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Originally Posted by LFD
How many of you use a 270 for Elk what grain bullit are you using


Not me, wouldn't even consider using such an ineffective cartridge for elk. Don't even have one.




My .280 Rem, though, is about perfect for the ranges I normally take elk at. wink


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Originally Posted by Coyote_Hunter
Originally Posted by LFD
How many of you use a 270 for Elk what grain bullit are you using


Not me, wouldn't even consider using such an ineffective cartridge for elk. Don't even have one.




My .280 Rem, though, is about perfect for the ranges I normally take elk at. wink

Stirring the pot with a .007" stick. I like it.

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Other than my first elk which was shot with a .54 cal muzzle loader, all 17 of my elk have been killed with a .270 and 130 gr blue box Federal ammunition.


Why is abbreviate such a long word
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Shot my first elk with a 270 and a 150 gr. Speer Hotcor. No problem, roasted her heart cut into steaks skewered on sticks over a fire in -4 near Pinedale. Second elk with a 150 gr. hotcor out of a 30-06, roasted heart again but had salt this time. Living as a hermit in a small town that had two bars and two churches I teamed up with a guy that had no rifle but a strong back so I loaned him my 270 to hunt with. I stuck with the 30-06 and he the 270 for 6 years. We killed 12 elk with one shot apiece, him shooting the 150 Hotcor and I switched to the 180 Hotcor as I felt the 150 was too soft for elk. I don't know why but I switched to a 338 Win Mag for a couple of years and the first elk I shot with it provided the longest toughest recovery I ever experienced due to bullet failure, no expansion from a 250 gr. Sierra BTSP. The other elk hit the ground quickly. Carl still using my 270 thought my use of the scope killing and hard kicking 338 was funny, killed two more elk with one shot apiece with the 270. So then I traded the 338 in on a 300 Win mag. Two years in a row I carried the 26 inch barreled 9 pound rifle which actually was a fine elk killer but long and heavy. Sadly Carl moved back to civilization. I then started using the 270 still using the 150 gr, Hotcor and took two more elk in two years. I can't really say any of these rifles were better than the other though the 30-06 and the 270 weighed less and kicked less than the magnums. Next year I am taking a 270 loaded with 140 gr. Partitions. Moral; if you have a strong back you can carry elk off the mountain and back to the truck.


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My first Elk was a nice 5 point and I took it with my 270. I use 130 grain Accubonds in mine. Two of the last three Elk I took were with my 45/70, but last years bull fell to my 270 also. I have used the Accubonds for about 10 years and don't plan on switching. Don't fix what ain't broke.


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This internet Ballistic babble is fascinating......

We should be comparing running em off a cliff.....

Or harpooning them........

But it would piss the fish cops off about " party hunting"


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Originally Posted by Angus1895
This internet Ballistic babble is fascinating......

We should be comparing running em off a cliff.....

Or harpooning them........

But it would piss the fish cops off about " party hunting"



laugh


Casey

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Having said that, MAGA.
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Originally Posted by drakecasey
I've taken lots of elk with a .270, and I use a 130 grain Barnes TTSX. Very effective.



Excellent sentence structure compared to the original post.


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Took my first Elk with a 140 TTSX from a 7 Wby. Wouldn’t hesitate to use my 280 either.


Throttle fixes everything. If it doesn't fix the problem, it’ll end the suspense.
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Rickt300's post rings very true to me.
As someone with over 4 decades of experience in these things, I have said (for the record) a number of times that I cannot see ANY difference in the speed of killing between the elk I have killed, and seen killed, with 270s and those killed with 300 magnums and 338 magnums. In fact having looked at the wounds through and through the elk I have gutted, I can't tell much difference (if any) between the wound size of those killed with 308s, 30-06, 270s, 7MM Mags 280s, 300 magnums (H&H Winchester, Norma, Weatherby and Win Short), when we compare the best bullet used in each.

