24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
D
Dogger Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
of the rapid strings of fire in competition... or because of the case geometry directing the hot gasses onto the leade??? or something else?

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...

BP-B2

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,067
Campfire Savant
Online Content
Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 150,067
Surely it will last a 1000

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Dogger
of the rapid strings of fire in competition... or because of the case geometry directing the hot gasses onto the leade??? or something else?

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...

It will last well over 1,000 rounds, used as a hunting rifle. Mine is doing well, probably 500 or so down the tube. It shows early throat erosion thru the Hawkeye, still as accurate as it ever was. It's a 26" Krieger.

My 26 Nosler with 400 rounds shows just a bit more erosion, I'm thinking it'll go 1,000.

Once I work up loads, they don't get shot as much. I have too many other rifles/projects to wear these out.

DF

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,749
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,749
You're sweetin the small stuff. smile

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
And, if you're worried, don't.

They making new barrels every day... grin

DF

IC B2

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by Dogger

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...


I could probably be happy with a 264 WM.....

IF IF I build any 6.5 it would be a 6.5X284.

Like D F, I hunt too many diff rifles to worry about burning a barrel out. That's the way I like it.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,391
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,391
Loaded to the same pressure and fired under the same circumstances, it's hard to believe the 6.5-284 and the 6.5 GAP would be much different as far as barrel life goes.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187
M
MZ5 Offline
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187
I believe that 6.5-284s wear out quickly for two main reasons. One is quite a bit of powder down a small hole. The other is that is has historically been a competition cartridge where people run it at _high_ pressures and need a replacement when they lose a couple to few tenths of precision at distance. Run it at 6.5-284 Norma pressure limits, and use it as a purely hunting rifle, and I believe you’ll get well more than your desired minimum life out of a barrel.

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,701
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,701
My old friend down in East Tx has been hunting with the same Mod 700 .264 Win Mag since the late 70s! He "might" shoot 20 rds a year and both he and his sons have used it to take some pretty long shots down pipeline Right of Ways and clearcuts. I'm old enough to remember all the naysayers about the .264 being a notorious barrel burner...compared to what though? As mentioned, there are "degrees of accuracy", only Benchresters and Competition shooters worry or have to deal with that issue, certainly not hunters. Don't worry about burning your barrel out in a hunting rifle, even if you shoot several hundred rounds a year. Just shoot slow and don't heat it up. Have a ball with it!

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Jim_Knight
My old friend down in East Tx has been hunting with the same Mod 700 .264 Win Mag since the late 70s! He "might" shoot 20 rds a year and both he and his sons have used it to take some pretty long shots down pipeline Right of Ways and clearcuts. I'm old enough to remember all the naysayers about the .264 being a notorious barrel burner...compared to what though? As mentioned, there are "degrees of accuracy", only Benchresters and Competition shooters worry or have to deal with that issue, certainly not hunters. Don't worry about burning your barrel out in a hunting rifle, even if you shoot several hundred rounds a year. Just shoot slow and don't heat it up. Have a ball with it!

+1

DF

IC B3

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
P
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
6.5x284 is a very good cartridge ,the 6.5x284 has a lot of bench shoots,yes it would burn out for benrest shooters all cartridges will sooner or later burn a barrel out. the 6.5x284 used only for hunting and some target practice will never burn out in your life time. I have the 6.5x284 in a Savage S.S. weather warrior and for just being a factory rifle its very accurate.i still would like to build a Ruger # 1 in a 6.5x284 with a bunx 26 inch barrel. good luck ,Pete53


LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697
Pete,

You sure seem to be a fan of those bunx barrels!


