Home Forums Gear Hunting Trucks and Four-Wheel Drives Automotive engineers are complete freaking idiots

I spend the last 2 days changing a thermostat in a Pontiac Montana with the GM 3.4 engine. The engineer who designed this needs a good flogging.
Normally a thermostat will take, what, 30 min to 1 hr? This one took me 2 hrs to get out and 5 hrs to put back in. There's a crossover exhaust pipe that goes over the rear housing bolt. There's no possible way to get a hand on that bolt without pulling off the entire exhaust system.
It was a nightmare putting it back in. 1st, I got a 12" pair of needle nose pliers. I'd carefully hold the bolt over the hole then try to push it in with a long screwdriver. Normally, the bolt will fall out and has to be located blindly off the transmission underneath. If you can get it lined up without being able to see it, you hold it with the screwdriver and use the needle nose to try to turn it 1/20th turn at a time until the threads catch. Usually it will fall out first. When, after a few hundred tries, it does catch, you need a weird wrench to turn it. I took a 6" 13mm wrench, cut the box wrench off the other end, bent a 75 degree bend in the handle, and ground down the sides of the open end wrench to get it between the bolt and the stat housing. I had to heat and bend the open end a number of times before I could get it to work. I got the bolt in about 1/2 way with that. Then you need a 6" straight 13mm to finish it. You hold a light in your mouth while you lie on top of the engine. You reach under the exhaust crossover and fingertip it. It's 1/12th of a turn at a time, turning the wrench over after each turn. If you're strongly left handed, you have a big problem. Luckily I can do some things with either hand.
In the meantime, you wrack your brain to come up with polite synonyms for 'shucks', and 'fooey'.

They tried to be smart by making the rear hole in the stat housing a slot instead of a hold so you could loosen the bolt and leave it in. That would be fine if the stat was flush with the block so you could slide it in but it isn't. It sticks out a 1/2". So, the housing has to be angled in but it can't be angled because of the exhaust pipe.

I probably saved $200 in labor but spent $400 in frustration.

GM is all you really need to say. Remember the 80's V6 you had to pull the motor to change 2 spark plugs?

It aint just GM.

I would hate to work as a mechanic nowadays, seems like nothing is easy to access on a car/truck anymore.

Whenever it's too hard you generally need a special tool.
In this case it appears you needed one of these.

That's similar to the one I made except mine was open end.
The problem could have been completely alleviated by simply making the headers 1" longer. That would move the crossover pipe enough so you could easily get a hand on it and it wouldn't be in the way of anything else.

Or one of these-



GM. Why do people keep falling for it?

It was my mothers. When she hung up the keys in '07, I bought it from her. I've put 115k on it since then. It has 175k on it now and still runs fine.

Some of the auto parts stores will rent or loan you special tools like that, if you ask.

You missed the whole point of my tirade.

No, I didn't miss anything. IMO, every engineer should be required to install and replace every part that they're responsible for from a fully assembled vehicle. That said, I wouldn't be diddling around sawing and bending my own tools while also removing parts that need not be removed when I could buy the specialized tool for $15, or better yet, borrow one simply by buying the part at the auto parts store a couple blocks from home that ADVERTISES tool loan/rental..

LUCKILY MY FIL WORKED IN A BIG FORD GARAGE AND THEN WAS FLEET MANGER FOR THE LOCAL GAS COMPANY. IF SOMETHING WAS WEIRD LIKE THAT,HE ALWAYS KNEW OF A SPECIAL TOOL AND WHERE TO GET IT, AFTER HE PAST, I GOT ALL HIS TOOLS. I STILL HAVE MANY THAT I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE FOR.