For the record, I do favor the larger bullets, but for no solid reason I can point to. 40 years ago when I had a LOT of reading under my belt and a little elk hunting, I was convinced the big guns were going to out kill the smaller ones on elk. 45 years later I have not changed my mine 100% but I have about 80%

I have learned that it's the bullet making the bullet hole, and the bullet HOLE is what's doing the killing. Any bullet of any weight that blows up and leaves the largest piece of the bullet at under 80 grains is NOT an elk bullet. I have seen a few "buffalo guns" using target/varmint bullets (even if the label on the box says different) that were not good for elk and I have written about them.
I have also seen many times a little gun (25-06, 257 Roberts, 6.5 Swede and so on) kill elk far better then the 7MM Mags and 300 mags when those magnums were loaded with target/varmint bullets.

Not all .277 diameter bullets are up to the task, any more than any bullets of any diameter are up to the task. But there are a lot that are.

I really like my big guns. I just LIKE them. But for killing elk I am not convinced any more that I need them. And I hunt where there are a LOT of grizzlies, so they act to some extent as a security blanket for me.

But until I get to the 375H&H I can't see ANY difference in the effectiveness of a 270 loaded with a good 150 or 160 grain bullet and any other gun I have ever used, or even seen used on elk. I have seen 130 grain and 140 grain bullets used too, but I have always killed them with 150s and 160s.

Yes, I can see elk drop faster when hit with my 375H&H then I have seen with smaller guns, but even that rifle is not all that much faster.

If I were offered 2 loaners for a all-expense paid elk hunt, and those 2 choices were a 257 Roberts loaded with 115 grain Barnes X bullets, or 120 grain Nosler Partitions, and a 300 Weatherby loaded with a Burger (ANY Burger) I would take the 243 without the slightest hesitation. 40 years ago I would not have taken the 257 and it's ammo, because 40 years ago I though I knew things that I later found to be untrue.

If we strip away the illogical "diameter warship" which is so pervasive in the shooting community we can start to see with open eyes.

The elk doesn't know or care what diameters the bullet started out. The wound that kills the elk is made by only 2 factors.
#1 is penetration.
#2 is cavitation.

The deepest any bullet can penetrate is 100%. Those are the ones that leave an exit wound. A deeper hole is seen with a quartering shot then a broad-side shot, but 100% is the goal.

So the only factor left (if we can get a through and through wound) is the size of the hole. That's cavitation.

Strong bullets that expand and don't come apart do both. Sure a 243" is going to leave a narrower wound then a 35 Whelen, but if both can get clear through and exit (even if bone is hit) then both will do the job. A wound from a 243 WINCHESTER WITH A GOOD BULLET IS "SMALL" BUT IT'S LARGER THAN THOSE MADE BY BIG BROADHEADS SHOT BY ARCHERS. THINK ABOUT THAT FACT.

I all likelihood the larger diameter hole is going to allow for the elk to bleed out to a degree the blood pressure drops below the point the brain can stay conscious. But if supporting bone is hit both the 243 and the 35 Whelen shot elk are going to simply drop.

My experience has shown me that a bullet from my 375H&H can be aimed at the off-side shoulder of an elk, regardless of it's body angle, and I can break that shoulder or at least exit the elk near it. That's not the case with bullets that break up no matter how big they start out. I have seen the same with 160 grain 270s and with 220 grain 30-06s

I have seen only a small handful of 243 kills on elk, but I have seen about 15 with 257 Roberts and 25-06 and with the correct bullets you can still get an exit on a big bull even when it's not broadside. That's not a Theory. It's a fact. I have seen it, several times.
The ones I have killed and seen killed with the 270s were all fast, and about half were instant.