“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,228
I shoot a 6-284 which should be even harder on barrels than a 6.5..... 1800 rds down the bore and still shoots 5/8 or less at 100 yds. Hunting rifle


"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
P
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
Originally Posted by Azar
Pete,

You sure seem to be a fan of those bunx barrels!



yep ,here`s the deal one of the better machinist who also puts barrels on a lot of bench guns that do win including a couple of national titles at 1000 yd. benchrest. this fine machinist always mics all barrels before he starts and says bunx are one of the best plus he can get them faster too.i even had them make me 2 for my 257 weatherby Ruger no.1`s with same contour as what was on the no. 1`s new 7 mag barrels I took off,Bunx is very easy to work with.


LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
C
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
C
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,145
Originally Posted by Dogger

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...


You've got nothing to worry about.

If I shoot out a barrel I slap myself on the back and use it as an excuse to treat myself to a new one.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,834
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,834
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
And, if you're worried, don't.

They making new barrels every day... grin

DF


Exactly.

The 6.5x284 will not disappoint.


I never thought I'd grow up to be a grumpy old man, but I did, and I'm killin' it.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179

Originally Posted by pete53
Originally Posted by Azar
Pete,
You sure seem to be a fan of those bunx barrels!


.... with same contour as what was on the no. 1`s new 7 mag barrels I took off,Bunx is very easy to work with.



SWOOOSH ! ! right over his head. sleep

smile

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,112
D
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,112
Overbore cartridges burn barrels because they try to squeeze a large quantity of very hot gas down a small tube that does not have much surface area and volume.

Browning did some tests that they published that showed that the 22-250 tends to open up at about 1500 rounds. I don't know of any reason that the 6.5-284 would be worse than that.


Be not weary in well doing.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Denton - I like that. --^ ^ ^ ^


Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,891
Just don't try to shoot up all of your ammo up at the same time.

Space your shots and don't overheat the barrel.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
Had a 264 (can you say over-bore). When bbl got hot, I let it cool. We did not believe in much cleaning back then (1960's) but started cleaning regularly in 90's. Always got decent accuracy of an inch or so at 100 with handloaded ammo. Shot plenty enough for sighting-in and hunting including some ground squirrels. Heard all the "less than 1000 shots" stories but really didn't care. So, I can't imagine that 6.5-284 would be much different unless you shoot a lot or heat it up too much/often.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Mac284338
Had a 264 (can you say over-bore). When bbl got hot, I let it cool. We did not believe in much cleaning back then (1960's) but started cleaning regularly in 90's. Always got decent accuracy of an inch or so at 100 with handloaded ammo. Shot plenty enough for sighting-in and hunting including some ground squirrels. Heard all the "less than 1000 shots" stories but really didn't care. So, I can't imagine that 6.5-284 would be much different unless you shoot a lot or heat it up too much/often.

I’ve read it’s not overbore if you can find slow enough powder.

Even the 26 Nosler, with Vulcan cannon powders, may qualify as not being overbore.

That may take some selling.

DF

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
H
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
H
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Originally Posted by pete53
Originally Posted by Azar
Pete,

You sure seem to be a fan of those bunx barrels!



yep ,here`s the deal one of the better machinist who also puts barrels on a lot of bench guns that do win including a couple of national titles at 1000 yd. benchrest. this fine machinist always mics all barrels before he starts and says bunx are one of the best plus he can get them faster too.i even had them make me 2 for my 257 weatherby Ruger no.1`s with same contour as what was on the no. 1`s new 7 mag barrels I took off,Bunx is very easy to work with.



Pete, for the love of Heaven, do me a favor and just google "bunx barrel".


I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Originally Posted by Dogger
of the rapid strings of fire in competition... or because of the case geometry directing the hot gasses onto the leade??? or something else?

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...


By way of comparison, Does the long neck of the .25'06, or .270Win lead to longer throat life ?
Does the shallow tapered shoulder of these cases detract ? ( 17.5 degrees vs 30 or 40 degrees )

IOW : What case design features lead to longer throat life in high capacity -- smaller bore cartridges

High pressure causes higher temperatures which don't help throat longevity. also, Quick firing of long strings without cooling.

