Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 6.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer

I'm thinking of buying a beautiful little M-S carbine. It has a SN in the 25XXX range and is marked 6.5 NORM. I'm going in the morning to make a close inspection of it and decide whether to buy or not. It should be a 6,5X54 MS caliber, but that NORM has me wondering.....

Can any of you M-S fans provide some input?

Not sure if it's ok to link to other forums, but check out http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...0213&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1.. Or google 6.5 norm schoenauer. Sounds like during a period of time the 6.5 NORM, 8mm NORM was common

I've been looking for one forever. Hard to find one that is un-altered and even they go for crazy money. To my eyes, prettiest rifle ever made. Lets some some pics one you can.

I believe the 6.5 X 54 NORM means that the cartridge dimensions were "Normalized". I don't know if that was because of CIP or Austrian proof laws. My suspicion is it will depend on the date of proof of the rifle. As with our SAAMI the goal of CIP was to set a standard. The NORM stamp was not uncommon on some German firearms chambered to older cartridges, what I don't know for certain is whether or not Austria ever adopted a similar proof. I've never read of one being adopted by Austria but coming from me that doesn't carry much weight.

If the rifle is decent and worth the money the NORM stamp would not put me off it. As blair mentioned, decent, un-mucked with, early M/S rifles aren't exactly crawling out of the woodwork these days. The 1903 seems to be the one that has suffered the most alterations which I suppose is because it was very popular in the 6.5 cartridge. The 1905, '08 and '10 rifles appear to be more available in their original condition. With them, unless you handload, ammo for a couple of them can be a challenge. I have an '08 and the 8 X 56 M/S ammo from Buffalo Arms, made from 35 Whelen brass, was too hot. I pulled the bullets and took two grains out and it was ok. Not very accurate either but it was a gift from my oldest son and I ended up with some brass....then I decided to make my own from -06 cases.

I like old Mausers but I'd sure hate to have to choose between them and the early M/S rifles. They are sweet. For hunting I'd take either over anything being made today....well, I have.

sharps, I am a Mauser guy too, but this thing just jumped on me when I saw it. Went ahead and bought it this morning. Seems to be a standard 1903 except that claw mounts and a Hensoldt Dialyt scope have been added. It's in good shape with only minor handling marks in the wood. I think the stamp under the wood indicate a 1939 manufacture date. sharps, I hope to take it over to Mike (GGCA) Ford's place Saturday morning and let him educate me on it.














[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Hook67/M-S%20%202_zpsrt65ppig.jpg[/img]

Be still my beating heart!

Fantastic rifle

Sure wish I would have been smarter back in the day & kept mine.
they solve the light gun dilemma w/ class!

Wow Hook! If it is as good internally as it appears externally that's a nice piece, especially if it is all original!! Got to the sexiest rifle ever mass produced. You are indeed fortunate to have the rings and scope, what a plus! My '03 has the claw bases but alas, the scope and rings did not accompany the rifle. Might be on the lookout for some Hornady, 6.5mm, 160 gr. round nose. They cycle through the magazine like a hot knife through warm butter.

I believe you're correct about the 1939 proof date and it was proofed in Vienna. Mike will know!!! That's for certain!

The Germans/Austrians sure knew how to complicate scope mounting. How do those old scopes hold up? That is a beautiful rifle. One day maybe if I get lucky.

This Hensoldt is as clear as a bell, but the post reticle is 'fuzzy'. That is, it appears to have frazzled somewhat around the edges. It also is pretty blunt at the top, not ending in a sharp point like most posts but rather a more rounded top. I will see how I can hit with it, but may be forced to send it off to get a new reticle in it.

Made by Josef Mischitz,engraved by Albin Obiltshnig

Dang, sqweeler.....that certainly put the icing on the cake!

blairvt
The Hensoldt on my 1903 maintained 0 for as long as I owned that rifle. German #1 reticle.

My favorite deer rifle!

1950 mdl MS 6.5x54:




MS 6.5x68S:

MS 7x57 Mauser:

Another beauty!

Would love to hear what y'all are using for deer medicine. I see one above shooting bug holes with X bullets. It was my understanding that these things favored the heavy RN bullets. However, I have zero experience with them and can't even say that I know anyone that has used one.

I have one I made on a Breda action. It feeds the 156 and 160 grain RN bullets beautifully.
I got it from a friend that brought it up from Arizona as a barreled action. The old barrel was bent and totally rusted out. I made a new barrel from a Green Mountain blank and made my own stock, trigger guard, bolt handle and so on. I have found it refuses to feed spitzers of any weight, or seated to any depth but RN bullets feed perfectly. Do any of your 1903 or variants have the same issue?
I have a friend in Iowa who told me the early military 03s were all that way. I guess the feed ramp on the commercial rifles and even on later production military rifles had a bit more steel left, so the bullets would point a bit higher as they exit the magazine. Again I am just telling what I was told and I don;'t know for sure myself. Any other men here know if this is true?
What I know for sure on this rifle is that it only feeds round nose bullets.

I have taken it hunting a few times now, but as luck would have it I have found very few deer or elk to shoot when I had it with me.
Over a bench with the irons it shoots as well as I can shoot with my old eyes now-days. I have no idea how well it would do with a scope because it's an "irons only rifle".

At 100 yards I can manage about 2.2 MOA is the sky is clear and I have good light. I have a folding rear sight on it with 200 and 300 yard blades too, but at 300 I do well to hit a 6" gong. Getting old ain't for kids. Not good for your eyes (or anything else either)

I have used the 160 grain Sierras (now discontinued) 160 grain Hornadys (limited production) and ther PPU 156 grain bullets in the little carbine, and the PPU bullet may become my standard. It shoots as well as the Sierra or Hornady and I can buy them easily. I have not shot any game at all with them however, so if anyone here has used one I'd love to hear about the results on game.

My load shows 2245 FPS over my chronograph at the muzzle.

It's been a while since I played with a M-S but the two 1903's I had behaved like Mr. Szihn's- RN bullets only would feed reliably. When hunting I would load a 140 or 129 spitzer up the spout with a couple 160 RN's down. Never needed more than one shot so I can't attest to my approach. I never shot a deer with the 160's.

I used a M1908 for many years too, chambered for 8x57 not 8x56. (I'm informed that they made a few in 8x57- I had no reason to believe it was ever altered.) That rascal would feed anything I put in it, RN's or spitzers. I mainly used run-of-the-mill Sierra 170 SP's and it never left me down. It had a Lyman cocking piece sight that was a treat to use too. My only complaint was it was kind of brutal with loads generating more oomph than mild 8x57 factory loads.

The M1952 .257 Roberts also fed any shape/weight bullet with alacrity also.

Jayzus, I gotta get another Mannlicher-Schoenauer!

Just picked this one up today, 1956 in 257 Roberts!

Beautiful rifles!