Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters is there a winner between the 6.5-300 and 26 Nosler?

I have been fascinated with the idea of a 6.5-06, 6.5 PRC, or 6.5-280 Ackley but then I run the numbers out to 500 and consider ammo availability and then leave good enuf alone and build another 270W.

I think I have finally built the perfect one...hah...laughing at myself.

I am also fascinated by the idea of a 270 Ackley but when I fooled with multiple standard 280’s v 280 Ackley & RCBS the most difference I got was 35 FPS. Insignificant!

Rick,

ALL of the newer, high-BC .270 bullets up to 150 grains are designed to stabilize in the standard 1-10 twist, and even the 170-grain Berger will at typical Western elevations as long as the weather's not too cold. (This also means it will stabilize in typical warm-weather African hunting, though you're not likely to use it.) I know this not from theory but from actually shooting all of 'em in a 22-inch barreled Model 70 .270.

But I also realize you're going to go ahead with your rifle nut theories anyway. Have fun!

in my P.O. Ackley book, I recall him saying that AI'ing with 270 was a waste of time in his opinion..
along with the 25/06...

of course that was with powders available during his time....

OK, I’m fascinated by the obsession we share with rifles and bullets on this forum. I have a real thing for 6.5 calibers. I currently am on my second 6.5 Creedmoor, have a long range rig set up in 26 Nosler, and am considering another light weight rifle in 26 Nosler or 6.5-300 (for whatever reason, the lightest weight rifle I can find between the two is in 6.5-300, but I would like to stick with 26 Nosler so I don’t have to buy new dies).

I’m also obsessing over a lightweight rig in 300 magnum. I run the numbers and see I can run a 110gr ttsx bullet at 3900 fps, and ultra high BC 230gr bullets at 2800 fps. With the new quick detach scope rings, I can have two guns in one! A heavy hitter and a light weight flat shooting rocket! Somehow my brain says this would satisfy my desire to have the perfect rifle battery, but my own history shows otherwise.

In the meantime, I’m also eyeing a 28 Nosler to compliment my 26 Nosler. Oh the madness!

NO matter what you do RinB, you will probably always want more.

You sound normal to me,

There's something to be said for the accuracy that the shorter barrel yields, especially when looking at overall weight and balance.

For me, under 22", I want a short action. .270-08 Improved anyone ? 21" 9" twist 150's @ ?? MV

I miss our friend BobinNH, He brought great insight to these .270 conversations.

Yes but what about Long Throating ?

Most AI "improvements" are actually more due to Increased Pressure vice the volume increase due to reduced body taper.
Recall that at the same pressure, MV increases at 1/4 the volume increase. Needs a big volume increase to make a significant increase in MV

The regular .270 and 25/'06 are already factory loaded to higher pressure levels.

MD : Good to Know !, I thought the new bullets would be the death knell of the 10" .270

Any insight into a possible 27 Nosler for the die-hardsout there ?

338Rules.
I use an OAL of about 3.5” in my 270’s now that I have “discovered” M700 clone actions. That and new powders are all the “improvement” I need.

Also...I just don’t get the short action thing. And I detest wildcats. Been there, done that from 375-06 Ackley to 404 cases shortened and blown out to 378 Wby shortened to 2.5”.

BobinNH Well he and I became friends in around 1981 and talked almost daily from then on. We tried every conceivable variety of 270 modifications & many different big 7’s. Eventually he got Mashburn fever but I gravitated to a 270. We tried twists as fast as 1-8 in both and oversize groove dimensions and hand-made bonded core bullets and throat configurations and custom reamer specs. Miss him more than I can express. We were getting ready for an African trip when he got sick. Sad.

His son called me just as Bob passed. I was at SCI last year. It was a painful horrible day. Bob never let me know how bad it was.

Wouldn't a 110 grain TTSX pushed by the right powder add the V to the 270-RinB? Holy cow, that could be a flat shooting death ray.

