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Originally Posted by tansinator
Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by ChrisF
There's a guy out of Canadian Texas that used to shoot a 7-08 in Highpower Rifle Competition. He even won a thing or two with that caliber (before he moved on to the 6.5-08 and later the 6X and 6XC.



David was smart enough to recognize it and change.


Notice he went to 6.5 mm and 6mm, not to .308................ummmmm..................grin



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When you get right down to it, a hand loaded "anything" beats a factory loaded "something".

While that is still a good rule of thumb, it is now less true than it was due to the intro of the 6.5 Creedmoor.


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Originally Posted by ChrisF
I do get what Mr Lambert is getting at. He's a benchrest guy, and the cartridges in the past to his standard were limited by the quality of the bullets. It was basically 22, 6mm and 30 cal for his game back when. Even in my game, there wasn't a lot of options until the bullet design and quality improved. When Jimmy Knox, Walt Berger and Cauteruccio started putting out slippery Highpower appropriate bullets, we got the AR service rifle, the 7-08, 6.5-08 and the host of 6mms. All this of course was in the realm of handloading.

Today we are in a different place. I'm surprised no one has invoked Brian Litz in this discussion. He wrote a thoughtful article on the whole 30 vs 7mm discussion. Here's a summary;
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/07/30-caliber-vs-7mm-for-long-range-litz-offers-analysis/




^^^^This^^^^^

Back on track, for factory ammo go with 6.5 Creed without question.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
When you get right down to it, a hand loaded "anything" beats a factory loaded "something".


I can't imagine why anyone would consider competing with factory ammo !?!? I guess in a police sniper competition it would be required (and the taxpayers are footing the bill for the ammo). Getting past the economics of it is - handloaded ammo will always shoot better. And NO - it doesn't have to be Lapua brass.


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I started competing at a time when Leg Matches had to be shot with issued ammo which meant LC Match. There are times when I will still shoot factory ammo by choice and keep a case of Black Hills and HSM 77's on hand for that purpose. It shoots right alongside my handloads, so I never feel disadvantaged. The AMU has won shooting Federal Gold Medal, Black Hills and Atlanta Arms factory ammo. I know that BH and AA provide loadings that yield qualities we civilians are unable to achieve with our stuff. Anyone try to knock off Mk262? Marines shoot BH too.

Last edited by ChrisF; 01/22/18.
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It's just a rule of thumb, Chris.
Although I could throw cost at ya. smile


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Originally Posted by ChrisF
I started competing at a time when Leg Matches had to be shot with issued ammo which meant LC Match. There are times when I will still shoot factory ammo by choice and keep a case of Black Hills and HSM 77's on hand for that purpose. It shoots right alongside my handloads, so I never feel disadvantaged. The AMU has won shooting Federal Gold Medal, Black Hills and Atlanta Arms factory ammo. I know that BH and AA provide loadings that yield qualities we civilians are unable to achieve with our stuff. Anyone try to knock off Mk262? Marines shoot BH too.


What qualities are they?

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...150 more fps with sub-X accuracy.

Tyrone, that was to help those that think in absolute terms. Yes, factory costs more, but in the calculus of juggling life's duties and shooting or not shooting a match, it's worth it for me.

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Interesting points,all. I owned a 7-08 a few years back. Just a plain vanilla Remington 700 CDL,wood stocked. It was the most accurate hunting rifle I had ever owned at that point. I loaded 145 Speer BTSP with W760 and CCI250’s. It wore a mid grade Bushnell 3200 I think. Far from fancy or expensive. I adjusted the trigger but that was it. At any rate I could consistently put three shots into one ragged hole at 100 yards. I know that the Creedmoor is the darling of crossover cartridges and I’m one who will sing it’s praises as well. However the 7-08 is a fine cartridge and quite capable of fantastic accuracy. I know that it was designed originally for target and silhouette shooting but can’t believe that it has been completely thrown out of the target shooting circles and abandoned. I’ve shot plenty of 7.62/308’s and quite honestly would take a 7-08 with well loaded 162’s any day of the week for punching paper. Not sure what happened and why there isn’t any factory ammunition for it. I’m thinking that the Creedmoor has taken all the thunder and the 308 is sticking around because of it’s military heritage. All is moot though IMHO as none of the three are going anywhere. All are well established and are proven quite capable at the range and in the field. I’m just going to keep shooting my little Creedmoor until the barrel falls off and tell anyone who will listen how great it is.


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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by tansinator
I know who I wouldn't get info from for now on.


You might want to check out Butch's bona fides before making that statement.

Ed

+1

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by tansinator
I know who I wouldn't get info from for now on.


You might want to check out Butch's bona fides before making that statement.

Ed

+1

DF



Again, could care less!


Eagle Lake, Mississippi is close to heaven.

"Everything Hipsters touch turns to chit........Period..
Whisky.....Beer.....Tobacco.....Boots....Clothing....Gear......you name it..
Good thing the fuggers don't like firearms.." Fieldgrade

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Originally Posted by tansinator
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by tansinator
I know who I wouldn't get info from for now on.


You might want to check out Butch's bona fides before making that statement.

Ed

+1

DF



Again, could care less!




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I have no clue, but is the 7x08 as inherently accurate as the 308? Plenty facotry ammo in 308. How much proven 7x08 match ammo is there out there? I have no clue.

Butch said to get the most out of the 7mm you would have to reload....Guy doesn't

I"d lean to the 6.5 or the 308. In that instance at least.

But there may be top notch berger/scenar/amax type stuff out there for the round.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Originally Posted by tansinator
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by tansinator
I know who I wouldn't get info from for now on.


You might want to check out Butch's bona fides before making that statement.

Ed

+1

DF



Again, could care less!



I think they say a fool is born every minute. This probably proves it.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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No points to be gained here, disrespecting Butch...

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
No points to be gained here, disrespecting Butch...

DF



Guys, he is entitled to his feelings.

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Originally Posted by butchlambert1
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
No points to be gained here, disrespecting Butch...

DF



Guys, he is entitled to his feelings.

Entitled to his feelings, maybe. After all, this is the Fire.

But, not fooling anyone who knows better.

IMO,

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fools abound and he can enjoy that as needed.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Ya,'ll get off his nutsack. We have disagreed on the subject at hand. I have not disrespected him at all, just trying to make a point. I have had this discussion since this thread started with some other local long range shooters and asked them the same question I asked Butch. They all said, "Out past 600 yards I would go with 7-08, inside 600 yards you won't see a difference. Why is it in F-Open, when you can shoot any caliber you want to, there are usually NO 30 calibers? At our match's, a straight .284 usually is 1st or 2nd place. I guess there are some good 7mm bullets. The best long range shooters around here only shoot 30 caliber when a class requires it; Palma, FTR or the like. They all go to 6mm or 7mm when they have a choice.

Last edited by tansinator; 02/06/18.

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Good thing the fuggers don't like firearms.." Fieldgrade

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Bottom line: No one would EVER choose a 308 for long range shooting if they had the choice of nearly any other cartridge.


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