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Old Testament Abraham, the" father" of three religions.

Would some good folks a lot better schooled care to discuss Abraham?

I love tax cuts.

The greatest tax cut EVER comes from the story of Abraham, where the blood tax from God is reduces from your first born to a lowly sheep.

Sorry Donald. Your tax cut is great, but not the greatest ever.

Are you saying you have something to share or that you want information.

Tell me about Sarah's years in the harem.

?

Probably didn't get as much P:::y grabbing as she wanted...


Maintain some perspective, eh?

What I've read of it, a real interesting story.

What's the difference between opium and Abraham?

Opium is the juice of the poppy.

Abraham is the poppy of the Jews!

I have heard people refer to Abraham as the father of three religions for ever.He was the father of two bloodlines.One with Sarah his wife that would become the twelve Hebrew tribes.From these will come Judaism and Christianity.Abrahams other bloodline was through Hagar a slave to Sarah.Through this bloodline would come the twelve tribes of Arabia.Islam will come a couple thousand years later.This is why it is hard to call him the father of three religions.

Abraham is the father of those with true faith, which is saving faith. He fathered no religions. Islam claims him after the fact, with doctored up "doctrines". Judaism obviously descends from Abraham. As King David's royal successor, being of his lineage, Yeshua haMeshiach (Jesus the Christ) is the foundation of what we call Christianity today. The Alpha and Omega title given in Revelation intends to communicate that the faith exemplified by Abraham was His (God's) and only his idea.

Islam claims that everyone starts out as a Muslim and cannot, if apostasized thereafter convert to Islam, only revert. (Hence Abraham and ishmael, not Isaac are hereditary to people of true faith.) The difference between Judeo-Christian faith and Islam cannot be overstated.

I agree.

Islam is a perversion of Judism and Christianity to suit the savage male Arab.

More of an attempt to hijack Judaism.Arabs want to be the only bloodline to Abraham.They want to kill all Jews.Muslims don't understand faith.

I have always puzzled over Abraham and Abram.

I might question your last line/word.. What is "faith"?

Surely they understand obsessive fanaticisms, however. Pretty sure they are not or have not been alone in that. Some people(s) grow up, however.

"Resistance is futile".....

Many say that all 3 have the same God. Totally untrue. Allah and God are vastly different. Allah is the devil in disguise.

Creepy true when you start studying certain passages from the koran and the bible.

How so? God changed his name to better reflect the image his faith was building of himself. It's the same reason God took him out to look at the stars and and the grains of sand and dream of all his descendants.

This is probably more than most of ya'll can see,but did you know that God used Abraham and His covenant with Abraham to bring Jesus into the earth and to have the right to sacrifice him? I'm sure that one will leave most saying, WHAT!

Abram was the father of the moslems after Sarah did not believe the Lord would fulfill His promise and give them a child. She had too little faith and too little patience so she set Abram up with their maid and made her preggo.

Later, God made Abram a new man (as He later did Paul) and changed him to Abraham who became father of the Israelites and Christians.

Lieberals, Muzzies and those unknowing proclaim him father of the Moslems also to also say Christians and muzzies have the same god. Dont listen to lieberals, muzzys or the unknowing or you will be led astray.

Sorry to say most Bible scholars dont see it that way, though thats how it is. Most make excusese saying Hagar and Ishmael had been kicked out, blah, blah, blah.

When Abraham was renamed he was a new man, i percieve it as he was reborn and was never Abram again.

Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son


Anyway, this is how one bible scholar explained it to me.

This ^^^. The Son (God on Earth-Christ) would come through the lineage of David as God said. Ishmael, born long before David, would have the lineage of misery. Issacs lineage would become the 12 tribes of Israel of which one was the tribe of Judah which would become the Jewish people.

Genisis 22
Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”

“Here I am,” he replied.

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”.....

Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.

Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” ( Note: YOUR ONLY SON).

An angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring[b] all nations on earth will be blessed,[c] because you have obeyed me.”

Note. Gods christian nations did become a blessing to the earth. Not so the moslems. No, medicine, no cars trains planes plastic, medical advances, ........

Well, its in effect what the Bible says.

Note in the below, how Ishmael and Hagar aee referred to as Abrams...

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/963-ishmael-his-hand-against-every-man

The lineage of Jesus. Jesus was God on Earth. There is no Ishmael in this lineage.

This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

When he encountered the call of God that came from the burning bush, Moses asked God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” (Exodus 3:13). God answered Moses, “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). God told Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations” (Exodus 3:15).

(Note: there is no Ishmael in the God-Jesus lineage).


Muslims claim that Allah has no son. This represents a head-on collision between the God of the Bible and Allah. For, as the Bible makes clear, the one and only true God is most perfectly revealed as the Father of the Son, Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of John, Jesus repeatedly teaches that no one has truly known the Father, except by the Son. In one of the most clarifying verses in the New Testament, Jesus declared Himself to be “the way, and the truth, and the life,” adding, “No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

The above is from Billy Graham in Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

Yes. The account of God entering into covenant with Abraham is the most fascinating thing and a huge key to understanding the Bible. The significance of a blood covenant is lost on modern people because we don't have them anymore. We have paper contracts which when broken we take to court and attempt to take the offending party's money. In ancient times, the breaking of a blood covenant was a death penalty. This is why God had every right to wipe Israel out on many occasions when they violated it and his mercy in the OT is underrated.

In a nutshell, think of a blood covenant as portrayed by old westerns where an Indian and a white guy would cut each other's palms, bring them together and become "blood brothers". Its a gross oversimplification but at least a place to start.

