Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Big.bore 94 in.444 marlin with full magazine and wood stock

I.just got a Winchester 444-full stock big bore 94 .It has the cross bolt safety don't.like that .I hope it Will.shoot 300 grain bullets .I.heard these hare way stronger than marlin.444 rifles I want a laminated stock.and larger lever for it too .I can't wait to shoot.It will be fun !

Pics or it didn't happen Sounds cool..........

Can't get pics on my phone and it's on its way to my gal.I want to.try a bunch of 300 grain bullets in it .It holds seven in.the magazine .It only weighs 7 pounds .I am.going to put a limb saver slip on.pad on.it they work awesome on my 405 Winchester 1895 teddy Roosevelt rifle.This might be alot faster shooting.in.the timber than my Ruger 77 338 win mag but it's a 150 yard rifle maybe 200 with lever evolution ammo or bullets reloaded hotter than factory .The Winchester big.bore 94 is higher pressure rated than the marlin 444 'I finally have an Ohio legal deer rifle too .I can't wait to shoot.It will be a blast for sure .

My Win 444 Timber Carbine will not cycle Hornady ammo. Neither the Lever Revolution or the SuperPerformance, both are too long for the loading gate in the Timber Carbine.

Hi gerry35,
If you do switch out the stock, I might be interested in the current one depending on how it looks.
Thanks, Les

My Timber carbine will not let a wide meplat bullet at normal COL make the turn through the loading gate.
Wide meplat bullets like the Lee 310 grain bullet will load and cycle at 2.530".

Hopefully this gun will.use regular ammo all I can do is try it .I am probably reloading.most a the ammo that will be shot in it ! It's coming.with 50 rounds of.loaded ammo so we will see .

Way stronger? Where'd ya hear that?

I have the same rifle, have only shot 265gr Hornady LM in it but it us very accurate with that ammo. I find the recoil to be quite a bit less than expected, although that may just be me. I thought my buddies Marlin with 240's hit me quite a bit harder. I bought mine new and unfired, found it had a feeding issue where a cartridge would be allowed to slip under the lifter when the action was worked, locking it solid. Managed to fix it, need to get some dies for it and shoot it a lot more.

I have the Timber Carbine as well as the Standard model Big Bore .444, and both do great with the 300 grain Speer UniCor as well as the Hornady 300 grain XTP. Just hang on to your retinas, as recoil is stout in a 6 1/2 pound rifle.

RE 7 and H-322 are my favorite powders for it.

For jacketed bullets the 270 grain Speer Gold Dot is hard to beat. Good balance of weight and length.
If you are hunting average size whitetail - say 160lb or so bucks and 120lb or so does don't rule out the bulk Remington 240 grain jsp. 75 yards or so the 240's put deer on the ground quickly with a bit less exit wound than I prefer.

With powder selection it is fun to compare extruded and ball powder. Hodgdon 322 for example putting out a ball of white light with the 300 grain bullets. IMR or Hodgdon 4198 putting out a tongue of red flame 6 inches or so long. Very noticeable in the receiver sight or the Weaver K-2. My K-2 has a 5 minute Lee Dot.
Anyway, take a look at different powders on gloomy days or early and evening light.

I.am.wondering If aa1680 powder will work .I.developed tons of loads in my 357 maximum and 375 Winchester with it .It always shot very accurate and highest speeds .I will try it on lighter bullets and work up .Yes it gives blast too but works I can't wait to use the 300-grain bullets should be pretty good if they shoot good in my rifle .I think.this was a good edition to.my.battery .

Having problems with rounds hanging up???....send it to a Lever gunsmith...solution is just a bit of milling on the ejection port and or a bit of polishing on the barrel extension hood...and have it worked on to handle longer rounds...again...simple to do and money well spent and a bit better performance.

AA 1680 will work...check out several reloading manuals as there are many powders in that burning range and more info is better...you can also use data from 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf for the same bullet weight as ALL of those cases have similar case volumes as the 444...~65-68 gr H2O...or somewhere close.

I shoot bullet weights from 200 to 320, flat nosed, pointy and gummy bears, cast, jacketed, swaged, whatever...in my 444 and use RL 7 as it has produced the highest velos and best accuracy. Hornady's online data has some very good information for free.

My Marlin weighs in at ~9+# with three rounds, one up and two down...I see no reason for any more...in the short tube, scope & mount/sling. If you put the bullet where it belongs you shouldn't need more than 2 anyway...not dissing anyone who feels the need for a 20 rnd mag.

