crunch numbers like I did and use this method to find POIs for other cartridges.) This gave me a rough idea of where the hash marks might work, which I have verified to about 425 yards. That’s farther than I’ll probably ever shoot at a living target, so I’m good there.

This is a second-focal plane reticle, so changing the power setting changes the reticle dimensions relative to the image. You can use that to predict drops, but it’s hard to repeat precisely so I’d be cautious about shooting live targets this way, especially if I had to do it quickly. My method achieves the same thing without the repeatability issue.

Lessons Learned
1. This is a decent general purpose reticle once you figure it out and get the right zero. Most experienced and/or specialized shooters would probably choose something more versatile for routine use in very open country or anywhere that wind is a common issue.
2. My goal with this scope was to get an illuminated reticle and some ranging ability. I achieved those goals, just not in the manner that Leupold implied or advertised.
3. The crosshairs are fairly thick, which is fine for a hunting scope but makes it hard (for me, anyway) to shoot tiny groups at longer range.

I've shot this scope at dusk a bit, and I'm not yet convinced that the ring part of the reticle is right for my needs. I need more time using it in low light before I firm up any opinions on that aspect of it.

I bought this scope at a LGS where cost was just over $500. You might save a bit more buying online.

References
https://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/BAS_Inst_Manual.pdf
https://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics_calculator/
https://www.leupold.com/reticles/
https://www.leupold.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017_reticle_information.pdf

Let me know if you have questions.


Okie John

Last two i owned was a Vari-X III in a 3.5-10x40 and an Ultimate Slam with the Sabre reticle.

Just saw that Midway has VX6 scopes on sale in your budget range.


Okie John

Always talk to Doug at cameraland too, he has always had the best prices when I started comparing and actually talking to him or one of his guys to see what they could do.

The best way to see if you like it is to purchase one!!

Yep

If you buy it right, you could roll it over with little or no loss.

DF

In your price range you might look at the 56mm Meostars. Call Doug, he carries them too.

Further, if you envision using it without illumination, I'd opt for a reticle in the first focal plane. In low light, you'll get the best resolution at higher magnifications. With a reticle in the FFP you'll also get a larger more distinct reticle at higher magnification. I have a Kahles 3-12x56mm with a No.1 reticle in the FFP that I use for coyote hunting at night. This is a popular configuration in Europe where hunting hasn't traditionally been restricted to daylight hours as it is here. Regardless, Meopta offers 56mm Meostars with reticles in both FFP and SFP varieties.

I have heard a lot of gripes about Leupold scopes, but insufficient eye relief is not one of them.

I was thinking the same thing. Might want to do some hands on comparisons before buying.

I really like the VX-5 HD I won from Doug (and Leupold). It's a 2-10 and very bright; a very nice scope. Got my fingers crossed that it's going to be okay. The reticle is straight, anyway. Only has enough rounds in it for sighting in so far.

Appreciate Doug going to bat over the Leupold issues. A big retailer ought to pull some weight.

Being you're not a huge fan of Leupold scopes, I won't try to sway you otherwise. Seeing is after you purchase them you replace them with something else. To me, $1000 is a lot of dough. I'd be looking for a deal on another brand of illuminated scopes if my overall opinion of Leupold was as yours is. There's lot's of 'em.

Are you unhappy with your Burris?

Dan

I think a maker will listen to a big volume dealer. Another reason for shopping with those guys.

I have a couple of the VX-6 2-12x42 and like them. How does the VX-5 compare with the VX-6?

DF

Leupold won't listen to anyone. No matter who someone is, Leupold will not admit that there is a problem.

Biggest problem with a “head in the sand” posture, it leaves ones rear end exposed.

DF

Can't say offhand, other than it has 5-1 zoom instead of 6-1. I won this thing, didn't shop it. Hoping for the best, prepared for what comes.

Can't recall anyone saying if the Leupy faults are a result of poor design, poor materials, bad qc, or some devil's brew combination of some or all of those things. Whatever it is, it's fair to say they know all about it and are okay with it because the bottom line supports the staus quo. Don't need any scopes right now, so I'm riding out what I've got and will make decisions on replacements as needed.

