Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors New York Military Trials misc

That is the direction that all the evidence seems to be pointing to, though I don't have your book right now to check the pictures.

Here are the pics.


David

Yep, I think the evidence really, really points to that one rather than a "standard" 1895 or 1899 musket.

The rifle that won the trials was displayed at the 1897 Sportsmen's Exposition at Madison Square Garden according to a couple different article, and this is a description from one of them. All of the articles state that "the" rifle used to win the trial was there, not "one of the" rifles. Also notice how they mention a difference in caliber between the trial rifle and Savage rifles - that could be simply bad reporting except for the other sources that mention it being the same as the US cartridge.

Some more pics of the N.Y. trials rifle.




Did I ever mention that we took thousands of pics and narrowed them down to 260 something for the book. This is some we didn't use. They were taken at the Savage factory by my niece Charlotte Royal. David

I can't see yer link?

The picture? Here.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z...Mv5NTNbfrjPjvjQoD=s595-w595-h368-no?.JPG

Rory, I can't open either one. Could you email the article to me. wyomingsavage1895gmail.com. Thanks, David

Weren't some of the shooting trials conducting on Governor's Island?

Thanks, Mike.


I don't think so, I think that was the 1892 army trials where Krag-Jorgenson won. Much earlier prototype of the Savage rifle was used there.

One of these.

David

Found a copy of the Board of Examiners Report to Governor Morton. While it doesn't totally resolve the question of what the rifle was chambered in, I think it does resolve the question of how many rifles were submitted.

As to carbine being tested? No. Submitted for inspection and the usage is in regards to a single rifle.


As to multiple rifles being tested? Sure doesn't sound like it. Throughout the report it refers to rifles from manufacturers as single specimens. Notice that Winchester 95 is listed twice, because they submitted two rifles with slight differences.


As to the chambering: about the most definitive thing there is the comment:

Obviously the army was using the Krag-Jorgenson in 30-40 Krag.

Now I'm trying to find a copy of the actual trial results.. only found the "executive summary" that was sent to Governor Morton.

December 7th, 1895 article requesting rifles for the trials.

I think this pretty much puts the rumor that there were 100 Savage muskets submitted to the trials to rest.

definitely only one was requested.

Picture of the Savage trial rifle as printed by the Brooklyn, NY Daily Eagle. This rifle matches the "1899 transition musket" in David's book on page 13, from the lever shape to the finger grooves to the 2 sling swivels on the barrel. Discrepencies are the cleaning rod sticking out on the picture isn't shown on the rifle in David's book, and the forearm in the picture on top of the barrel extends slightly past the first barrel band, whereas in this picture it looks like the wood stops at the first barrel band.

It also appears to me that the rear of the receiver in this pic flares out like the 1899 transition musket - tho the graininess does make that somewhat questionable.

This picture definitely doesn't match the 1893 musket, and it's not a good match to any 1895 musket we've seen.

That squared off lever with the Marlin style bulge on the bottom is pretty convincing... I've only seen it on one Savage rifle. Since Savage already had pictures drawn up of a Savage musket for their catalog, it makes sense this was drawn from the rifle at the trials rather than a pic handed out by Savage. The musket in the 1895 catalog does have finger grooves on the sides, and does have a cleaning rod sticking out beneath the barrel, but it has a Savage lever and not the Marlin style and the catalog pic has no wood on top of the barrel at all, and the catalogued pic has 2 big sling swivels with only one far forward on the barrel and one far back on buttstock.

Newspaper writeup here:

https://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/50431271/?terms=close%2Bof%2Bthe%2Barmory%2Btests

Those could be mistakes by the artist. I will try to find my other pics of the rifle and see if it has a hole for the cleaning rod. David

Here is a closeup of the forearm from the side. I don't see a hole for a ramrod. So the mystery deepens. What is the pre-1899 military rifle? David

Marlin had no rifles at the trial. Drawing a picture of a Marlin style lever on a Savage musket is a pretty big coincidence.

Got a line on good data about the trials, just waiting for it to arrive. Hopefully will be able to answer most questions.

Photobucket no longer allows the photos I posted some time ago to be seen. Since this is a permanent thread I'll post them again. David
photos of factory pre-1899 military musket. Possibly the New York trials rifle.






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