ALL rifles...whether lever, SS or bolt...are rated for the SAAMI 444 pressure specs at minimum plus safety...think about it....bolt guns MIGHT have a higher SAAMI pressure rating...or lower depending on the receiver brand and when the receiver was actually milled...I won't get into THAT ball of worms AT ALL.

I have many large cal rifles from 40 up and my 444 takes down game...within it's intended range...just as effectively as my 458 mag, 50-90 or 50 cal wildcat.

Good hunting with yours.

From Paco Kelly: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm

The Marlin is a fine leveraction so I’m not comparing good verses not good. I’m rating strength to withstand pressure over a sustained life time of active shooting with each design. The Marlin is rated at tops 45,000+psi and the Winchester 94 Big Bore (that’s the fatside action, not the common action 94) is rated at 55,000+psi. And that’s a big difference.

Something about an aluminum bolt, that doesn't inspire confidence.

Desertroakie...you need to re-evaluate your statements as they are patently incorrect...all you need to do is look up the SAAMI specs on that site to see what the specs are for the cartridges available now and in the past for both the Marlin and the Win AND which receiver types were used.

For a direct example the 444 Marlin is SAMMI rated at 51488 Pmax (MAP) on QL AND several other authoritative sources...look it up.

I'm not about to get into a protracted argument nor publish ANY pressure/velo/load data over ANY of this data...I've been at this game WAAY TOO long to publish any data that some newby will use INCORRECTLY and get his cojones in a vice. I also think that statements on the 'net that cause pain or injury should be treated just like any other injurious act...WE ALL SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!!!

The internet is famous for misinformation, disinformation and totally incorrect statements and give me the REDAZZZ continually and all that krap gets continuously repeated over and over. This same "strength of..." issue has been wrung out ad nauseum, ad infinitum on several forums including this one over the past umpteen years.

You can see the effect by the litigiousness of today's world and by comparing reloading manuals of 40-50 years ago with today's FOR THE SAME CARTRIDGES...that will certainly open your eyes.



ALUMINUM BOLT??????? You need to expound a bit on that...WHICH rifle and model????

Good hunting.

I.am.fixing up.that rifle to be awesome .I.got the hammer extension on it ,the sling on it ,higher scope mounts so you don't see the iron sites in the scope hate that ,I took off the 1x3,power weaver scope and put a 3x9 Nikon monarch on it ,I.put a limb saver recoil pad on it .I want a bigger loop lever on.it but that will come later .I.have to get more bullets for it .I.might try hornady lever evolution too see if it's all its cracked up to be .I found loads to 3000-fps which.I will start at 2500 for the 225 grain hornady bullet for fun .I.have a few 300 grain hornady bullets will.see if they work .I chat wait to shoot it will be lots of fun .I.like to shoot water bottles it's a blast .I.can't tell out at 100 yards what it does to deer .I want a 200 yard load for this gun I.often shoot deer that far .I think.I.Will drag out my elk hide sling.to put on it that is 40 years old .Hopefully all goes well and it makes a fine mountain.bear gun too and should be awesome for hogs ,

Do tell.

None of those were my statements as to the strength of the Marlin v. Winchester. They were of Paco Kelly's. I guess I should have placed his statement in quotes to avoid confusion. Paco seems to be an expert, and I trust his statement as to strength advantage of Win over Marlin.

I know I went way above the normal loads in my Winchester big.bore 94 .It has a large amount of free bore in.the chamber .I couldn't get pressure with aa1680 like you.would think.that would happen .I.never saw flattened primers or stretched brass .I.got 2400 fps with 220 grain.hornady flat nose and went above that no pressure .I know that that are super strong for lever guns way stronger than normal model 94 Winchester rifles .I will go.slow loading.up.with.this 444 as always .I.have seen.some super high loads for these guns but the recoil will be the limit here most likely .That's why I am starting.with lighter bullets and see how fast they can go safely .I do want to try the 265 grain.hornady I have been told it's awesome made for the 444.I can't to shoot this gun .Hope I.can get some 250 yard loads out of It we will see !

.

