Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Jack O'Connor's Pet Loads

I grew up reading Outdoor Life, and therefore O'Connor. I suppose that's what made me a fan of his more than anything, that in addition to reading about every book of his. Keith always did too much bragging and bellyaching for me. There's nothing wrong with giving your opinion, as I do that every day, but opinions are just that.......and not the be all, end all of a particular subject. I don't recall JOC ever really running a particular cartridge down, but EK did it on a regular basis.

With all that being said, it is somewhat of a shame that the time period that both of those men lived in, and the other writers of that time period, is gone and never to return. If you wanted to read about the latest fad, you had to buy a magazine, and you waited faithfully each month for your favorite one to be delivered. Today, you just log on to a forum, and you get the latest news. I doubt we ever see anything like that again.

The only cartridge that I recall JOC running down was the 244 Remington. He thought that Winchester got the 243 right and Remington got the 244 wrong. Wrong rifle, the 722, and wrong ROT, 1-12". Time has, yet again, proven him to be correct.

"It is rumored that the Col helped his Dad with some of his later articles and work. It's also rumored that JOC found out, blew the whistle, ended up with the Major's job. The Col, not the forgiving type to begin with, never forgave JOC. There was ongoing bad blood for his remaining years."

Well, apparently it's true as Askins did admit to as much about covering for his dad in his book "Unrepentant Sinner". He did say something about O'Connor taking his father's job but IIRC didn't go into great detail other than it happened.
Paul B.

JOC was on the money, right again about Rem and the .244.

Altough if they'd had the 6CM with 8 twist in the 722, that would have worked...

DF

What's right is right. I don't think O'Connor had patience for dishonesty...typical JOC-from a chapter on Medicine for Elk and Moose goes "If an elk hunter is filled with euphoria by going after the big deer with a .458 I am all for him. If he wants to make a reasonably honest dollar by knocking off an inspirational essay on elk rifles, I can understand his problem as i have felt the cruel pinch of want myself. I draw the line only if he expects me to take the stuff seriously"....from his book- "The Art of HUNTING BIG GAME in North America"

With all due respect, to me, Elmer was what we call on sports teams an "I" PERSON...Too much I this and I that, if you know what I mean.

It's very interesting to read that info about the 7mm STW. That caliber was responsible for a severe injury I saw in my ER about 1997, might have been 1998, and it changed the way I reload metallic cartridges.

The fellow I treated had a Remington 700 chambered in this caliber. He was using load data from magazine articles (internet reloading info was nonexistent, or at least very difficult to find in those pre-Google days), and was doing load development at his home rifle range. His rifle blew up on the bench, and according to him it was the third load in a string of 3 shots with that powder charge, which he stated was the max charge listed. He was adamant that the previous 2 bullets had exited the barrel, as he was marking the POI of each shot in his load notes with his spotting scope. The rifle blew open just forward of the chamber and all the way to 3-4" from the muzzle. My patient told me there had been ZERO "pressure signs"... no flattened primers, no case bulge, no difficulty lifting the bolt.

The fellow told me he had been using the published data from Shooting Times magazine, so I presume this may have been the original Layne Simpson data, which as you point out was quite a bit hotter than the manuals later came out with. Anyway, it blew up his left hand pretty badly. His thumb was ok but all four fingers were blown open and fractured. Tendon damage was severe. I numbed him up, cleaned him up, and sent him on to a hand surgeon. He wrote me a thank you note a few months later and told me he'd got back pretty much full use of the hand, but it still hurt all the time.

I had used "pressure signs" in load workup up to that point, but after that 7mm STW injury case, I resolved to stick to data published in manuals, and to strongly distrust the so-called warning signs. Haven't blown up a rifle yet, following that rule.

In 1940, Jack O'Connor probably did not have the juice to get anyone fired from their job. He was a relative unknown.

Askins Jr. did get canned from OL in the late 1940's for freeloading on his expense account. O'Connor discusses this in "The Last Book", although he doesn't refer to Charlie by name.

Like Elmer Keith, Charlie Askins was a bitter, jealous individual when it came to J.O'C. Both felt that OL should have hired one of them instead of "that English Professor".

O'Connor liked Elmer, and thought that Askins Sr. was an excellent shotgun writer. He didn't have much use for Askins Jr. Referred to him as "psychotic", and was probably correct.

The J O'C - EK "feuds" sold magazines. While perhaps not the whole story, it's a big part of it.

JOC was also a fan of the 7x57 for elk - particularly of a load producing about 2650 fps with a 160gr bullet - saying it was an overlooked gem for those looking for a soft kicking, very effective elk killer.

Pretty much reflects today's success with the 7mm-08 in 140gr and 160gr bullets - another "got it right" for JOC!