I have seen a handful of what I'd call "poor performance hits" from 270 in my life and all were from hits on deer. Also every one was from a hit with a bullet that blew up without penetrating fully. Thinking back I can recall such failures from Sierra 130 grains (a few) the old original Nosler Ballistic Tips (pre- Ballistic Tip HUNTING labels) and every Burger I have ever seen shot to date. Now, not all the Burgers gave poor kills, but ALL (without one single exception) were total blow-ups. When you have a blow up that's perfectly placed even the worst bullets will kill dramatically.
My own Pastor had extremely poor results 2 seasons ago with his 270 shooting the Burger bullets and has now changed to 150 grain Nosler Partitions. This year he has fired 4 shots, 2 deer, 1 antelope and 1 elk. All bang-flops.

All is is a lot of words to say what I started to say way back when......
Worship or damnation of a diameter of a bore is rather stupid. It's not supposed to be a religion.

What works is deep wide wounds and good marksmanship. The tool is ALWAYS less important then the workman.

Use a bullet that weighs 80 grains or more when it stops (not when it starts) and shoot well, and you'll fill your freezer just fine.

But above all else, learn to shoot well and don't shoot at elk that are at extreme ranges where your hit is a "maybe". Shoot at the ones you KNOW you ca kill and never those you think you may be able to kill.

Big game is not the enemy. They are a blessing given by God to us all, and we ought to have a degree of respect for them as such. Brag to me about how you shot 5 shots on a milk jug at 800 yards and never missed one time. That's impressive. Telling me about your 800 yard kill on game only tells me (And everyone) you are not showing the respect of the game I believe we need to have, and you are only giving leverage to the anti-hunting crown to use against us all.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I can and I have, so I can't condemn those that still do, but I have grown up since then. Please listen to words of wisdom from others that made mistakes, so you don't have to make them yourself.

There are 3 kinds of people in the world.
The normal, average ones. They learn by their own mistakes.

The wise ones. They learn by the mistakes of others!


Then they are the fools. They don't learn at all.


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SZIHN,
You need not be a man of few words.


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+1

There are 3 kinds of people in the world.
The normal, average ones. They learn by their own mistakes.

The wise ones. They learn by the mistakes of others!


Then they are the fools. They don't learn at all.

I would add that a Wise man leans to the Right, a fool to the left.

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Originally Posted by Brad
So in other words you've never killed an elk.


Read the thread to right here and spit damn good, expensive whiskey all over my computer.

Elk round threads...geesh.


Nut


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SZIHN, Your wisdom is blatant. Kudos.

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Thank you sir.
But in all honesty I would not call my post "wisdom" It's more of a detailed report based on a lot of experience, not all of which was what it should have been.

Wisdom will be the posts written by those that learn by my mistakes.
They need not repeat them and learn the hard way as I did.


THAT'S wisdom!

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Originally Posted by szihn


I have learned that it's the bullet making the bullet hole, and the bullet HOLE is what's doing the killing. Any bullet of any weight that blows up and leaves the largest piece of the bullet at under 80 grains is NOT an elk bullet. I have seen a few "buffalo guns" using target/varmint bullets (even if the label on the box says different) that were not good for elk and I have written about them.
I have also seen many times a little gun (25-06, 257 Roberts, 6.5 Swede and so on) kill elk far better then the 7MM Mags and 300 mags when those magnums were loaded with target/varmint bullets.


The elk doesn't know or care what diameters the bullet started out. The wound that kills the elk is made by only 2 factors.
#1 is penetration.
#2 is cavitation.


I've killed approximately 35 elk with a 270 or 243 now. As I've have said on here often, if I had a choice between one of my 243's with a NPt or a 300 mag with a cup & core bullet I'd have a LOT more confidence carrying the 243.




Originally Posted by szihn

Big game is not the enemy. They are a blessing given by God to us all, and we ought to have a degree of respect for them as such. Brag to me about how you shot 5 shots on a milk jug at 800 yards and never missed one time. That's impressive. Telling me about your 800 yard kill on game only tells me (And everyone) you are not showing the respect of the game I believe we need to have, and you are only giving leverage to the anti-hunting crown to use against us all.