I like to practice follow up shots from field positions. 1st for accuracy, with 2 or 3 follow up/finishers delivered dynamically.


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer

I’ve read it’s not overbore if you can find slow enough powder.

DF


I hear ya on the concept.... I'd like to hear from some of our TECHees on that. I'm interested.
I also hear that a longer barrel comes into play.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 911
B
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
B
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 911

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
Hey there DF, I'll stick with overbore as I've come to know it regardless of any hairs being split...seems like damn near everything boils down to what the definition of is is...:-) Mac

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by 338Rules


By way of comparison, Does the long neck of the .25'06, or .270Win lead to longer throat life ?
Does the shallow tapered shoulder of these cases detract ? ( 17.5 degrees vs 30 or 40 degrees )

IOW : What case design features lead to longer throat life in high capacity -- smaller bore cartridges


338 - I feel certain by your post that you are aware that the 243 with its sloping shoulder angle AND short neck contributes to throat erosion.
*****I am NO expert by any stretch of the imagination. I've read about this over a long period of years.
You are correct too about rapid firing of long strings >> makes perfect sense.



Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer

I’ve read it’s not overbore if you can find slow enough powder.

DF

........... I'd like to [/b]hear from some of our TECHees on that.[b] I'm interested.
I also hear that a longer barrel comes into play.
Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
I have always wondered about the hunting accuracy barrel life and I think there is less information on this because most rifles used for hunting are not shot out. The 6.5 Gap or 6.5 SAUM when used for target shooting can get a little longer barrel life by using the larger capacity case to push the bullets at 6.5x284 velocities at a lower pressure and not trying for the next faster accuracy node. My guess is the 6.5x284 would be similar to the 25-06 for barrel life getting slightly less possibly due to the longer neck on the 25-06. But then the shoulder angle on the 06 could undo this advantage.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Mac284338
Hey there DF, I'll stick with overbore as I've come to know it regardless of any hairs being split...seems like damn near everything boils down to what the definition of is is...:-) Mac

I thought ole Bubba Clinton solve that one some time ago.

DF

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
M
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
M
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 931
+1

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
A few comments:

Yes, the case geometry of the 6.5/.284 contributes to throat erosion.

The majority of barrel erosion is caused by hot powder gas, and the effect naturally dissipates further from the case mouth--which anybody with a bore-scope will soon see. A longer neck protects more of the bore in front of the case.

Shoulder angle also has an effect: If it "funnels" the hot gas right around the mouth of the case (or a little in front), then the throat will erode quicker. This is exactly what the shoulder angle of the 6.5/.284 does. The shoulder/neck combination is even worse in the .243 Winchester.

Both of these effects have been demonstrated in considerable military research, undertaken because of a desire to make barrels last longer. They're also why a 6.5-06 barrel usually lasts longer than a 6.5/.284 barrel, and a 6.5-.270 should last a little longer yet--though the effect might be negated by what might be called the .270's "G-factor."

Another big factor is the powder itself. Double-based powders burn hotter, and very "progressive" double-based powders (which extend the burn further down the bore), tend to fry throats quicker. Which is part of the reason some very successful competitive shooters use single-based powders: They don't burn out throats as quickly, so an accurate barrel lasts longer.







“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Thnx M D

In a 284 Win ‘hunting’ rifle that’s not shot in rapid and prolonged sessions, should a hunter be concerned about short barrel life? I have a 284 W that will not be shot excessively so I don’t think I have anything to be concerned.


I have/had 1 Rem.M Six 270 W that I’ve shot and hunted a lot over several years. My Son has it now, but I noticed it’s accuracy is less than it was.
It still is more than accurate enuff for hunting and I ‘think’ throat erosion is the cause. I don’t know anyone with a bore scope so I’m not sure.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
RL-17 does well in my 6.5-284, prob not too kind to the throat.

Am thinking about using Vv n-570 in my 26 Nosler. That’s another hot one that has good performance, prob not throat friendly.

