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Originally Posted by SKane
Originally Posted by rickt300
To me a meat deer is a medium sized doe.


Same here.
I hunt in some areas where doe tags aren't available (or are a limited-draw type thing) so it's the only option if you want venison.
But I've never quite understood why folks would shoot a toy buck if they have access to a doe tag.

Doe tags are only available to landowners with 50 acres or more in my DMU. If you didn't qualify as a landowner and hunted state land here, you might understand someone shooting a young buck a little better. Overall statewide hunter success rate on bucks runs around 16%. On state land I'd bet money it's less than 10%. Combine that with the fact that you'll be sharing the woods with many other hunters who'll shoot the first legal buck they see {meaning "mature" bucks are damn few and far between} and you'll likely get used to tag soup more seasons than not if you get too picky.

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Listening to people who hunt Texas leases talk about how they "hunt" deer, is a whole lot like Rosie O'donnell bitching about sexual harassment! Please !!!!!!!!!!!


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Originally Posted by jimy
Listening to people who hunt Texas leases talk about how they "hunt" deer, is a whole lot like Rosie O'donnell bitching about sexual harassment! Please !!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks, that leave me out. I've never hunted in Tx. I probably couldn't afford it.

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Texas is a cool place.. They do things differently than other states, but it is still fun.. Can't wait too go back.. Many might think it unsporting to hunt with dogs or drive deer, it is the way it is done.. I would love to try an old southern dog hunt.. Now in many states it is popular to watch food plots from heated blinds.. Hunting???


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I have nothing against Texas hunting, or what they claim "hunting is", but for Gods sake watching over a corn fed herd going through a photo album of deer to make sure "ole lighting" is old enough to "harvest" , and then telling someone in Michigan to shoot a doe, instead of a six point is like, putting winter tires on a Prius, and having them mount them at a Starbucks!

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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Texas is a cool place.. They do things differently than other states, but it is still fun.. Can't wait too go back.. Many might think it unsporting to hunt with dogs or drive deer, it is the way it is done.. I would love to try an old southern dog hunt.. Now in many states it is popular to watch food plots from heated blinds.. Hunting???


Did you ever read Robert Ruark's book, "The old man and the boy" and his first deer hunt with dogs ? I can damn near see that buck crashing by....


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A lot depends on where you hunt I guess. Earlier one respondent indicated looking over 300-400 deer before selecting a target. I’ve been hunting 35-40 years and probably haven’t seen more than50-60 deer while hunting seasonwas in effect. There have been many seasons where none of my party saw a deer . Fortunately that’s getting better the last 10 years. But match that with the fact that you may only have a few seconds to shoot you tend to shoot the first legal buck.

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Originally Posted by skeen
I agree hunting shows are a joke, for the most part. I watched one the other day and they had about 12 bucks in front of them that many people would consider the trophy of a lifetime, but they were looking for "something bigger." Many shows are filmed in locations, read 'game farms,' which most people will never have access to. It gives a false sense of reality to younger hunters.

And how 'bout hunter nowadays calling everything smaller a "cull buck." A guy at work who I've known for at least 7 years, and in that time I've never known him to kill a buck, shot a 1 antlered buck and told everybody he shot it because it needed to be "culled" from the herd. Yeah, pretty unnecessary to cull bucks from the National forest.

I hunt public land. I try and put myself in a position to kill big bucks and I do pass smaller bucks, sometimes. However, that is a personal choice and I encourage young, or new, hunters to shoot the first legal buck they see.

This year I shot a buck towards the end of season that I wouldn't have shot earlier. I'd actually already passed up several bucks slightly larger to include that one. However, after watching him through my $1700 binoculars, I looked down and realized that I have a $1500 rifle, in a $600 McMillan stock, topped with a $1500 scope, that I'd never killed a deer with. I ranged him at 237 yards, and made a perfect shot. There's a saying in the army, "train as you fight."

I'm a deer hunter. Sometimes I have to remind myself this is a hobby, and I'm just out to have fun.

As Pat McManus' friend inquired when they were outfitting him to hunt deer.... "Just how big are these deer, anyway?" smile





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Originally Posted by rickt300
I like to shoot bigger bucks and generally pass on anything less than a near or better than 20 inch wide 8 point. I do this to get more days in the field. To me a meat deer is a medium sized doe.

come up to Virginia and hunt where there are very few 20" 8pt and your standards will change in a few years.some seasons we're lucky to see over one or 2 nice bucks.

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Originally Posted by 406_SBC
I can see that a lot of hunters don't care about such things, but I'd fall into the category that does care about maturity in the animals I hunt. I hunted MT this past fall and probably glassed 3-400 mule deer bucks before finding a deer that was "mature" enough to interest me. I do a lot of brown bear hunting and have passed a lot of 9' class bears because they were immature bears. When I lived in the L48 killing a buck wasn't a challenge; killing a mature buck was another thing altogether. As for eating, aged venison is a different beast and mature deer can be very flavorful if cared for appropriately and hung in a meat locker, but I realize that most deer aren't aged properly so younger deer are no doubt much more tender to the average hunter.