LIKE THE TOOL TO PUT THE KEEPER COIL SPRINGS BACK ON BRAKE SHOES. I SPENT 3-4 HOURS TRYING TO CHANGE ONE WHEEL ON MY HORSE TRAILER. I WENT INTO THE LOCAL PARTS TOOL AND THEY SHOWED ME THAT TOOL THAT COMPRESSES THE SPRING, AND THEN TURNS THE PIN INSIDE THE SPRING. I HAD THREE OF THEM IN MY FIL'S TOOLBOX. I HAD ALWAYS USED PIERS.

ANYONE REMEMBER THOSE OLD STARTER WRENCHES THAT WERE FORMED INTO AN ARC SO YOU COULD GET TO THE BOLT NEXT TO THE ENGINE BLOCK

(STILL TYPING ONE FINGER LEFT HANDED WITH RIGHT ARM IN SLING)

I'm not driving 20 miles to Autozone for a loaner when I can cut and bend a $3 Harbor Freight wrench myself in 5 min. I've used their loaners many times when needed.

Back in the 70's, I was a professional tech, working in an import shop, and the Japanese cars were starting to come in for repairs.

I'm sure that if I were 5'5", or so, I would have had an easy time working on those, but, I am 6'1", so there were many times I needed an extra joint between my wrist and my elbow.

I have cussed many an automotive engineer's designs!

I used to build drivelines for anything that moved. Worked in a machine shop. From work experience, I can tell you a French driveshaft has a .065 wall tube, but has three keys for keyway (one is stronger than the tube wall) and requires removal of the rear end to install. (They use no slipyokes.)
I specialised in semi-trucks and stretch limos, race boats, and PTO'S

Yesterday I had to change the head light switch and plug wiring on my 95 1500 dodge. The kit had directions that would work great if I had the complete wiring harness exposed by removing the dash. Of course the directions said that was not required. Factory wire size was way undersized on half the terminals and they over heat and melt the plug plastic. Nice little tags all over the place. Made in Mexico.

The wires to all the rear lights on my '08 Dodge Ram are very small. They look like 20ga. Those are supposed to operate trailer lights, too. I can see problems if you're towing a large trailer with lots of clearance lights. I put LED's on my trailers just in case.

If you will remember the standard official method was to drop the transmission mount and engine mounts to get to those plugs til mechanics with more intelligence (GOOD SENSE) than the design engineers started to drill holes in the fender well and use long extensions to get to those pesky plugs simple clamp on repair to the fender well hole.

It makes sense that your father worked in a Ford shop and has a bunch of oddball tools . . .
During a conversation Ford mechanic friend once told us that he thought ford design and snap-on were in collusion because it seemed that every year they had at least one model that required a special tool and one company always hd them.

One of my past Nissans had a double angle on the oil filter. Once ya got used to it it was no big deal . . . BUT until then it was a bit frustrating especially since they had moved it fron the open side of the block (base could still be seen in the casting) to up under the AC compressor

Back in the 70's when Ford was selling Mazda pickups, I looked at one...briefly. They had the oil filter under the engine and on top of the axle. It was a nightmare to get at. No thanks. There was no need to buy trouble. I ended up with a Datsun.

well i saw the problem right off after reading the o.p.

you assumed. you assumed that vehicles or anything like that were engineered and built with service in mind.
they're not. it's engineered and built with ease of assembly on the assembly line in mind. every vehicle or motorcycle
or off road conveyance or tractor or outboard motor or yard maintenance device etc. i've ever had and messed with
is built that way. for ease of assembly on an assembly line. the other stuff, cut-outs in the chassis for access, etc. are
an afterthought.

gone for me are the days of working on cars. i don't even change oil anymore. i keep toying with the idea of buying an old ford f100 or somesuch to use as my daily driver when i retire so i can work on it when i feel the urge. for me auto mechanics are a love/hate relationship. i used to love being able to go out there and change a water pump, u-joint, brakes, exhaust, whatever. round about mid-80's i began to hate that schit because cars were no longer made to work on for the average (or below) guy with an average (or below) tool box. i fought it until about 10 years ago and finally gave up when i was fugging up more schit than i fixed and had the money to pay someone else.