The account of God's covenant with Abraham is in Genesis 15. God had made promises to Abraham concerning his descendants and land. While we know Abraham "believed God" he asked him "how can I know" that I will inherit all these things. God's response was "bring me a heifer, a goat, a ram and two pigeons". Abraham brought these animals, killed them, and split them in half down the back. God didn't tell him to do that but it must have just been the way things were done in those days. God's response to Abraham was the ancient version of "lets have papers drawn up".

God passed between the pieces of animals as said in Genesis and "swore by himself" his promises to Abraham binding himself to Abraham in a blood covenant. Essentially saying if he broke it, let what happened to the animals happen to him.

Parties in covenant with each other have right to everything the other party has. God asked Abraham for his son and Abraham obliged. As you say, this gave God the right, or perhaps the obligation to offer his.

The only other reference to cutting animals in half in the bible to my knowledge is Jeremiah 34:18. The concept of covenant winds its way through the entire Bible.

Very deep subject. Bigly deep.

Boy was I confused

Here I thought Hagar was a rifle cartridge, and grandson of Hadar, grandson of Galil

RJY66 tells it right. Ray Vanderlaan clarifies the covenant cutting thus. Since Abraham swooned/fell into a deep sleep, God alone passed between the split-in-two animals (represented by the smoking fire pot.) What that means, in contrast to the usual agreement that if either one violates the covenant (agreement) what happened to the animals would have to happen to the violator, God would pay the price either way. This is specifically why Jesus was/is our sacrifice for sin. God paid the price for Abraham's and thus his faith descendents' violation of covenant, violated by our sin. He is our peace, if we accept and identify with Jesus -- saving faith.

I appreciate the explanations - I must have dozed off when that was covered.

It's incredibly awesome when a person begins to understand the plan of salvation,and that the plan was in effect even before the world was made,since Jesus is also called the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. To understand the plan of salvation is to understand how truly blind it is to see God as one who angrily punishes those who refuse to worship him.

That very different from the t genealogy in Luke. Heck the two genealogies can't even agree upon the grandfather of Jesus.

God
Adam
Seth
Enos
Cainan
Maleleel
Jared
Enoch
Mathusala
Lamech
Noah
Shem
Arphaxad
Cainan
Sala
Heber
Phalec
Ragau
Saruch
Nachor
Thara
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Juda
Phares
Esrom
Aram
Aminadab
Naasson
Salmon
Boaz
Obed
Jesse
David
Nathan
Mattatha
Menan
Melea
Eliakim
Jonam
Joseph
Judah
Simeon
Levi
Matthat
Jorim
Eliezer
Jose
Er
Elmodam
Cosam
Addi
Melchi
Neri
Salathiel
Zorobabel
Rhesa
Joannan
Juda
Joseph
Semei
Mattathias
Maath
Nagge
Esli
Naum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melchi
Levi
Matthat
Heli
Joseph
Jesus

Who was Grandpa, Heli, or Jacob?

Since Joseph was not the father, you need to trace Mary's lineage. miles

from an oratory, a rabbi of my acquaintance explained the story of the three religions as Judaism as being the root, and Chritianity and Islam as the two shoots that grew out of the root. that is the bud of Christianity sprouted first from the root, then later another shoot sprouted and grew, and that would be Islam. there was no pronouncement if there would be later shoots from the root to appear. we'll just have to be patient and wait and see.

A good read and quite accurate I would say.

According to both Matthew and Luke, Joseph was the father, and it's his linage that is traced.

Of course if Joseph was not the father, then is shoots down the whole narrative of Jesus as the descendant of David.


From Matthew:

15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

From Luke:

3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

The Jews were very strict on inheritance and it was important to have sons. It's believed that Mary had no brothers. Her father, Heli, legally adopted her husband, Joseph, so that Mary could inherit. The geneology goes from Joseph to his adopted father, Heli, and on back from there.
That gives Jesus' lineage in 2 ways. It was biological from Mary's side, and the legal lineage on Joseph's side. Both ways got back to David to fulfill the prophecy that the messiah would descend from David.

So they did not believe in that virgin story. miles

Many, of the early Christian sects did not.

Some believed the Holy Spirit entered Jesus after he was born.
Some believed he was never born and just began to exist in this world.
The nature of, or the lack of, the divinity of Jesus was a hotly contested issues between the early sects.

Read Matt. 1:22-23.

The prophecy given in Is.7:14 referred not to a virgin but to a young woman, living at the time of the prophecy. And Jesus, of course, was called Jesus -- and is not called Emmanuel in any other verse in the New Testament.

Only the RSV calls it a young woman. All the rest say virgin.
Is 7:14 is quoted in Mat 1:23 and in all versions it says virgin.

First your assertion about how many translations use the term "young woman" is factually wrong. BBE, CEB, CJB, GNT, GNTA, NSR, NSRA, RSV, and RSVA, all use the term "Young Woman"

The word in Hebrew is הָ עַ לְ מָ ה (elome) which google translates as "damsel", a young unmarried woman.
בתולה is virgin, which is not used in the original Hebrew.

In addition, Jesus still wan't named Emanuel.

5

Im sorry to say, most likely, that was not covered, and most likely, not discerened by most taught "theologians".

No, you can read the scriptures rather than testing the wind, which remains suspect, depending on who passed gas.

In Is7:14 using Blue letter Bible, the original word is G5959 almah. In Matt1:23 the word is G3933 parthenos. One of 353 prophesies fulfilled by Jesus. Jesus="Jehovah is salvation" A) Jesus, the Son of God, the Saviour of mankind, God incarnate.