I got the scope changed to a Nikon 3x9 monarch ,hammer extension on.elk hide sling.on.,limb saver pad on,.I am looking.for a Ser of kanes chaps to protect the stock they work awesome and help on recoil .I am getting a powder funnel for my dillian 550 reloader ,bullets 265 ,270 Speer ,300 xtp and maybe 225 grain hornady bullets .I.think this will be an awesome rifle for deer bears and hogs .I can't wait to try hard cast bullets hopefully I can get some different hard cast bullets 250-350 ,grain.bullets .I.want a good 250 yard deer load and a good bear and hog load .I.an glad I.got this gun my 375 Winchester model 94 were fun to shoot but wanted something.better !

I'd be a little careful pushing loads well beyond those of pressure tested data published by a reputable source. Straight walled cases do not exhibit the normal pressure signs you get with bottleneck cases. It's easy to push loads beyond safe levels in a strong action and think that all is good.

I've read some of Paco Kellys "stuff" ...some is good and some isn't. Plus you have NO IDEA what the barrel steel strength is rated at for some of his "stuff", or what the actual pressure of those cartridges is or any of the myriad other minutia required to go messing about with wildcats or pressure limits...all you have to do is take either of those brands apart...see how the barrel is threaded, note the thickness of the threads, or rather the thinness, how the lock up works and think just how close you head is to all that pressure IF it decides to get loose. You might also want to not just what Winchester did with some of their leverguns by reinforcing the receiver to handle the higher pressure rounds.

There is a ton of BULLSH** that just keeps getting repeated on the net by people that don't have a clue and use faulty logic ...like so and so said this....to cover their backsides. I bet you WON'T find many lever gun smiths mucking about with things unless they KNOW WHAT THE HE** AND WHY...something many posters seem to be totally oblivious of.

The engineers for both companies do their best to make a product that is supposedly "idiot proof" and reloading manuals go to great lengths to provide reliable SAFE RELOADING INFORMATION which not all chose to use...THAT'S WHY THE LAWYERS HAVE US BY THE SHORT AND CURLY'S AND we now have all these PI** poor "lawyer guns" and other garbage interfering with the normal course of business.

You might get away with screwing up once in a while, but every time you over pressure a rifle something is stressed...do it often enough and you will find out WHY there are safety limits...if you survive.

Hey it's YOUR SKIN, do with is as you wish. Personally I've been at this game a long time and have see first hand what WILL happen when "stuff" happens, BY SAFE, LOAD TO DESTRUCTION EXPERIMENTS, not by accident. I don't go there or anywhere near there.

Good Hunting

I am not going high with.those heavy bullets way too much recoil .I found some aa1680 loads that are compressed but I work my way up slowly not.just start at the top .My big bore 94 375 Winchesters did awesome with that powder.The 220 grain went the same speed as a 3006 pushed the and bullet no pressure .I.Got the load out of Lee reloading.book .I did cross multiplying.to find out equal power load with heavier bullets worked out to same pressure .I start way down on.the loading data too .The aa1680 works best compressed also best accuracy .I hope this 444 with respond to it just as good .It has higher velocity with less pressure .I start with lighter bullets and work up.loads then try the heavier ones .I.also did the same thing.in my 357 Remington maximum in a Dan wesson.super mag .I wanted a lever gun in.that caliber also you can.convert a model 94 357 mag to a 357 rem maximum.I don't want to blow up.this 444 Winchester too valuable and I.like my.hands too .I.have never shot a 444 that's why I am asking lots of questions before I make mistakes .I might change the scope mounts to Burris signature zee rings for weaver bases that plastic insert sends way less shock to the scope .I.used them on my 338-378 and 416 rem mag never messed up a scope .This 444 is like super sizing a big bore 94 in 375 Winchester .Hopefully it all works out good and this will be an awesome woods rifle !

I.found a bunch.of the Remington 240 grain.factory ammo for cheap so I am trying it first .I.might buy a box of the lever evolution.to see if it works or not .I.have to get my reloading.stuff together and work up.some loads .Dang.I.was going.to.sell that weaver 1x3,scope but I.don't think.I.Will now ! It's clear as heck and fast to shoot with .This is going.to.Be a fun gun to play with for sure !

I.found a bunch.of the Remington 240 grain.factory ammo for cheap so I am trying it first .I.might buy a box of the lever evolution.to see if it works or not .I.have to get my reloading.stuff together and work up.some loads .Dang.I.was going.to.sell that weaver 1x3,scope but I.don't think.I.Will now ! It's clear as heck and fast to shoot with .This is going.to.Be a fun gun to play with for sure !