Doug,

How does the VX-5 compare with the VX-6?

DF

As with the Swarovski Z5 vs Z6 the only real difference is the power ratio of the zoom
5 times zoom vs 6x
Quality of guts and glass are the same

I think that the Z5 and Z6 glass are the same in the lower power Z6 scopes but it is my understanding that Swaro uses HD glass in the Z6 scopes above 12X. I'm not 100% sure on the cut off power where HD glass is used. The erector assembly is the same I do believe.

Low light and fine reticle I don't think should be in the same post. Just this week my new 3-9x33 AO .22 rimfire Leupold came in with the Fine Duplex and honestly I think that it might even be too fine. I've nearly lost shooting at a deer in low light with the standard Leupold Duplex. I know you said lighted and on a larger scope, but I've not ever been a lighted reticle gizmo guy and at medium-high power with a second plane reticle, that fine crosshair is going to look very fine. I surely would not order one mail order without checking one out at the store first to make sure that it is going to work for you. Ask if they will let you take it outside at dusk, because they all look good across the store under florescent lights.

Doug, if you get a chance to talk to the Leupold marketing folks, please forward a few comments from a guy who has spent 15 years working in digital advertising for brands like Microsoft, Starbucks, and T-Mobile:
1. Fix your freaking website, especially how the reticle finder and the All Products pages drive users to specific scopes. That functionality does NOT work properly. Right now, the values I enter into the filters fall away after 2-3 searches. That makes it very hard to conduct an in-depth comparison of Leupold products, which is infuriating. I've discovered that the Schmidt & Bender and Nightforce sites don't have this problem, but if the Leupold site worked properly, then I never would have considered either of those brands.
2. You cheapen the brand when you stuff a holiday gift guide into the marquee. That's an email campaign, guys. Have some dignity and don’t wave a brochure under my nose on the home page.
3. Differentiate your offerings more clearly. If the only difference between the VX-5 and the VX-6 is the variable range, then say so. The existing content is not clear about this—it just looks like Leupold claiming that every scope they make is ideal for everything a shooter wants to do, which is not true. Give me actual reasons to choose a higher-priced scope over a lower-priced one, and make that reason something I can hang my hat on, not some product manager's bullshit list of superlatives and weasel words. Otherwise, I’m going to look for the feature I want (like an illuminated reticle) at the lowest possible price point and ignore everything else you say.
4. Thin out the offerings and simplify the names. Having 26 product categories with near-identical product names just confuses people. It doesn’t matter if they’re Red, Blue, and Green, just make it so they’re clearly different at first glance. Benchmade does a great job of this.

I've been using, trusting, and recommending Leupold products for decades, but the head office needs to fix some stuff with their brand RIGHT NOW.


Okie John

John,
As requested I have forwarded your post to the powers that be. I thought what you've written is well thought out, well written and concise. I will let you know what type of response I get
Thanks for taking the time. This is how issues get resolved

Thanks. I've always liked Leupold and respected how they did business. I hope they get through this rough patch soon.


Okie John

Good post, John. Well said.

Agree.

I hope Leupold listens to what John has said.

Hopefully the "bean counters" aren't running the show. That's one thing I always admired about Bill Ruger, he never let those guys control his company. When innovators, engineers and product developers lose out to strickly financial interests, just ROI, things tend to go south. There is no job, no industry with the sole mission of "making money". Just the govt. can do that, others are visited by Treasury Agents...

You make a product and if it's a good one, people buy it and you are rewarded, an honest profit results. Making money should never be considered to be the core business...

DF

Thank you for the kind words. I REALLY want to see Leupold turn things around.


Okie John

Agree with both okie John and Dirtfarmers post!
I too had a lot of trouble with Leupold's website and just gave up. They seem to believe the marketing BS that more products created results in more sales.
Like chain restaurants have found, you just create more complexity, both for your customers and the company, with a resulting loss of quality of execution, and eventually lower profits.

Like Bill Ruger did, build it right the first time, give the customer what they want, and profits and long term growth will result