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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2001
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IMG_2156 by Jim Hackiewicz, on Flickr Here is a few photo examples of the 445 super mag case used for my 44 mag shot shells. With 9 to 11 grains of unique and a circular piece of fabric, like terry cloth felt, or almost anything that can be tapped down snugly on the top of the powder charge to hold it in place against the primer. Then pour in the 7.5 or 9 shot or what ever you choose I have used 4 shot as well. 9 works really great for me. One case firing will blow it out to match the cylinder and usually get you a better capacity the second load. The far right is an unloaded 44 mag case going to the left, that one is filled with powder, "wad" and shot then covered over with whatever silicone calk I had laying around. Clear works nice to verify what shot is loaded months later! I usually ream a case mouth inside and out to a sharp edge. Than fold up fabric and tap the shell through like a cutter. With a straight piece of metal like a nail or paper clip you can push it all out from the primer hole. I found drilling out primer pocket of the sacrificial wad cutting tool it was easier to just use a small screw driver. I suppose you would need to experiment with shot size and powder charge for the best patterns at your chosen range with your gun. Mine with 9 shot really performs fantastic at 20 feet from my 5-5/8" freedom arms revolver. As you can see the 445 supermag cases provide tremendous capacity. If I recall Properly I have as much lead shot in them as a 410 shell holds inside the wad of a new shell. Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. I have also poured melted wax into the case before sealing them up to hold the shot together longer. Not enough experience with that yet to share. But at 6-8 feet it's still a bullet hole in the paper. Less wax would seem better, but maybe no wax and having it work as it did originally is the best yet. There is zero recoil from this load and all 5 cylinders can be fired easily in seconds without losing the sight picture. It takes time to set up the loading bench to make these but it's worth every minute to have them available in your cylinder. My revolver has externally numbered cylinders actually both my freedom Arms and my Mountain gun both have numbered cylinders. In this way I know which cylinder has which ammo.
www.huntingadventures.netAre you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Have done this with fire-formed .30-40 Kraig cases with the rims turned down to .050". Approximately 230 gn of #9 shot and 7 to 8 gn of Bullseye worked well. Like the silicone caulk idea. I have used epoxy or crimped in a .41 cal gas check. Couldn't get the cases completely fire-formed without using a full load. They work well but lead the barrel fiercely.
One unerring mark of the love of the truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. John Locke, 1690
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
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Might try cork instead of the cloth. 1/16" thick . I used 1/8" for a 45-50 load.
Years ago there were some write ups on the various methods. As IRC, the smaller the shot the better and don't hot rod the laods.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,843
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I’ve done similar with my 460 S&W, using .444 Remington Mag. brass, 1/2 oz. of shot, duplicating a 2 1/2” 410. memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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Yeah, normal range powder charge is better. Loading hot just distorted the patterns badly for me.
www.huntingadventures.netAre you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. .
None will walk away if you use a 255gr Keith.....
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Will a shortened 444 case fit in the chamber of a 44 mag?
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 16,000 |
it's easy enough to cut a wad using a casing with the mouth sharpened out of just about anything. I don't use max loads either. I did go online and buy a bag of no 12 shot cause i wanted a denser pattern. I use and electric glue gun over the end to hold the shot in place. In 45colt i used a .410shotcup with the wings cut back. done the same thing with several other calibers.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Campfire Tracker
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Will a shortened 444 case fit in the chamber of a 44 mag? I don't think so; they fit 45 Colt / 454 Casull / 460 S&W chambers correctly. The 444 Marlin has a slight taper in original form, it's based on a rimmed 30-06 case with no bottleneck. I use 444 Marlin brass in my 460 in a similar manner to the OP, but with old RCBS 45 Auto shotshell dies to crimp the over-shot wad in place. I make those wads much like the OP as well, but from card stock from primer boxes. I've found patterns are better when using a shortened 410 shot cup instead of an over-powder wad, at least in my guns. I've posted these pics before but they seem appropriate here. The cases are "over-annealed" to fight case neck cracking because of the large degree of forming by the shotshell dies. The target was shot at 10 yards from a 6" 460 revolver, with an outline of my hand for reference.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Will a shortened 444 case fit in the chamber of a 44 mag? Sadly, no, the .444 is .4698 at base, .44 is .4569. As stated above you can use .303 British or .30-40 but you have to reduce the rim. .445 Super Mag is easiest, I ran them into a 7x57 die to reduce the upper part of the case enough to chamber. I think it would work better if I had a .41 Magnum sizer, but after firing they fire form to look exactly like JJHack's in the OP. I loaded mine with a .410 shot cup trimmed to length and silicone caulk to seal. Oh, yeah, .445 works in both .44 Mag and .44 Special if you size down the "neck" far enough.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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These type shot shells work as good as anything including the 410 revolvers without the oversized cylinder chambers for the 45.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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That's a great pattern for 10 yards....
I made up some .41 Magnum shotshells a few years ago and they worked well. One had an inverted gascheck on top the other a .410 round ball.
I've got some .414 Supermag brass and now that I have a 10mm die need to see if the necks can be reduced to fit in the chambers...
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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.....
.445 Super Mag is easiest, I ran them into a 7x57 die to reduce the upper part of the case enough to chamber. I think it would work better if I had a .41 Magnum sizer,....
Couldn't you just run them through a 44 die? just happened to dawn on me, is length the problem with running them in a 44 die?
Last edited by dave284; 12/17/17.