Oh well.

They make new barrels every day.

DF

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Originally Posted by jwall
Originally Posted by 338Rules


By way of comparison, Does the long neck of the .25'06, or .270Win lead to longer throat life ?
Does the shallow tapered shoulder of these cases detract ? ( 17.5 degrees vs 30 or 40 degrees )

IOW : What case design features lead to longer throat life in high capacity -- smaller bore cartridges


338 - I feel certain by your post that you are aware that the 243 with its sloping shoulder angle AND short neck contributes to throat erosion.
*****I am NO expert by any stretch of the imagination. I've read about this over a long period of years.
You are correct too about rapid firing of long strings >> makes perfect sense.




Yes, very aware of the throat issues, in .243 and 7Mag : similar geometry with 20 and 25 degree shoulders and short neck length.
I've never had either long enough to worry about longevity. They were accurate enough to attract attention from range buddies ...

The 6.5-284 puzzles me because it has a fairly steep 35 degree shoulder, But maybe the neck is not quite long enough, combined with
the typical high operating pressures, and long strings of fire in competition. Probably not a real problem in a hunting rifle.


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by 338Rules

The 6.5-284 puzzles me because it has a fairly steep 35 degree shoulder, But maybe the neck is not quite long enough, combined with
the typical high operating pressures, and long strings of fire in competition. Probably not a real problem in a hunting rifle.


Thanks and that’s what I thot per a hunting rifle.
I would only build a rifle for 2 cartridges in the 6.5 family, 6.5X284 ->-> 6.5X06.

The larger 6.5 cases burn too much powder for my taste NOT being a L R target shooter.
I don’t understand why the 264 WM isn’t more popular today — except that it’s NOT new.

Thnx

Jerry

Last edited by jwall; 02/18/18.

jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by jwall
[quote=338Rules]
I don’t understand why the 264 WM isn’t more popular today — except that it’s NOT new.
Thnx
Jerry

I think it was a combo of the lack of familiarity with 6.5, available bullets and powder of that era.

Maybe how Winchester rolled it out and marketed it.

DF

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,811
J
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Sleepy
Campfire 'Bwana
J
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,811
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by jwall
[quote=338Rules]
I don’t understand why the 264 WM isn’t more popular today — except that it’s NOT new.
Thnx
Jerry

I think it was a combo of the lack of familiarity with 6.5, available bullets and powder of that era.

Maybe how Winchester rolled it out and marketed it.

DF


When the 264 win rolled out the gun writers of the day bashed as a barrel burn and never touted its true attributes.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by jwall
[quote=338Rules]
I don’t understand why the 264 WM isn’t more popular today — except that it’s NOT new.
Thnx
Jerry

I think it was a combo of the lack of familiarity with 6.5, available bullets and powder of that era.

Maybe how Winchester rolled it out and marketed it.

DF


When the 264 win rolled out the gun writers of the day bashed as a barrel burn and never touted its true attributes.

I’m old enough to remember that.

The .264 WM was cutting edge and as in the business world, cutting edge can become “bleeding edge”.

DF

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
D
Dogger Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
A few comments:

Yes, the case geometry of the 6.5/.284 contributes to throat erosion.

The majority of barrel erosion is caused by hot powder gas, and the effect naturally dissipates further from the case mouth--which anybody with a bore-scope will soon see. A longer neck protects more of the bore in front of the case.

Shoulder angle also has an effect: If it "funnels" the hot gas right around the mouth of the case (or a little in front), then the throat will erode quicker. This is exactly what the shoulder angle of the 6.5/.284 does. The shoulder/neck combination is even worse in the .243 Winchester.

Both of these effects have been demonstrated in considerable military research, undertaken because of a desire to make barrels last longer. They're also why a 6.5-06 barrel usually lasts longer than a 6.5/.284 barrel, and a 6.5-.270 should last a little longer yet--though the effect might be negated by what might be called the .270's "G-factor."