John my friend,
I plan to load the 150 Nosler Long Range Accubond with latest Doppler measured data. I consulted the Berger twist calculator and it suggested a twist faster than 1-10 in order to maximize BC. Who am I to disagree with Berger?
Rick

Dogger,
I have used the 110 TTSX on wildebeest and kudu. Works just like the 130 TTSX. I loaded to about 3300. No reason to have a 25-06.

With the excellent concentricity of modern bullets, there isn't any reason to under-twist a new build.
On the Other hand, I just don't see bullet manufacturers having much success producing & selling bullets that require a tighter twist than something that has become such a widespread standard as the 10" .270

As MD says below, there's calculators, and then there's calculations, but the proof is in the results. In any event it won't hurt to over-stabilize a wee bit.

Upon reflection, your shorter barrel will reduce MV a bit, perhaps enough that some extra twist is of benefit ?

I think you're swimming against the tide of tradition. Innovation never comes easily, but is its' own reward.
I am most interested in hearing of your results.

Cheers

Rick,

The Berger twist calculator, as I have pointed out a few times before on the Campfire, is based on a formula worked out by the late Don Miller, as are most twist formulas these days. I knew Don fairly well, since we both liked to fool with ballistic numbers, and after he derived the basic formula, he came to the conclusion that plastic tips shouldn't be counted in the length of the bullet. Or at least the majority of their length shouldn't, because they weigh so little.

The Berger version of the Miller formula doesn't take this into account, the reason it predicts a number of plastic-tipped bullets won't stabilize in standard twists under certain conditions, even though nobody's ever had a problem with 'em. A good example is the 40-grain V-Max in the .204 Ruger with the standard 1-10 factory twist.

The JBM Ballistic twist formula includes a place to list the length of plastic tips, and works more realistically with such bullets. It indicates a 1-10 twist is plenty for the 150 .270 ABLR, which has been my experience in more than one rifle.

John,
Thanks. It is easy to get 1-10’s and 150’s are plenty heavy.

338Rules
You want to know results. Well a 270 130 TTSX started at 3000+ will consistently penetrate 30-34” of muscle bone and chest cavity tissue on all African plains game. Hit thru the heart lung area most everything will be found within 35 paces. Swift AFrames and Scirocco’s penetrate less but give the same results meaning everything down and out in 35 paces. The LRX works just like a TTSX. The 130 Speer Hot Cores are surprisingly good as well. This is based on the tougher plains game; zebra, wildebeest, oryx, waterbuck, and eland.

I don’t use muzzle brakes...bad manners towards your PH, his dog, and everyone else in the area.

Have used and seen used 280, 7 RM, 30/06, 308, big 30’s, 338, and 375’s. I haven’t observed enough difference to justify heavier rifles and more recoil. Energy tables are not predictors of results. Same with chronographs. Twice I have used 25” barrels and they were awkward. Haven’t seen any difference in field results between 22” and 25”. My latest is 21”...if it fails to work I will let you know.

All this plus the ancient 270 shoots flatter than a Creedmoor out to 440 which is my self imposed limit...maybe 500.

And MOST IMPORTANTLY, you can find ammo to make it go BANG.

that analysis just blew away my flimsy self-justification for a 6.5x284...

Dogger

Nothing wrong with a 6.5-284. It moves 130 at about 3000 give or take. For a BG hunting rifle I am more concerned about the fit, size, and function than the cartridge. For me a perfect general purpose rifle moves a 130-150 at 2950-3100. Flat shooting, manageable recoil, light weight, and reasonable size. Pick a suitable bullet, it does the real work. Bore between .26 & .30. If more is needed then start with a .375.

Mostly the super large cases are there just to sell more stuff to guys who want to spend money trying to find performance. A 280 long throated with high VLD bullets will reach way out for a good shooter. I used one for many years and on then on a trip couldn’t find ammo to make it go bang so went to a 270 and gave up about 3%.