I should add that hunting shows are slightly less interesting to me than watching Oprah reruns...


I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing you glassed 3-400 mule deer bucks in a single season, let alone had to pass that many before finding the one that was "mature enough". I do agree with you on the watching hunting shows. we don't watch TV at our house aside from movies I guess though either.



Around here we have a lot of nonresident hunters that come to hunt, and we have a lot of deer (mostly Whitetails). now I'm going to speak broadly here and you may be the exception and I realize that. I'm making the following statements off of what I have seen and conversations I've had with nonresident hunters. we have a lot of deer in that 2-3.5 year old range and at first glance they look good. now bring in the nonres hunters who bring their standards from where they are from with them. in MN or MI a 3.5 year old deer is a rare trophy (in many areas) and would probably score around 100"-120" give or take. a nice buck for sure, BUT around here deer like that are not uncommon. they aren't behind every tree, but it's no hard feat to see a couple a day. Most of the folks I know local are pretty selective on what they shoot. it doesn't have to be a monster, but we have a pool we can be selective with. our tags are valid for both does and bucks typically unless it is an antlerless only tag. usually if we don't find a buck we like, we'll shoot a doe or a spike buck for meat. nonresident hunters based on what I have seen and experienced will shoot the biggest deer they can find, sometimes on the last day so they go home with some antlers to make the trip worth it. I've heard the same hunters who as a group do this year after year, on the same ground, and then complain there aren't any "big" bucks around. I believe anyone can shoot what they want, although it is frustrating to see promising deer that I have passed on hoping they get bigger, only to have some out of stater come and pop it because that's big where they come from. I understand it, I grew up in MN where you were lucky to get a buck of any size, so a 3 year old buck was a real big deal back in the 80's and 90's. For all I know it still is, but I hear it's getting better. There are lots of factors to consider when it comes to picking what deer to shoot. I have no problem with the meat hunter, or the trophy hunter. I've been both at times and often will be both in a single season. yes I hunt for meat, but I also like to see if I can get a mature deer if possible. I respect peoples decisions and appreciate the same respect in return. For example: when a meat hunter sees two bucks side by side and one is a spike and the other is a basket rack, which one do you think gets shot first?




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Originally Posted by jimy
I have nothing against Texas hunting, or what they claim "hunting is", but for Gods sake watching over a corn fed herd going through a photo album of deer to make sure "ole lighting" is old enough to "harvest" , and then telling someone in Michigan to shoot a doe, instead of a six point is like, putting winter tires on a Prius, and having them mount them at a Starbucks!


Thanks you made me laugh

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Around here we have a lot of nonresident hunters that come to hunt, and we have a lot of deer (mostly Whitetails). now I'm going to speak broadly here and you may be the exception and I realize that. I'm making the following statements off of what I have seen and conversations I've had with nonresident hunters. we have a lot of deer in that 2-3.5 year old range and at first glance they look good. now bring in the nonres hunters who bring their standards from where they are from with them. in MN or MI a 3.5 year old deer is a rare trophy (in many areas) and would probably score around 100"-120" give or take. a nice buck for sure, BUT around here deer like that are not uncommon. they aren't behind every tree, but it's no hard feat to see a couple a day. Most of the folks I know local are pretty selective on what they shoot. it doesn't have to be a monster, but we have a pool we can be selective with. our tags are valid for both does and bucks typically unless it is an antlerless only tag. usually if we don't find a buck we like, we'll shoot a doe or a spike buck for meat. nonresident hunters based on what I have seen and experienced will shoot the biggest deer they can find, sometimes on the last day so they go home with some antlers to make the trip worth it. I've heard the same hunters who as a group do this year after year, on the same ground, and then complain there aren't any "big" bucks around. I believe anyone can shoot what they want, although it is frustrating to see promising deer that I have passed on hoping they get bigger, only to have some out of stater come and pop it because that's big where they come from. I understand it, I grew up in MN where you were lucky to get a buck of any size, so a 3 year old buck was a real big deal back in the 80's and 90's. For all I know it still is, but I hear it's getting better. There are lots of factors to consider when it comes to picking what deer to shoot. I have no problem with the meat hunter, or the trophy hunter. I've been both at times and often will be both in a single season. yes I hunt for meat, but I also like to see if I can get a mature deer if possible. I respect peoples decisions and appreciate the same respect in return. For example: when a meat hunter sees two bucks side by side and one is a spike and the other is a basket rack, which one do you think gets shot first?


I have to pretty much agree with what you wrote here. As deer have become more available here and I have retired and able to spend more than a weekend or two hunting I find myself a bit more selective, and would much prefer to collect a doethan a small buck. I will admit however that I still get a little thin skinned when I hear a so-called trophy hunter berating someone that shot a smaller deer. I mean for goodness sakes get a life, they are just deer and it makes about as much sense as rabbit hunting and stressing on shooting only rabbits that have ears 3.5 inches or longer. It’s sort of the same thing as someone going fishing and keeping 3 or 4 bass to eat. The tournament fishermen will have a cussing fit.

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