I enjoyed JOC for his acerbic wit and ability to string five words together and make a complete sentence. The cartridges and rifles he wrote about have stood the test of time, and his stories regarding their use reflect the thoughts of a reasonable man. Elmer, on the other hand, always left me with a sense of having just read the work of a bombastic hick. A knowledgeable hick, but bombastic nonetheless.

I remember that one, he was most upset that the article, which featured "best elk calibers" did not list the 30-06, which O'Connor believed to be one its best suites.

We should do a poll, If JOC were hunting today, how many synthetic stock rifles would he own?

3-5
1-3
Zero, he had Beisen's

He did seem to appreciate a stable stock but really had a penchant for the simple lines of good (not fancy) wood.

Given today's skiddishness about pressure & with the testing equipment available today, I'd be very surprised if O'Connor's loads, like some of Hagel's & Keith's, wouldn't be considered "over-pressure".

MM

It seems (in the clutter that is my brain) that I recall reading somewhere that someone took a look at JOC's powder scale and found that it was reading low by a grain.

And a small boy said, "But, the emperor ..... "

HERESEY ! I say, HERESEY! I say.


From personal experience I use & used 3 of JOCs loads w/o any problems at all.
A. 62 gs Surplus 4831 with 130 HSP = 3100 fps. 270 Win obviously

B. 49 gs IMR 4064 with 130 HSP = 2900 @ fps 270 Win

C. 52 1/2 gs IMR 4064 with 150 HSP or SSP = 2900 @ fps 30-06


I had my own Oehler 33 before I found Hagel's book, "Game Loads & Practical Ballistics........."

I also used 'many' of Bob Hagel's loads in diff cartridges. By many I mean loads for 243 Win, 270 Win, 7 mm RM, 308 Win, 30-06, 300 W M, ETC. I can honestly say, NONE of his loads **that I used** produced expanded primer pockets, blown primers OR excessive short case life.

I AM aware that he was KNOWN for excessive pressure use & destroying some rifles. I can't explain why NONE of his loads caused me any trouble. MAYBE, he had toned things down a bit before publishing that book ? ? ?


ALSO, I wish we had individual pressure testing equipment that was LESS technical & less complicated to use. I have a Pressure Trace system but it is old enuff that it is NOT compatible with TWO computers I have tried.

Jerry

With respect to the comments about 54 gr. of I4350 being hot with a 220 grain bullet I have used this load in two different 30/06s with absolutely no problem. In one of his early articles J.O.C. wrote that users would be surprised at the accuracy of 51 gr. of I4350 with the 220 grain bullet. A few years ago I tried it and found him to be right. It shot like a target load. Being a curious type I went up one grain at a time to 54 grains and still found good accuracy (although not as good as the 51 grain load). Originally it was used in a Remington 700 and then later in my Sako Model 85. The bullet used in case anyone is interested was the Hornady 220. Yet another instance of Jack being right on the money with his comments.

Jim

In 1940, the biggest difference between O'Connor, Askins the Younger, and Keith was that O'Connor was actually a good writer. He had been a reporter and had taught English and journalism in college back when you actually had to know what you were doing to get a university teaching job.

Keith had experience and was a great storyteller, but his work was notorious for requiring a LOT of editing. Hell, I Was There didn't get the same amount of editing as Sixguns or his other works, and it shows. Editors and publishers live by deadlines, the less work an article or book galley requires before it can be sent to print, the better.

Askins the Younger had knowledge and experience, but a glance at his work reveals that his writing was lazy to the point of being sloppy. He had also pissed off a lot of people by gaming the rules to win a national pistol title at Camp Perry (back when sportsmanship mattered), and he had earned a reputation for dozens of unjustified killings during his Border Patrol years.

So if it's 1940 and you're the publisher of one of the most popular magazines of your day, and if your candidate pool for a newly opened editor position includes a barely literate cowboy, a reputed serial killer who cheated his way to a win at Camp Perry, and a polished journalism professor, then it's not a hard decision to make.


Okie John

Here's a great old article in which JOC not only discusses the 7x57, but also gives a few of his favorite loads. His wife seems to have been pretty settled on 160-grain bullets at about 2600 fps. There is also a 'fire discussion from years ago that is pretty interesting.

https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/forty-years-little-7mm

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/702276/1

RM

Thanks, for the links.

Charlie did go out of his way to game the pistol competition. He took a .22LR Colt Woodsman, had it chambered for an altered .22 Velodog French centerfire round. He found and bought a stock of the ammo, pulled the bullets, shortened the case, loaded suitable ammo.

They nit picked his gun (of course), found the sighting radius to be too long. Charlie found a welder to reposition and braze the sight for the allowable radius. He won the match,.

Rex Applegate ended up with the gun, had it engraved with the championship data. According to Bill Askins, Charlie's son, the Col. would have never done that, thought such embellishments weren't Kosher. Anyway, here are some photos. Gotta give him credit for innovation...

After that fiasco, match rules were changed to prevent such in the future.

DF









,22LR, .22 WMR, Velodog.