Another big factor is the powder itself. Double-based powders burn hotter, and very "progressive" double-based powders (which extend the burn further down the bore), tend to fry throats quicker. Which is part of the reason some very successful competitive shooters use single-based powders: They don't burn out throats as quickly, so an accurate barrel lasts longer.






single base powders... Hodgdon data site shows IMR 4350 48.2 grains pushing a 130 accubond to 2935 fps in a 24" barrel... Nosler shows 50 grains achieving 3023 fps in a 24"barrel... pretty much what a 270 will do with 5 more grains of powder, and a whole lot more factory choices... hard to punk the 270 for a hunting rifle...

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
D
Dogger Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
i don't see a 6.5x284 in my future. lol

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,107
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,107

I run 130 Berger VLD's at 3150 in a 26" barrel with H-4831-SC......

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
jwp,

While some writers of the day mentioned the .264 might burn out barrels quicker than other rounds (especially Elmer Keith, who hated the entire concept of the cartridge) I suspect the two major reasons it didn't do all that well were:

1) The introduction of the 7mm Remington Magnum in 1962, only three years after the .264.

Back then muzzle velocity and bullet weight were the major measures of a big game round. Very few hunters shot beyond 400 actual yards (though plenty bragged about longer ranges), and muzzle velocity has far more influence on trajectory to 400 than ballistic coefficient. Very few hunters used "premium" bullets, because the Nosler Partition was the only one available and had to be handloaded, thus more bullet weight was considered necessary for big game, especially game larger than deer. The 7mm offered 150 and 175 grain factory loads, both heavier than the .264's 140 grains.

Also, various enthusiastic wildcatters (including influential gun writer Warren Page) had been fooling with 7mm magnums for years. Weatherby already offered a commercial version, but both Weatherby rifles and ammo were expensive. The new Remington 700 the 7mm Magnum appeared in had a kind of toned-down Weatherby-style stock, but both the rifle and ammo cost a lot less than Weatherby's. The Remington combination fulfilled an already existing demand, at a time where even most rifle loonies weren't clamoring for a 6.5mm magnum, since at the time 6.5mm was considered a rather weird "foreign" caliber.

2) Eventually reports appeared that the .264's factory 140-grain load often didn't reach the listed velocity of 3200 fps, even in the long-barreled Model 70 "Westerner." The number 6 Speer manual, published in 1964, published a list of factory ammo chronographed in their lab. In the 26-inch barrel of a Westerner, Remington 140-grain ammo got 3025 fps and Winchester 140's 3139 fps. In the same list, Federal, Remington and Winchester 130-grain .270 Winchester ammo all came reasonably close to the advertised velocity of 3140 fps--from a 22-inch barrel.

There also weren't any high-BC hunting bullets back then; instead there were basic flat-based, softpoint spitzers. As a result of the similar velocities, the .264 didn't shoot noticeably flatter than the .270 at typical hunting ranges. I know this partly because, years later, I owned and hunted with a .264 Westerner.

Between the established .270 Winchester and the new, popular 7mm Remington Magnum the .264 didn't have much chance. Now it might, but powders have advanced so much the 26 Nosler and 6.5-.300 beat the .264's velocities pretty easily.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
D
Dogger Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Last edited by Dogger; 02/18/18. Reason: spelling
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF

Last edited by Dirtfarmer; 02/18/18.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF


25, 30, 35, 40 degrees ; Is 30 really optimum, or is that also case capacity, bore, and neck length inter-dependant ?

Yes, Remington Really Pooched the Screw on the SAUMs . sob

I hope these 300 RCM / 6.5 PRC cartridge intros don't follow the 7mm WSM and the SAUMs.
Sure looks like the nifty little 338 RCM is done.

Last edited by 338Rules; 02/18/18. Reason: Softening my TONE re Remington

History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
D
Dogger Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF


25, 30, 35, 40 degrees ; Is 30 really optimum, or is that also case capacity, bore, and neck length inter-dependant ?