DGR,
I've been around the loading bench for a long time. I still have all my fingers, thumbs and eyes. You have been given some good advice on loading and pressure in some of the above posts. It is up to you to follow it. Unless you are joking about lack of pressure signs and "no pressure" in some of your posts the best advice I could possible give is to stick with factory loaded ammunition and enjoy your new rifle.
Take care, and be safe!
Rick

I work up.my.loads not start at the top .This rifle is too valuable to mess up in.any way .These big bore Winchester 94 rifles are stronger than Marlins in the same caliber .My.loads for the Winchester 375 in my Winchester would damage a 375 win in a marlin.The aa1680 powder had lower pressure than other powders I tried .I started with the lower weight bullets with less pressure then went step at a time going.up.in weight .The Speer 235 ,grain in.375 was awesome accurate .I will do the same thing with this 444 step at a time .

For those of you that shoot 444s, and if you handload...

I'll just pass on what I found out in mine...

I reduced recoil quite a bit...loading it down..

I use 300 grain XTPs... but what I found is that those big flat nosed bullets
are so lacking ANY aerodynamic traits... that when loaded down to 1750 fps
instead of say 2250 fps to 2400 fps depending on your bullet weight...
that I lose approximately 10 to 15 yds at most of point blank range....

and using XTPs that are pistol bullets... they are designed to open up at lower
speeds anyway...

So pumping it up gives me a point blank range of 175 yds it seems...which is plenty
for the situations one would use it in...

running it in the 1750 fps range, drops the point blank range to say 160 yds instead.
this is just running a 4 power scope with no fancy adjustments for distance.

that is running powder charges of 30 grain or so of SR 4759, or 4198....

another thing I found out, when having a Marlin in 44 Rem Mag for a while...
If you load 44 Rem Mag data in a 444 case, it will pretty much give you 44 Mag velocity...
and much better accuracy than that 44 Mag gave me... so I traded it off for a 260 Rem.

With some of my Boy Scouts, I use to take some of them out and let them shoot the 444...
but so it didn't hurt any of them, I was using 200 gr XTPs, loaded to about 1000 fps...

Recoil was close to nil... yet the boys loved being able to cut saplings out in the woods in half
with a couple of shots...just using 44 Mag reload data, or data out of cast bullet manuals from Lyman..

a 444 can be a lot of fun and doesn't need to be pumped up to max velocity to do so...

kinda do this with the surplus 8 x 57s I have picked up for mega cheap over the years also..

Seafire and others,
The last couple of years I've been working with a 22" barreled Marlin 444 with 20" twist. I've gone even further in reducing loads and the FUN level goes way up. I ordered a 2-cavity mold from Accurate molds, one cavity a 275 grain gas-checked bullet and the other a 285 grain plain based. I've been shooting between 10 and 12 grs Unique and having a blast. Haven't bothered to chronograph the loads yet but probably around 1,000 to maybe 1,200 fps. Accuracy is great! I do plan to work up the gas-checked bullet to around 1,600 fps to hunt with this fall. The 444 can be lots of fun.
Rick

I load the 265 gr. Hornady bullet with 56.0 gr. of H335. This is the maximum load from both Hornady and Hodgdon. I get 2210 fps from my Marlin, which match the velocity of both source. It works well, but I would never try to use it on game at 250 yd. YMMV.

I have several Winchester 94 BigBores including a pristine model in 444 Marlin. The only problem I have with them is that they are so darn pretty. They shoot and function well but I've got plenty of Marlins in 444 to take into the field. I can't imagine modifying the wood on my 94 BBs. I would opt for replacement instead and hold on to the beautiful originals.

As for pressures, darn few of us have transducers to measure pressure. I rely on Quickload calculations when working up new loads, especially on non-standard loads. I can't be certain the calculations on pressure are correct but the corresponding velocity estimates are always spot on.

T.S.

I have owned several 444s in both Marlin and Winchester. I settled on one just like the OPs. I I like the looks/feel of the full length magazine. I set it up with the Hornady LM 265 factory loads ( bought a bunch at one time) fine gold bead up front, adjustable Merit peep on the rear, trigger work, sling studs added. I have a BB 375 set up the same way...and have never been able to make myself take them hunting...just too pretty! ha. It rains/snows alot in our seasons here. Still...I gave both to my SIL to put aside for my grand daughters future use ( shes 8) I would hunt with a Marlin, but I sold them off for the Winchesters...investment really. But that's just me...they should be great hunting rifles!

I've not had a problem with the Hornady 265 ammo, but the leverevolution is too long to cycle, probably the pointed tips.