Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 348 Bullet tests...moose verified

Its not always as simple as it seems with big game. Bears are a whole different animal with amazing tenacity to life. Dr. Stephen Herrero, U. of Calgary
and I have corresponded for a couple of years. He is the author of Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance. He generally goes along with the US Forest Service
recommendation of 338-WM-375 H&H, 458 WM. These are bolt action rifle calibers and there I slightly part company with the USFS. No bolt action can keep up with an 1886/Model 71 if aimed rapidity of fire is the desired result. The other challenge is the tendency to drop the bolt action slightly from the shoulder on repeat shots-especially with the long action 375 H&H. I have early Model 70s in 338 and 375 Holland. Without LOTS of practice-you lose time in bolt handling for re-chambering the next round. Coupled with a rifle off the shoulder that spells real problems. I have faced down bears in the lower 48 and Alaska. They are amazingly fast and can be on you before you can blink.

Harold Johnson , the originator of the 450 Alaskan, shot bears with the 30-06 and various calibers. He realized that a charging bear may be killed by a bullet from a lesser caliber,
but not before the bear evens the score with the hunter. There are cases on file. The idea is to STOP the bear with a shoulder down or broken-or possibly a center of mass spine/heart shot. Just last year in Glacier National Park-at the West boundry-a mtn biker slammed into a 6-yr old grizzly, rounding a curve. He was killed almost immediately by the bear. So...in bear country I carry a 450 Alaskan with 400 gr FP Hawk or Alaska Bullet Works bonded core bullets, in a 1936 pre-war Model 71. The old timers in Alaska
carried 1886 45-70s, 50-110s, and 405 1895 rifles for a reason. They lived to tell the tale.

Life is short, eat desert first and keep your eyes on the skyline-nose into the wind.

He also liked the 250 Silvertip. The 200 Swift A-Frame will out-penetrate the 250 Silvertip all day long, even when the Silvertip doesn't break apart it won't penetrate like the A-Frame. With modern bullets I think you can get by with less bullet weight.

I won't argue. I have been up close to big Grizzly and Polar bears and the muscular development and intimidation factor are pretty amazing. I'd be confident in the 348 but if I knew I was going into battle I'd have my 1895 in 405 Win (300g Woodleighs) in my hands, or my guidegun in 450 Marlin (405g Woodleighs). There is no replacement for displacement but if all I had was the 348 I could do a lot worse!

Great story. Have you tried the GS Custom bullet?

http://www.gscustomusa.com/348180HV242.html

North61 ,

Great story & pictures -I subscribed to your channel .

These big bore cartridges are really interesting , bought a H&R 444 a couples of years ago - love it .


How deep is the water generally speaking where you were ?
What motor is on your sons canoe boat ?

Really like the Ruger 450 you put together for your son too , that was a great video .

The water on the little series of lakes varies but is often quite shallow down to 6-8 inches in spots . Has a silt bottom which is unusual up here. We have a Suzuki 2.5 Horse on the small aluminum freighter. Water cooled so not ideal but it's a good motor. Quiet and lots of power in 30 pounds.

Nope..but they look pretty great!

North61 ,

Thanks , I have a yamaha 2.5hp on a Gheenoe 13' .

That ought to work quite nicely.

Think I'll take the 348 Bison hunting this year. The 200 Hornady FN and 4451 with mag primers shoot so well I start to wonder what would happen if I slipped one behind the front shoulder of a Bison.

my dear friend when he lived in Alaska always used a 338 w.mag. he felt that caliber knock bears down good enough and was easier size rifle to handle ,he said he had no use for the old Winchester levers in the bigger bores ,he said he preferred to kill his bears farther away if he could. this marine was a wounded frontline viet nam vet who patrolled with rock soldiers so he knew combat the hard way ! nice pictures and great story but always use enough gun on big bears ,bears die hard,when elk hunting in big bear country we all carried 338 win.mags.

I am a big fan of a pair of 358 Norma bolt guns I have used for a lot of hunting. For a long while these where all I used for moose. There is something to be said for the fast mediums. The impact of a GOOD 250 grain bullet at 2800FPS is a noticeable thing, (when well placed). However the 348 is so nicely balanced and pointable that in a hurry, I can shoot it a bit better. I can also make a fast repeat shot. It also turns out a 200 or 250 grain bullet at 2500 or 2250 is pretty noticeable too.

Too each his own! No quarrell with a bolt man and the great 338!

the 358 norma mag is a heck of a cartridge,i got a custom 350 rem.mag with a 24 inch barrel but both your gun and my 350 are hard to find shells for,i am a hand loader too but like the option of store shells available too, so if I hunt were big bears roam, I just use 338 win mag. ,but I do have a lot of respect for all norma mags. in big bear country I now may carry my new Browning BLR 300Win. mag this gun handle`s real fast and has plenty power too,with some long range capability, and here again stores carry plenty 300 win. mag ammo too.

Thanks..the water depth really depends on the lake or river. Often pretty shallow. My son has a Suzuki 2.5 on his canoe. Good motor.

Own an early pre-64 Model 70 in 375 H&H along with another pre-64 70 Alaskan in 338 WM-both original. They are excellent rifles for semi-open country elk and moose hunts.
In the thick Alaskan bush, however-I start reaching for one of the pre-war Model 71s. You must have a fast handling rifle if bruin is waiting by the covered up
meat pile. Their speed is astounding. Getting repeat shots into Mr. Grizzly is critical. Montague Stephens, William Wright, and Harold Johnson all wrote of close up and
personal encounters. I have had to back down a few and nothing under a 450 or 50 really is comforting.

North-do you know of anyone with experience using the 230 gr bonded North Fork bullet? Their weight appears ideal for the 348 WCF.

For years in the SE-have used the PokeBoat-a cross between a bidarka and a LA pirogue. its about 13 ft long and will carry dog and hunter in 4 inches of water.
A backup push pole or paddle set moves one quietly through any water. Weighs 35 lbs and can be carried under an arm-full length.

Great read and excellent videos sir. We have a kindred spirit with the same taste in rifles. In the early 80s I picked up a copy of a 1968 Gun Digest. I was drawn to the 600 Remington's. a few years later one of the guys that worked in the gun shop that also worked in told me he had someone selling a 600 in .350R,M. He knew I wanted one. I've had that gun for over 30 years. Have not seen any moose around Georgia yet to test it on, maybe with Global warming (LOL) they will be pushed down here. A similar story with the model 71 348. A fellow came into the shop wanting to give away a cartridge collection. In it I found a .348 Win round, it peeked my curiosity. It took the advent of the internet years later to find my first one. Not many Model 71 Winchesters made their way to Georgia back when they were being made, since there was very few deer around back then. One day in near future I'm retiring and moose is on the list.

I do like the 348 win. in a model 71 Winchester and I just took a deluxe 71 in trade at my shop, but when I am in real heavy cover and in bear country with a animal either down to pack out or on a blood trail if I have a choice of close range gun I`ll take my old Remington 870 pump 12 gauge with slugs , old shotguns might not have any class or look neat compared to any rifle but a 12 gauge pump shotgun with slugs will put the hurt on all bears at close range.