Yes, Remington Really Pooched the Screw on the SAUMs . sob

I hope these 300 RCM / 6.5 PRC cartridge intros don't follow the 7mm WSM and the SAUMs.
Sure looks like the nifty little 338 RCM is done.

surely the 26 degree shoulder of the 6mm Remington is optimum (evil grin)

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
Tests in pressure laboratories do indicate that 30-degree shoulders result in more consistent muzzle velocities than shoulder angles much smaller or larger. These have also been confirmed on targets in various ways. Probably the most popular short-range benchrest cartridge before the .222 Remington appeared was the .219 Wasp, a shortened and "improved" .219 Zipper case with a 30-degree shoulder. The .222's shoulder is 23 degrees, but it was blown out of the water by the .22/6mm PPC's--which have 30-degree shoulders, arrived at by considerable accuracy experimentation by Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell.

The list of "accuracy" cartridges with 30-degree shoulders is pretty extensive--.22 and 6mm BR Remington, 6XC, 6x47 and 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Grendel--but the angle doesn't have to be exactly 30. The .22-250, for instance, has a 28-degree shoulder, as do the .223 and .243 WSSM's. The .25 WSSM has a 30-degree shoulder, for whatever reason, and while the SAUM rounds never did well in their original form, necking down to 6.5mm resulted in another very accurate cartridge.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Dogger
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF


25, 30, 35, 40 degrees ; Is 30 really optimum, or is that also case capacity, bore, and neck length inter-dependant ?

Yes, Remington Really Pooched the Screw on the SAUMs . sob

I hope these 300 RCM / 6.5 PRC cartridge intros don't follow the 7mm WSM and the SAUMs.
Sure looks like the nifty little 338 RCM is done.

surely the 26 degree shoulder of the 6mm Remington is optimum (evil grin)

6mm Rem a good round, a victim of Rem marketing prowess.

Better round than .243, but you’d never figure that out based on sales.

DF

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by Dogger

single base powders... Hodgdon data site shows IMR 4350 48.2 grains pushing a 130 accubond to 2935 fps in a 24" barrel... Nosler shows 50 grains achieving 3023 fps in a 24"barrel... pretty much what a 270 will do with 5 more grains of powder, and a whole lot more factory choices... hard to punk the 270 for a hunting rifle...


Dogger, not to bash you...

I've been to the Hodgd site many many Xs for different cartridges.

ALL I'm going to say is Hodgdon lists of Charges AND Velocities is..... suspect ! My Oehler does NOT verify many of their stats.


Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by jwp475


When the 264 win rolled out the gun writers of the day bashed as a barrel burn and never touted its true attributes.


Not only do I remember that but between '86-'90 I have a friend who was considering a 264 WM and I told him that it had a rep for burning barrels. shocked

He got a 270 WBY Mag instead...? smirk

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
S
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
S
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,124
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF

I'm feeling there was a niche for the caliber and velocity that rifle and ammo companies didn't want to put money into because of the mediocre popularity of existing chamberings, and names associated with other companies as in "Remington" for example. But then a new one came along with a neutral name and is almost as fast as a .260 Ackley Improved and ammo and rifle makers didn't want to miss out. And as others have mentioned Hornady (not a rifle maker) was involved.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,015
D
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
D
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,015
First off, I am a 6.5-284 slut. I have used it competitively in 1000 BR and for most of my longer range shooting for the past 20 years or so. I have used R17 almost exclusively in my last two barrels. Barrel 1 on this rifle lasted only 500ish rounds before toast. I shot 130 Norma Diamonds almost to exclusion of other bullets. 50 grains of R17 would push them 3200 fps. I shot a lot of 1 1/2-2" 500 yard groups with that bullet. Not very reliable on game I found out.