I've gave up saying that several years ago on the 'fire--critters ain't terrorists and we ain't Marine snipers.............


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Originally Posted by lynntelk
Originally Posted by lynntelk
I plan on using a 140 grain Swift A frame on a late September elk hunt in a pre-64 Model 70 featherweight. I'm not worried with either the bullet or the rifle.


413 Measured yards.
[Linked Image]

It came with ~3' of backstrap per side. That's a metal yardstick for reference.
[Linked Image]



That back strap is as impressive as the the antlers........!


Casey

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Having said that, MAGA.
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Originally Posted by Brad
Bill, when I first came to Montana in 1992 I'd read all the scribblings guys like Boddington had recorded about elk in the various gunrags through the 1980's. I was fairly convinced a small howitzer was necessary for elk. I'll never forget one fall evening I was driving South through Bridger Canyon when I picked up a hitchkiker sporting blaze orange and a rifle. He'd just come out of the mountains and needed a lift to his truck. I asked what he was packing, his reply was "308." I remember thinking to myself, "that seems kinda small" but kept my mouth shut. I'd always been a 308 fan, but just couldn't see its place on elk. Then in the early 2000's I started packing one, and eventually found it worked just fine. And, of course, ditto all the other "lesser" rounds like the 270 and 7-08!

I think a lot of guys are still influenced by those 1980's writers, many of whom had thin resumes with elk. I also think in all American males there's an element of machismo that requires a "big/bad" remedy. Add peer pressure, group think, ego/insecurity and viola, the Remington Ultra Mag!

As someone once said, "experience can be very long but very narrow."

I'd also add, there's a definite "confirmation bias" of many magnum shooters that guides them to only seek out those sources that confirm their pre-existing biases, while ignoring all others in contradiction. I had those same biases, I was just flexible enough to learn
something new. There's often a better way.

I'm glad I did listen...


I was one of those. I didn’t start elk hunting until in my thirties and the first jaunt was with a 300 Win mag with which I didn’t get a shot. However, full blown loonyism was upon me as I rebarreld to 338 Win and then upon a Guns and Ammo article by Ross siefried, rechambered to 340 Wby. While I would have denied the necessity of these bigger cartridges for elk, I grew to love the 340 and the rifle it was in. I believe I took some where around ten bulls (I took others with some other cartridges including the 45 Colt) with it at various angles and ranges to just under five hundred yards. I never needed a second shot on those I hit and missed one. Man, it was a hammer.

It is truly a great cartridge for large, soft-skinned game but requires some work to manage well and became a bit heavier as I grew older.

I have a friend who I invited on the elk hunt we went on two years ago. Not a big game hunter, some years previous he’d asked what CF rifle/cartridge to get to cover his needs from deer to elk. I suggested the 270 and took him out shooting over the summer before our elk hunt. As it turned out I didn’t get a shot but he slam-dunked a big six-by-six at 200 yards with Federal 150-gr Nos Part’s. I chrono’d those out of his Tikka at 2850 fps. Worked great. During the hunt and before he shot his bull I encouraged him concerning his armament and his ability with it as the outfitter had earlier told him the 270 was too small. It’s not.

Lord-willing, we go again next October; he with his 270 and the same load, and me with a custom, lightweight 284, a kind of a short, fat 270/280. I expect we’ll do ok.

Last edited by George_De_Vries_3rd; 12/22/17.
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Originally Posted by bigwhoop
Quite a few gun writers and the industry fanned the flames of the necessity for a "big gun" for elk back in the 70's. This really never subsided unless you harvest a number of elk and see the earlier claims were over blown. It's natural that people like to defend their personal choice.
It still comes down to using whatever you have confidence in.

Ok, start fighting again...................



Used to drive me nuts when Jim Carmicheal would advocate a 338WM as "minimum" for elk..........


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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