Those who are always shooting off at the mouth usually aren't shooting straight. Build a man a fire and he’ll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life. www.wvcdl.org
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Campfire Tracker
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Yes, the .445 is much longer than the .44 mag case, it extends into the throat of the cylinder so it has to be sized down to fit. .44 mag sizer is around .457, the throat part has to be around .430.
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
SotG
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 24,634 |
IMG_2156 by Jim Hackiewicz, on Flickr Here is a few photo examples of the 445 super mag case used for my 44 mag shot shells. With 9 to 11 grains of unique and a circular piece of fabric, like terry cloth felt, or almost anything that can be tapped down snugly on the top of the powder charge to hold it in place against the primer. Then pour in the 7.5 or 9 shot or what ever you choose I have used 4 shot as well. 9 works really great for me. One case firing will blow it out to match the cylinder and usually get you a better capacity the second load. The far right is an unloaded 44 mag case going to the left, that one is filled with powder, "wad" and shot then covered over with whatever silicone calk I had laying around. Clear works nice to verify what shot is loaded months later! I usually ream a case mouth inside and out to a sharp edge. Than fold up fabric and tap the shell through like a cutter. With a straight piece of metal like a nail or paper clip you can push it all out from the primer hole. I found drilling out primer pocket of the sacrificial wad cutting tool it was easier to just use a small screw driver. I suppose you would need to experiment with shot size and powder charge for the best patterns at your chosen range with your gun. Mine with 9 shot really performs fantastic at 20 feet from my 5-5/8" freedom arms revolver. As you can see the 445 supermag cases provide tremendous capacity. If I recall Properly I have as much lead shot in them as a 410 shell holds inside the wad of a new shell. Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. I have also poured melted wax into the case before sealing them up to hold the shot together longer. Not enough experience with that yet to share. But at 6-8 feet it's still a bullet hole in the paper. Less wax would seem better, but maybe no wax and having it work as it did originally is the best yet. There is zero recoil from this load and all 5 cylinders can be fired easily in seconds without losing the sight picture. It takes time to set up the loading bench to make these but it's worth every minute to have them available in your cylinder. My revolver has externally numbered cylinders actually both my freedom Arms and my Mountain gun both have numbered cylinders. In this way I know which cylinder has which ammo. JJ, Get your hands on some #11 shot and you'll never go back to the 7.5 or 8 I promise. Shot penetration is never the issue, number of pellets on target is paramount. With 7.5 shot most snakes require two shots, with #11, even out of a .38 special, it's never more than one shot. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Chilled-Lead-Shot-11-15mm-10_bag/productinfo/02611/
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,029 |
I shot a mouse that kept raiding candy bars inside my wall tent with my . 357 mag shot shells using 9 shot. Did the job,but pieces of mouse wer all over the tent walls. Kinda noisy too
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
IMG_2156 by Jim Hackiewicz, on Flickr Here is a few photo examples of the 445 super mag case used for my 44 mag shot shells. With 9 to 11 grains of unique and a circular piece of fabric, like terry cloth felt, or almost anything that can be tapped down snugly on the top of the powder charge to hold it in place against the primer. Then pour in the 7.5 or 9 shot or what ever you choose I have used 4 shot as well. 9 works really great for me. One case firing will blow it out to match the cylinder and usually get you a better capacity the second load. The far right is an unloaded 44 mag case going to the left, that one is filled with powder, "wad" and shot then covered over with whatever silicone calk I had laying around. Clear works nice to verify what shot is loaded months later! I usually ream a case mouth inside and out to a sharp edge. Than fold up fabric and tap the shell through like a cutter. With a straight piece of metal like a nail or paper clip you can push it all out from the primer hole. I found drilling out primer pocket of the sacrificial wad cutting tool it was easier to just use a small screw driver. I suppose you would need to experiment with shot size and powder charge for the best patterns at your chosen range with your gun. Mine with 9 shot really performs fantastic at 20 feet from my 5-5/8" freedom arms revolver. As you can see the 445 supermag cases provide tremendous capacity. If I recall Properly I have as much lead shot in them as a 410 shell holds inside the wad of a new shell. Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. I have also poured melted wax into the case before sealing them up to hold the shot together longer. Not enough experience with that yet to share. But at 6-8 feet it's still a bullet hole in the paper. Less wax would seem better, but maybe no wax and having it work as it did originally is the best yet. There is zero recoil from this load and all 5 cylinders can be fired easily in seconds without losing the sight picture. It takes time to set up the loading bench to make these but it's worth every minute to have them available in your cylinder. My revolver has externally numbered cylinders actually both my freedom Arms and my Mountain gun both have numbered cylinders. In this way I know which cylinder has which ammo. JJ, Get your hands on some #11 shot and you'll never go back to the 7.5 or 8 I promise. Shot penetration is never the issue, number of pellets on target is paramount. With 7.5 shot most snakes require two shots, with #11, even out of a .38 special, it's never more than one shot. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Chilled-Lead-Shot-11-15mm-10_bag/productinfo/02611/ ballisticproducts is where i got my shot, enought to last me into the next lifetime. I never used special brass, just the brass designated for what ever caliber i was making them from. Wads are easy to make, or in like 45colt the .410shotcup. you can make a cutter for the wad and end c ap out of a casings with the mouth sharpened. And a glue gun to seal them in the casing on the end. In some cases if they will fit an inverted gas check.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. .
None will walk away if you use a 255gr Keith..... Bingo
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Not many will walk away from this load at less than 10 feet with clear vision and all their teeth. .
None will walk away if you use a 255gr Keith..... Exactly
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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