I got 800-900 rounds out of my BR rifles and I used mostly VV N160. I suspect that I could have gone over 1000 with 4831 or 4350- who knows.

R17 is VERY hard on barrels.

Just chambered up a 6x47L and I will avoid R17 in this rifle. The 6x47L lets me seat bullets however I want with a short magazine.

The 6.5-284 lets me seat bullets however I want with a long magazine. It is inherently accurate and easy to find loads for. A 6.5-06 is as fast but in my experience, a little tougher to find great loads.

the 243 is the worst barrel burner of all- even with single based powders.

30 degree shoulders seem to optimize accuracy. The 6PPC guys pretty much solved that riddle. Why mess with success?

I have a 260AI that I love. It is very accurate and easy to load for and nips on the heels of the 6.5-284 BUT you have to fire-form and it has that 40 degree shoulder.m Next one I do is with a 30 degree shoulder.


NRA Benefactor Member

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by StrayDog
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF

I'm feeling there was a niche for the caliber and velocity that rifle and ammo companies didn't want to put money into because of the mediocre popularity of existing chamberings, and names associated with other companies as in "Remington" for example. But then a new one came along with a neutral name and is almost as fast as a .260 Ackley Improved and ammo and rifle makers didn't want to miss out. And as others have mentioned Hornady (not a rifle maker) was involved.

Hornady listened to the users, their customers, took notes, went to work and built a round that answered the questions, solved the issues presented.

They didn't just roll out and hype a round they thought might work.

DF

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
jwp,



1) The introduction of the 7mm Remington Magnum in 1962, only three years after the .264.



You forgot to mention the 7 & 7 factor.

Didn't read the entire post but don't forget the Swede it can come very close to the 6.5x284 with a proven long barrel life. Only downside if you want to call it that is it needs a medium or long action to really shine same as for the x.284 cartridges. And if you blow the shoulder out to 30 degrees you have the best of all things 6.5 in my opinion. I keep hankering for a big 6.5 Nosler, Weatherby etc. but what I would really gain over the Swede is mostly smoke and mirrors as far as a hunting rifle in my hands.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Originally Posted by Tejano
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
jwp,



1) The introduction of the 7mm Remington Magnum in 1962, only three years after the .264.



You forgot to mention the 7 & 7 factor.

Didn't read the entire post but don't forget the Swede it can come very close to the 6.5x284 with a proven long barrel life. Only downside if you want to call it that is it needs a medium or long action to really shine same as for the x.284 cartridges. And if you blow the shoulder out to 30 degrees you have the best of all things 6.5 in my opinion. I keep hankering for a big 6.5 Nosler, Weatherby etc. but what I would really gain over the Swede is mostly smoke and mirrors as far as a hunting rifle in my hands.

I have a 26 Nosler and enjoy shooting it.

When I go hunting, I'm more likely to grab my Swede, Creed or 7-08. They're handier and do what needs doing.

I think for LR shooting, the faster round helps with cross wind. Drop is less an issue now with rangefinders and ballistic scopes.

DF

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,282
M
Campfire Ranger
Online Content
Campfire Ranger
M
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,282
Originally Posted by Dogger
of the rapid strings of fire in competition... or because of the case geometry directing the hot gasses onto the leade??? or something else?

i am interested in the 6.5x284 for hunting... hoping a barrel could last well past 1000 rounds...


I'd take something else on a prairie dog shoot - just sayin' smile smile smile


I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,822
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
...a 6.5-06 barrel usually lasts longer than a 6.5/.284 barrel, and a 6.5-.270 should last a little longer yet...


Which is precisely why I am going to try the 6.5-.280 AI, in an attempt to stave off throat erosion for as long as I can.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell



Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
P
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 8,179
I own a bat action ,bunx barrel 6.5x284 for competition and it is very accurate,i also own a 6.5x284 hunting rifle and this rifle which is a savage weather warrior this rifle is also very accurate. I don`t think most people will ever wear out a hunting rifle barrel used mostly for hunting. yes the 6.5x284 is a great cartridge to hunt with ,but here is the down side of a 6.5x284> ammo may be hard to find,so you better learn to handload. if you do not want to handload your own ammo stick with a normal cartridge 308 win.,30-06 ,243 win,270 win., 7 mag rem,300 win mag,there maybe a couple other ones too, but buy what I call grocery store ammo the ones I mention are easier to find when needed.there is nothing worst than when you go on a hunt ,you forget your ammo and when you get to the area you wanted to hunt and you can`t find any ammo because you have a not to common of caliber. Pete53


LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Originally Posted by Azar
Pete,
You sure seem to be a fan of those bunx barrels!


I guess 'bunx' is still making barrels!

Originally Posted by pete53
I own a bat action ,bunx barrel 6.5x284 for competition and it is very accurate,


smirk

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
M
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
M
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 59,898
In my experience Brux barrels are pretty good, but might have to try a Bunx!


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
MD

Please let me know if you find a bunx barrel on sale.

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,699
M
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
M
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,699
Bunk barrel maybe.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,107
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,107
Originally Posted by mathman
Bunk barrel maybe.

Or bung if it's got a hole in it.......

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
D
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
D
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 36,822
Got a couple of those barrels, myself.

DF

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by pete53
I own a bat action ,bunx barrel 6.5x284 for competition and it is very accurate


Pete,

What is the information of the gunsmith that you use that installs your bunx barrels? I tried googling bunx barrels but all it comes up with is this discussion thread and a single on Apple Music title "Mek it Bunx Up (feat. Marcy Chin)" - Single by DeeWunn. Google suggests I meant "Brux barrel" instead. Stupid Google!


“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
T
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
T
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Darn the secret about the Bunx is out, now there will be months long waits involved.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
I'm willing to bet that ONE didn't get the memo !!

Jerry


jwall- *** 3100 guy***

A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap

Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
3
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,363
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
Originally Posted by 338Rules
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Dogger
what puzzles me is how the "the best designed" cartridges often don't make it... for example the 300 RSAUM with 30 degree shoulder should technically be better than the 300 WSM if the "30 degree is optimal" is a truism... yet because it runs 50 fps slower than the 300 WSM and came out a year later it is a has-been... the 6.5 Creedmoor on the other hand has that optimal 30 degree shoulder, and runs slower than the 260, but no one cares, and it is beating the pants off all other short action 6.5s...

Could be “Remington” is the reason RSAUM took a back seat to WSM. They have a track record, screwing up roll outs and marketing.

Creed has a lot more going for it than 30*. Hornady knows how to build and market a new round. They on the other end of the spectrum from Remington.

DF


25, 30, 35, 40 degrees ; Is 30 really optimum, or is that also case capacity, bore, and neck length inter-dependant ?

Yes, Remington Really Pooched the Screw on the SAUMs . sob

I hope these 300 RCM / 6.5 PRC cartridge intros don't follow the 7mm WSM and the SAUMs.
Sure looks like the nifty little 338 RCM is done.

surely the 26 degree shoulder of the 6mm Remington is optimum (evil grin)

6mm Rem a good round, a victim of Rem marketing prowess.

Better round than .243, but you’d never figure that out based on sales.

DF



26 28 30 Degrees, with "adequate" Neck Length - Hmmm we seem to be zeroing in on something ...

All these cartridges with the steeper Shoulder Angles, and short Neck Length are compromised, just by trying to squeeze into a short action.

6.5 x .280 RCBS ( 28 ) perfect LA 6.5 140 Hurler


History May Not Repeat, But it Rhymes.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
660 members (12308300, 16Racing, 1234, 163bc, 06hunter59, 80 invisible), 2,679 guests, and 1,227 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,612
Posts18,398,407
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.161s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 1.1771 MB (Peak: 1.6588 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:12:48 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS